[OOC] Den of Thieves

[Dragoderian]

Hah! Damn straight. I was waiting for a strip from that to show up.

[Moridain]

Well, we aren't going for Fractional BAB, and we are rolling d8+10 for stats, so I think the DM will choose the more powerful, non-fractional option for saves as well.

Personally it seems a bit worrying to me, but oh well.

Hmm. I am tempted to just stay with Druid then. It is still pretty awesome, even with Wildshape already being taken on the other side of the gestult.

[Yuul]

Whew, finally finished with the spending of nearly(I kept some) 88,000gp...

[Dragoderian]

Originally Posted by Haelmaxan

Yes, I do. I rarely run any low level ones any more.

I'm counting on it being a monster.

It's going to be like Ocean's Eleven with swords. And the toppling of an empire...

I recalled this. Who gets to have the team named after them?

For that matter, who do you think you characters would be?

Just to pass the time.

[morALEXception]

Rafe could quite possibly take the role of the acrobat. He'll have mad climbing and jumping skills, plus, full ranks in open lock...

[Mnemnosyne]

Ok, key questions:

Precisely how many experience points do we start with?

Do your craft system modifications apply to non-artificers? If so, need exact rules and what we have to work with.

[Mnemnosyne]

Originally Posted by Dragoderian

Eh, you'd have a high save progression but near-zero actual skills.

And think of the XP penalties.

Oh, there wouldn't actually be any exp penalties, since your classes would still be within one class level of each other. A Barbarian 2/Fighter 2/Ranger 2/Paladin2 would have a fort save of +12. Will save would be +0 though, unless using fractionals in which case it would be 2 and 1/3.

You could keep throwing base classes at that, and as long as you never level to 3 in any one class, you'd never have an exp penalty. For melee characters, this is actually a decent way to level since they tend to have a lot of good class features at level 1 and 2. It's a hell of a lot better than taking a lot of melee classes (like fighter) straight through.

Fighter gets 2 bonus feats, barbarian gets rage, fast movement, and uncanny dodge, ranger gets more bonus feats and a favored enemy, paladin gets the saving throw bonus, and all those classes advance base attack bonus.

Paladin 2/Knight 2/Fighter 2/Ranger 2/Swashbuckler 2/Barbarian 2/Hexblade 2/Duskblade 2/is a far better character than a Fighter 16, for instance, especially if you are using fractional saves. He's got a +16 BAB, and he's actually got some decent class features. Of course, it's not a great character overall, but it is better than taking a lot of classes single-class, and it has no exp penalty.

The exp penalty system is actually one of the stupidest systems ever, it encourages rather than discourages 2-level dipping.

[dirkoth]

more questions for the bosses:

Is Ghulhan something you become, or something you are born? The answer will determine a bit of my backstory, my route of progression, etc.. Was Sanre a human who died and became a Ghulhan, or was she born a Ghulhan and worked her way into Paladinhood?

Can we take our level adjustment from both sides, or just one? ie, with an LA +2, can I be an 11th level Pally/Cleric, or must I be a 10/12?

and i am interested in the DM's decisions on the gestalting argument, as well. It definitely impacts the orders I take my levels in, if they go one direction, and doesn't impact them if they go the other.

[JHouck8390]

First: Can everyone add spoiler tags in their Character thread posts?

Second: Can we have a standard format for comparing certain qualities of each character? I propose the following (spoiler tagged) to be added at the end of every character posting in the roster thread:

 

Standard Format BAB: Ref: Will: Fort: Spell-like Abilities: (List abilities and their respective uses/day) Spells Known: (List spells known and small descriptor) Spells Per Day: (Including bonus spells slots) Items Purchased: Gold Remaining:

[Yuul]

Not a bad Idea... It'd let us know what we each have and thus make for easier planning.

[Whispers]

I am pretty much done with my sheet. Just need to finalize some skills and items.

[JHouck8390]

I would really appreciate someone looking over my skill point allotment. I'm not very confident in it at all...

Also:

Standard Format: Quick Glance   BAB: +9/+4 Ref: +12 Will: +16 Fort: +12 Spell-like Abilities: Teleport 3/day   Dimension Door 3/day   Fireball 3/day   Chain Lightning 3/day   Lightning Bolt 3/day Spells Known: Message, Open/Close, Light, Detect Poison, Read Magic, Mending, Flare, Daze, Dancing Lights   Endure Elements, Mount, Comprehend Languages, Detect Secret Doors, Charm Person   Detect Thoughts, Hideous Laughter, Fire Burst, Scorching Ray, Knock   Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Deep Slumber, Fly   Dimension Door, Phantasmal Killer, Greater Invisibility   Teleport, Dominate Person   Chain Lightning Spells Per Day: 0 Level : 6   1st Level : 9   2nd Level : 8   3rd Level : 6   4th Level : 7   5th Level : 6   6th Level : 3 Items Purchased: Ring of Sustenance   Headband of Charisma (+5)   Half-cape of Resistance (+5 to Saves)   Wand Bracelet   Wand of Fireball (CL 10; 50 charges)   Scroll of Gentle Repose (CL 11)   Elixir of Truth x 10   Potion of Darkvision x 3   Potion of Levitate x 3   Potion of Spider Climb x 3   Potion of Invisibility x 3 Gold Remaining: 3g 1s 2c

[Haelmaxan]

DM's final ruling: Your first two base classes determine your bab, will, reflex, and fort saves. If for example you are a wizard//rogue for 1st level and at 6th level you take a class that gives full bab, then you have to sacrifice that because you began as a wizard//rogue instead of a wizard//fighter or rogue//fighter. I know this could potentially suck for some builds, and for that I will allow players to tweak their builds for optimal efficiency. This is the nature of gestalt and this is how Risen and I agree to handle things. This is also to keep potential prestige craziness from wreaking havoc on our brains.

