|
#1
01-18-2011, 12:17 PM
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The Character Workshop
What is this? If you have a character sheet or application for any game that you are having problems with or want reviewed, just post it here with your specific request and other willing members can give answers, feedback and advice. It's as simple as that. IMPORTANT! - Be sure to mention the needed information so we can answer your question fully and correctly. - Ask your DM you are applying or playing for if you are allowed to get outside help on that subject. - This is a thread for Character sheets and Character applications (including backgrounds, roleplay samples, descriptions,...) ONLY! - Make your question or concern clear, don't be vague. This thread is NOT for: - asking to write applications or part of applications for you! - asking help in convincing a certain DM to accept you in his/her game! - stealing other people's applications! - spamming, trolling, flaming,... All the normal forum rules apply. Table of questions and Answers:
Last edited by wolfoh; 08-11-2011 at 05:29 AM. 
|
|
#2
01-18-2011, 10:56 PM
|
|||||
|
|||||
|
Some general tips for character workshop based off a thread from the old and abandoned WotC boards. These tips generally apply to the character sheet section, since that's the part that I believe is easier to help someone with, and that more people generally do wrong.
__________________1) A good clear character concept: What do you want to play? A sword and board wielder? A fighter with two scimitars? A nuker? A battlefield control tank? Even better would be having a background that is written, with no class in mind, because then we can suggest classes that would fit the character best. The more info you can give, the better. What levels, house rules, or particular DM details? What are you specifically looking for assistance with? 2) If you have a class in mind, tell us. If you'd like to take that class to 20, or prestige class, and know what class, tell us. 3) Make sure that 1) fits 2). Don't tell us that you want to be a diviner and say you think the warmage class looks really neat. 4) Give us what books you have access to. That way people won't suggest things from books you don't have. Not only that; but how many books would you like to use for the character? 1 or 2? Or would you have fun pulling material from 8-9 books? 5) What level of optimization are you looking for? (This comes in a variety of terms; such as min/maxing, tweaking, twinking, powergaming, munchkinizing, etcetera. Frankly; I am not interested in a pro/con debate; and I'll keep it out of this thread. Some people want this, some people don't, but it will greatly shape suggestions.) For example: "I'm looking for a powerful two-handed fighter that is incredibly hardy and spell resistant." Low op: Drow Rogue 2/Fighter 16 Medium op: Goliath Barbarian9/Frenzied Beserker 10 High op: Human Warblade 20 with intense feat, manouver (focus on diamond mind saves replacers in early levels, obviously), and gear selection. On the subject of "writing well"; there are lots of debates, but I'll do my best to chip in there and help with that aspect as well.
|
|
#3
01-19-2011, 09:22 AM
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
To add to the above, telling us what house rules are in effect is really helpful.
__________________What Edition is one of the most important things you can tell us too A brief backstory / personality write up can be helpful, if you want to build a character around a certain event / his personality. In the interests of everyone Keep it brief (bullets points probably work best) and keep it focused. We don't care if your character was raised by Elves and spent 8 years with a druid in the woods unless you want this to be part of your character. Only tell us if you want it considered in the build
|
|
#4
02-01-2011, 09:27 AM
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
Alright I guess I'll be the first to try out the workshop. Just some general information before I jump into the build, I haven't played d&d for a while so when I ran into a old fiend from high school who invited me to join his 3.5 group. I decided to dust my dice off and reconnect with some old friends. I orginally came up with the idea to use a monk's flurry of blows ability with a javelin in combination with the quick draw feat & shot on the run feat tree, but to my disappointment I found out that monks are proficent with the javelins but the weapon doesn't count as a monk weapon.
