Ask the Sage: Noob Rules vol. 2 - Page 6

vampirehunter42 · #76 01-27-2005, 04:44 AM

The truth is I was making a bard for a NPC and began to think about that and my clumsy fingers trying to play anything harder than a trombone and baritone and started to cringe. And I have played them and the sound was not that great. But I do agree with everyone and I mean even the people who have not replied yet so let’s just stop worrying about this.

Loozer · #77 01-31-2005, 03:26 PM

Here's another question about bardic music. Reading the PHB hasn't given me a clear idea on what the rule should be:

Can a bard using the Perform (sing) skill (ie, not having his hand full with an instrument) do other actions while maintaining his bardic music, providing he makes a successful concentration check? Like can he shoot a bow, or engage in melee combat? Can he get something out of his pack? Can he do nothing but move around? Does anyone know what actions the actual rules allow a bard to perform while he performs?

Thanks.

Medesha · #78 01-31-2005, 03:48 PM

Bardic music is a standard action to start. If the particular description of the bardic music ability says it requires concentration to maintain (such as fascinate), that means he must take a standard action each round to concentrate. That leaves him a move or move-equivalent action to do whatever he likes (draw something out of his pack, light a torch, open a door.)

Even if the ability doesn't require concentration (such as inspire courage), the bard cannot cast spells, activate magic items by spell completion (such as scrolls), or activate magic items by command word (such as some wands.) This is listed in the second paragraph after "Bardic Music" on page 29 of the PHB.

Bards do not have to make concentration checks to start or maintain their bardic music. Using or maintaining bardic music does not provoke an attack of opportunity.

For example, let's say that Gimble the gnomish bard is in a room with some orcs. The orcs are surprised to see him, but Gimble starts singing a song to distract them. He takes a standard action to activate his fascinate ability. The orcs fail their saves and do nothing but listen to him.

The next round, Gimble continues to sing (his standard to maintain concentration) and moves to the door (move). The round after, he continues to sing (standard) and opens the door (move equivalent). The round after that, he continues to sing (standard) steps through the door (5' step) and closes it (move equivalent.) Then he runs like hell.

Now let's say Gimble runs back to the party and finds them in combat with some goblins. He immediately launches into a rousing battle tune (standard action to inspire courage) and draws his weapon (move equivalent). The next round he keeps singing (takes no action since inspire courage does not require concentration), moves to the nearest goblin (move) and stabs it (standard.) Then he just moves around singing and stabbing until all the goblins are dead.

Loozer · #79 01-31-2005, 06:57 PM

Thanks, that's pretty much what I was looking for.

Does a bard need to make a concentration check if he is distracted somehow (like taking damage) while doing bardic music that requires concentration (say fascinate), does he need to make a concentration check to maintain the effect?

Does he need to make a concentration check in the same situation if he was using inspire courage?

Medesha · #80 01-31-2005, 07:40 PM

He doesn't have to make a concentration check in either case. Bardic music isn't listed as something requiring a check under the Concentration skill description. In addition, under Concentration it says, "In general, if an action wouldn't normally provoke an attack of opportunity, you need not make a Concentration check to avoid being distracted." Bardic music doesn't provoke AoOs.

Edit: I just read the rules over and I might actually be wrong. (gasp! shock! mock horror!) Spell-like abilities provoke AoOs but supernatural ones do not. Under each bardic music ability it's listed if it's a spell-like or supernatural ability. Fascinate is spell-like, so it would provoke and require a Concentration check if damaged. Inspire Courage is supernatural, so it would neither provoke AoOs nor require Concentration checks.

Hoopy Frood · #81 01-31-2005, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medesha

Edit: I just read the rules over and I might actually be wrong. (gasp! shock! mock horror!) Spell-like abilities provoke AoOs but supernatural ones do not. Under each bardic music ability it's listed if it's a spell-like or supernatural ability. Fascinate is spell-like, so it would provoke and require a Concentration check if damaged. Inspire Courage is supernatural, so it would neither provoke AoOs nor require Concentration checks.

Correct. I was going to correct you, but I see you corrected yourself. As an occasional Living Greyhawk player, we had a similar question to this situation come across the Verbobonc region listserv. I basically explained it as you did above, that it depended on the supernatural vs. spell-like tag. I double checked on the WOTC boards and they agreed with that interpretation.

Medesha · #82 01-31-2005, 09:49 PM

Yeah, I'm a self-correcting poster.

Glad to know someone's watching my back, though. Keeps me honest.

Loozer · #83 02-01-2005, 11:45 AM

I see, Spell-like vs. Supernatural. That answers the question perfectly.

Thanks.

Ravencloak · #84 02-03-2005, 03:22 PM

Is it possible to go into a Rage from barbarion class and while in the rage go into a berserker's fury?

Dragon Snack · #85 02-03-2005, 03:42 PM

Do you mean the Frenzied Berserkers (from Complete Warrior) Frenzy ability?

Yes, you can Rage and Frenzy at the same time. It says at the end of the Frenzy description that you end up exhausted (not just fatigued) when the Rage ends if you are under the effects of Rage (and since they both last 3+Con mod rounds, it follows that you can Rage while Frenzied).

edit: I seem to have misinterpreted your post, but I don't see anything saying you can't enter the Frenzy when you are Raging. In fact, you may HAVE to enter the Frenzy if you take damage and fail your Will save...

Ravencloak · #86 02-03-2005, 05:19 PM

Yeah, that was basically what i was asking, except i was talking about the berserker PrC in the dieties and demigods book.

Dragon Snack · #87 02-03-2005, 06:50 PM

Unfortunately I don't have that book...

JJeff · #88 02-03-2005, 08:58 PM

I would say that since it doesn't say no, you should be able to do so. Although I would say that you would be a VERY powerful person that I dare not get near to... +10 str total (+4 from rage, +6 from fury) and absolutely no control??? I'm running.....

GeneralOfDarkness · #89 02-03-2005, 09:07 PM

Quick question

With multiclass charactors, When your charactor level reaches EPIC levels (21+) and one or neither of your Classes (monk, bard, ect...) is not that level or higher, are you still considered an epic charactor and able to select epic feats? are you entitled to epic bonus feats?

Hoopy Frood · #90 02-03-2005, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneralOfDarkness

Quick question

With multiclass charactors, When your charactor level reaches EPIC levels (21+) and one or neither of your Classes (monk, bard, ect...) is not that level or higher, are you still considered an epic charactor and able to select epic feats? are you entitled to epic bonus feats?

You are considered an epic character when your total character levels (i.e. Monster levels (if any) + PC levels is 21 or greater). So if you have a 12/12 fighter/theif for instance, you' are epic.

Now, I'm not familiar with the Epic handbook, so I can't tell you what feats this allows you to get, but it should say how you treat non maxed levels when you reach epic proportions.

Also, it probably explains how level adjustment for stronger races figures in. My guess is that your ECL determines if you are in an epic campaign or not, but you probably aren't able to take any epic feats until your character's actual levels (monster + PC) are epic.