Good idea with the spoilerbutton thing JHouck.

Ghulhan are something you become. It is a magical process, divine in nature as opposed to arcane. You see I'm going to implement some new deities for this game, but they will have an unexpected impact on the game. As players only dirkoth will need to know about these other deities. It will be his character's secret to bear until *things* happen that expose everything.

Sure, you can put a level adjustment on both sides.

For non artificers crafting, you will still get an allotment of crafting points like an artificer but with half the points an artificer gets. If you need the points guide, then ask me or our resident artificer.

dirkoth: you may use the alternate class abilities that you described earlier.

[morALEXception]

Here's my tweaks for the Standard format... below is the format so you can copy and paste. Its showing the text because there is an extra space before the ending "]" of each command, so just close them up and it should work...

Standard Format Name: Rafe "Fang" Vander Race: Half-Vampire Human Criminal Occupation: Killer Alignment: LE (can possibly change to LN, or even LG in game...) Classes: Half Vampire LA +2, Scout 4, Rogue 6// Monk 5, Dragon Desendant 7   HP: 70/70 Str: 24 Dex: 22 Con: 14 Int: 14 Wis: 16 Cha: 14 Melee/Grapple: +16/+20 Primary Attack: unarmed strike/+16 atk roll/2d6+8 dmg/x2 crit/bludgeoning AC: 29 Flat: 23 Touch: 23 Fort: 14 Ref: 17 Will: 15   Special Qualities: Blood Dependency DR 5/silver or magic Fast Healing 1 (When at half HP or lower, but above 0) Resistance cold 5 and electricity 5 Darkvision Monk Abilities- Unarmed damage 2d6, AC bonus +2, Unarmored Speed +40 ft Evasion Still Mind Ki Strike (magic) Slow Fall, 20 ft Uncanny dodge Purity of body Spell Reflection Dungeon Specialist Trackless Step Spell Sense +2 Slippery Mind Uncanny Bravery Rapid Calling Item Granted: Do not need to eat/drink Only need 2 hours of sleep Invisible to darkvision Gains concealment in shadowy areas   Special Abilities: Slam Attack Blood Drain Charm Gaze Children of the Night (1/day) Draconic Fist (5/day) Flurry of Blows Skirmish (+3d6, +2 AC => +5d6, +4 AC w/ improved Skirmish) Trapfinding Sneak Attack (+3d6) Ancestor -Rampaging Ancestor -Subtle Ancestor -Eldritch Ancestor -Enduring Ancestor Ancestoral Lore Item Granted: +2 to skirmish damage extra attack after skirmish (2/day)   Skills: Balance +13 Climb +29 Concentration +10 Hide +23 Jump +24 Knowledge (Arcana) +3 Listen +22 Move Silently +23 Open Lock +23 Search +18 Spot +22 Tumble +23 Skill Tricks: Spot the weak point Acrobatic Backstab Leaping Climber Walk the Walls Wall Jumper Speedy Ascent   Items Purchased: Glaring Eye Peripat of Wisdom +2 Bracers of Armor +4 Gloves of Dexterity +2 Ring of Sustenance Ring of the Darkhidden Vest of Resistance +3 Belt of Strength +2 Skirmisher Boots Shadow Veil Portable Foxhole Immovable Rods x2 Quiver of Ehlonna Smokesticks x3 Sunrods x3 Master thieves' tools Gold Remaining:324 gp

[FIELDSET="Standard Format"]
Name:
Race:
Criminal Occupation:
Alignment:
Classes:
[SPOILERBUTTON="Base Stats"]HP: /
Str: Dex: Con: Int: Wis: Cha:
Melee/Grapple:
Primary Attack:
AC: Flat: Touch:
Ref: Will: Fort:[/SPOILERBUTTON]
[SPOILERBUTTON="Qualities"]Special Qualities:

Item Granted:[/SPOILERBUTTON]
[SPOILERBUTTON="Abilities"]Special Abilities: (List abilities and their respective uses/day)

Item Granted:[/SPOILERBUTTON]
[SPOILERBUTTON="Skills and Skill Tricks"]Skills:
Skill Tricks:[/SPOILERBUTTON]
[SPOILERBUTTON="Spells"]Spells Known: (List spells known and small descriptor)
Spells Per Day: (Including bonus spells slots)[/SPOILERBUTTON]
[SPOILERBUTTON="Items and Gold"]Items Purchased:
Gold Remaining:[/SPOILERBUTTON]
[SPOILERBUTTON="notes"][/SPOILERBUTTON][/FIELDSET]

[Benoni]

Originally Posted by Haelmaxan

DM's final ruling: Your first two base classes determine your bab, will, reflex, and fort saves. If for example you are a wizard//rogue for 1st level and at 6th level you take a class that gives full bab, then you have to sacrifice that because you began as a wizard//rogue instead of a wizard//fighter or rogue//fighter. I know this could potentially suck for some builds, and for that I will allow players to tweak their builds for optimal efficiency. This is the nature of gestalt and this is how Risen and I agree to handle things. This is also to keep potential prestige craziness from wreaking havoc on our brains.

Really? So, if, for example, a character started at first with Fighter/Bard, and then multiclassed into entirely different things for the rest of the build, they would get full Base Attack and full Saves for the entire build?