 So I tried again to build the concept around a monk who used flurry of blows/quick draw/shot on run with a sai or rather alot of sai's (sp?), and while the idea of playing a guy who basically runs around the battlefield throwing blunt knives at people seemed fun. I've been in my fair share of games in the past where I've gone into them with a "cool/fun/interesting" concept character who wasn't efficent enough during combat, and to make matters worse I usually was a fighter. Sure I had fun roleplaying these guys shortcommings in combat, but I always felt I was missing out on half the game. Looking back now I realize my problem was I didn't optimize my characters enough. I spent more time thinking of a good backstory then min/maxing and planning out my heroes feats ahead of time. So after a long weekend spent rummaging through rulebooks & searching the internet I came up with this Race: Human Monk1 Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Dodge, Clever Wrestling Monk2 Combat Reflexes Monk3 Mobility Monk4 Figther1 Spring Attack Figther2 Combat Expertise,Improved Natural Attack Reaper Mauler1 Improved Trip Reaper Mauler2 Assassin1 Weapon Finesse Duelist1 Duelist2 Assassin2 Superior Unarmed Strike Duelist3 Duelist4 Assassin3 Defensive Throw Duelist5 Duelist6 Assassin4 Defensive Strike Assassin5 Duelist7 Hit Points 20~172 Saves: 13 fort 16 ref 7 will BAB: +17/+12/+7/+2 Flurry of Blows +18/+13/+8/+3/+1 Grapple +22 Trip +21 Unarmed Strike Damage Siangham Damage 1st: 1d6 1st:1d6 4th: 1d8 9th:1d6 ;SA [2d6] 6th: 2d6 15th:1d6 ;SA [3d6] 7th: 3d6 16th:2d6 12th:3d8 19th:2d6 ;SA [4d6] SA= Sneak attack Alright so this is the concept that I came up with a mobile brawler who can grapple, trip and buff himself with spells. By no means would I call myself a great optimizer so if the vets could help me clarify some of the game mechanics that be great. The unarmed damage is what I think I may have screwed up. If I understand the feats correctly Imporved Natural Attack changes 1d8 dmg into 2d6 dmg because the feat basically makes my PC's strike count as if he were one size bigger from med to large right? if so then he goes from 2d6 to 3d6 because the the Reaping Mauler 1st level class feature does pretty much the same thing as Improved Natural Attack increasing unarmed strike damage one step above their normal damage, as if the character's size had increased by one category. Which means my PC does the same amount of damage as a "Huge" level 4 monk right? Superior unarmed strike for a monk means their unarmed strike deals damage as if four levels higher which means 3d6 becomes 3d8 if my math is correct. Now before I go on let it be known that I know the monk is one of the weaker core classes which is "MAD" heavy. I realize you almost need every stat to be a 18 or higher. I also noticed the reaping mauler prc isn't exactly favored by everyone. I have'nt heard alot of bad things about the two other prc's I choose but it wouldn't surprise me if someone replies calling one or both garbage, and yes I understood even before I came up with the concept that grappling & tripping don't work against every enemy my PC will encounter in hopefully a long career. I don't want to be rude but I don't want to see suggestions by someone saying get rid of assassin levels for rogue or the like I choose this combination of classes & feats for a reason. It might seem strange, weird, or even illogical to some to have spring attack feat & impoved grapple, because it goes with his backstory and concept. Thats why I came here to see if some more experinced players could help me get the most out of this "build" not some uber-munchkin demigod PC. Speaking of backstory & concept let me fill you in on the gameworld. The GM didn't have time to give me the entire history of the setting, but he did tell me that it was basically low magic ancient greece/rome with monsters. Humans, elves & dwarves only. No psionics. House rule spell casters divine & arcane 10th level cap can't cast anything more powerful than 5th level spells. All books allowed. Group excluding myself includes specialist wizard, cleric, rogue, ranger. Starting level 1 Backstory: I'm still fleshing out the small details, lv 1~4 basically a man who begins his career as a Olympic athlete who trains to compete in 3 events. boxing, javelin, and wrestling. His training begun as a young child and countinued thoughout his adolescence. He competes is 1 or two olympics failing to bring home the gold or even place in the competition (if the campaign is real specific no one would get a medal but rather a olive branch or whatever that green leaf crown they gave to winners in the old school oympics was made from) levels 5~7 unable to bring glory back to his homeland he retires from the games and chooses to enlist in the army. Were he spends his early twenties learning the skills of the profession. This skills are tested when (insert ancient superpower) decides the invade his homeland. His countrymen fight braverly but they are outmatched and outgunned. Many die but many more are taken as slaves. Because of his background he is spared the fate of working in the mines and instead is made into a gladiator. levels 8~20 He spends the next few years fighting for his life and rather quickly as people are apt to do when put under extremly stressful circumstances for long periods of time his personality changes. He eventually buys his "freedom", but to do so he barrows a large amount from a local loanshark and fight fixer. He pays the man back in one of two ways either as a debt-collector who behind closed doors makes sure the loansharks enemies either pay up or bleed out. Or out in the local underworld as a bare-knuckle brawler who fights in unsanctioned bouts for a gambling profit that isn't taxed like it is in the arena. What I really need help with is finding a way to best distribute my ability scorces. I was thinking doing something along the lines STR<DEX<INT<CON<WIS<CHA I believe Strength needs to be high because the build is all about grappling,tripping, and melee. Dex I believe is next important because of the whole moving through occupied enemies squares with a lack of armor thing I got going for me. Intelligence is in 3rd because the spells from assassin are based off the stat also the death attack DC uses this stat. Plus Intelligence modifer per Duelist level to AC doesn't hurt. Constitution is at fourth because it's the only stat I haven't mentioned yet that I intend to raise to above a +1 modifer. Wisdom would be one of my dump stats if monks didn't use it to get a bit of a AC boost. Since I'm not takng stunning fist I belive I can get away with a score of 12 here. The early levels will be tougher this way I realize some people might think I'm crazy for doing it but I don't mind. This build is 'MAD' and something had to go. Charisma is my dmp stat I don't really mind if this were at 8 or lower. Last but not least the feats. I will admit that feat selection is not what I'm best at. That said I don't think I screwed it up as bad as I have in the past. The only one I think is a waste is probably weapon finesse but I need to get into the duelist prc. whose Int to AC bonus I need to compensate for me dumping Wisdom. By the way the feat from level 7 comes from Reaper Mauler bonus feat mobility which I already had. Final thougths. I took two levels in reaping mauler for the adept wrestling class skill. I like the thought of using a pinned opponents weapon against themselves with a +4 bonus no less. 5 levels were taken in the assassin Prc for improved uncanny dodge. Which if I'm not mistaken helps during grappling because PC retains Dex to AC against opponents he isn't grappling? 7 levels of duelist mainly for the elaborate parry. +7 ac bonus when fighting defensively is +12 ac bonus+dex modifer+wis modifer. Add to that spell buffs like cats grace and/or fox's cunning.  Four levels of monk because unarmed damage increase to 1d8 at that level, also flurry of blows becomes +1/+1. btw can someone check if I did the flurry of blows chart right. Eventually I'll give him a name  Thanks in advance
|
|
#5
02-01-2011, 03:49 PM
|
|||||
|
|||||
|
I haven't gone entirely through the build but a couple of quick notes.
__________________There's a feat somewhere (Oriental adventures) called Kung Foo Genius that allows you to trade your Wis to AC for Int to AC. If you do that consider taking 3 levels in Swashbuckler, which gives you Weapon Finesse for free at 1st level and at 3rd level allows you to add your Int to damage with all finessable weapons (such as unarmed strikes). Your alignment will have to be Lawful Evil or you loose a lot of abilities. Also don't forget that the Assassin requires you to kill someone for the sole purpose of becoming an assassin. Something akin to a Mafia hitman would work for his later backstory, perhaps that's how he 'bought' his freedom from the arena.
|
|
#6
02-01-2011, 10:59 PM
|
|||||
|
|||||
|
Okay I read through your backstory....and I haven't found anything that strongly suggests that you "need" those PrCs.
And you're starting at level ONE....how does that justify "requiring" those PrCs? Can you please clarify this? Also what level of optimization are you comfortable with? Your group is comfortable with? Your DM is comfortable with? Optimization happens within an environment - you optimize to the extent of your other party members and the extent your DM allows. Now please answer all of those questions before I help you. EDIT: On the MAD part....please dump Monk. And Reaper Mauler. This is for two reasons: Monk offers ONE thing that you want: Flurry of Blows. I can replace that with something more logical and effective and you'll don't need to lag behind with those Monk levels. Two, Reaper Mauler is terrible for grappling. Terrible. No not even then. And sorry if any of my advice ever comes out as harsh. Try to imagine them as more of a joking kind 
Last edited by JKTrickster; 02-01-2011 at 11:02 PM.
|
|
#7
02-02-2011, 01:59 AM
|
|||||
|
|||||
|
Start with what you want to do:
__________________Quote:
There are a pair of grappling methods: 1) Spellcasting ---> There are numerous spells to increase grappling. You can be a simple human wizard, for example, and call yourself a grapple mage. Important Stats: Int, Str, Con, then Dex, Wis, Cha. Int 16, Str 16, Con 14, Dex 10, Wis 10, Cha 8 = 28 point buy. Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple. Grapple checks: +7, all day long. An octopus familiar can get you another +3. Babau Slime (SpC) deals acid damage while in a grapple. Enlarge person makes you large (grapple). At 3rd level, you get bladeweave (SpC) (save or daze; if dazed, someone CDG's them if they can) and Balor Nimbus (deal 6d6 damage while in a grapple) This sort of starts to fall apart around level 10, but at that point, you can simply buff up your party, polymorph into something you like, and then eat your party. Clerics get many of these spells. The melee route: I'm less well acquainted with this one, so I'll let someone else call it. Mixing a melee grapple with a self-buffing caster is going to be very hard.
|
|
#8
02-02-2011, 06:34 AM
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
with flaws allowed Quote:
two magic users. Thank you all for the quick replies. I've taken SpatulaOdoom advice and added 3 lvl of swashbuckler to my build. Monk1 Combat Expertise,Clever Wrestling Monk2 Monk3 Improved Trip Monk4 SwashBuckler1 weapon finesse(bonus) SwashBuckler2 Improved Natural Strike SwashBuckler3 Reaper Mauler1 Superior Unarmed Strike(bonus) Assassin1 Improved Combat Expertise Duelist1 Duelist2 Assassin2 Dodge Duelist3 Duelist4 Assassin3 Defensive Throw Duelist5 Duelist6 Assassin4 Defensive Strike Assassin5 Duelist7 32 point buy Str 16 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 14 Wis 10 Cha 8 I plan on adding the Carmendine Monk & Scorpion's Grasp feats with flaws Any suggestions? Last edited by uncanny; 02-02-2011 at 06:40 AM.
|
|
#9
02-02-2011, 10:29 PM
|
|||||
|
|||||
|
Reaping Mauler is a bad PrC for grapplers. Grapplers NEED to be as huge as possible. Reaping Maulers are REQUIRED to be Medium Sized. There is NO advantage to being medium sized while grappling and the Reaping Maulers doesn't give you enough to justify such a restriction.
Also Grappling is only viable if you can reliably become Huge or bigger. Without a big size, you can't grapple sufficiently large creatures, who often have MUCH higher strength than you do. That 16 str you have? Not good for grappling. And you really haven't convinced me that Assassin, Duelist, or even Monk is needed for your "backstory". Does your "backstory" really scream any of these classes? And is your DM completely okay with the details of your story? It doesn't seem to factor in your other party members, or any overarching plot idea that your DM might have.... but I'll just assume that isn't a problem. Still, none of your backstory even implies a reason why you would use the Duelist life style.... You said that this person grew up as a Olympic Athlete. So we're talking about someone with good Physical stats, and you mentioned wrestling and throwing. This is where I assume you put in the fighting style. Sure. The gladiator stuff was really just to imply that he got better at fighting, etc. I would take Warblade going into Master Thrower and Bloodstorm Blade to max out throwing weapons. Take about 5 levels of Warblade, and go for double toss, defensive throw, etc. Focus on getting out as many throwing weapons as possible. Bloodstorm Blade means you can use melee with thrown weapons, a BIG advantage. I'm not too sure about grappling though. Normally I would use Psychic Warrior. Otherwise, it's almost impossible to do without spells.
|
|
#10
02-03-2011, 06:49 AM
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
My build is based on a grappler but he can also trip opponents to big for him to grab a hold of. By lv. 8 my PC is doing more damage than a lv. 20 monk and with the monks belt magic item that jumps to 4d8 dmg at the same BAB as a fighter (with the +3 from str mod). A potion of enlarge potion will also helps.
My Gm is okay with the backstory. In "game" terms my PC starts off as a monk, but role play wise he is a Olympic Athlete. It's pretty easy to explain a monks class features as benifits gained from years of strenous exercise. For example a monks high saves could be the olympic version of running marathons (fort), Quick (ref)lexes from years of training and muscle memory. Making sacrifices to stay in shape. Like a strict diet or no alcohol (will). A monks still mind ability could be explained as a athelete who is in the "zone". The Monk's Ki strike is a bit more difficult to explain. Perhaps when a olympian wins a gold medal the gods are pleased enough with the athlete to give him a few perks. A boxer wins a gold medal and so his fists glow yellow when he punches. It helps that I only took 4 levels before things would get hard to explain away as mere atheltic prowess. The same goes for duelitst. I simply role play the classes ability into a "street fighter". Adding Int mod to AC (canny defense) could be the street fighters version of a brawler who prefers to use "technique" as opposed to just raw power. The other duelist class abilities are mainly about mobility and reflexes which are dexterity based and could thus be explaned as just a "flamboyant" bare knuckle brawler. To be honest I pretty gave up on the idea of this PC be a ranged thrower in combat. The bit in the backstory about the javelin was really just a reason to give for the character to be proficent in it's use. Since I'm going the "Olympic" route it makes no sense for the PC to be weilding nunchucks or a sai. I'll look into that warblade class for future refrence though. I realize grappling can be a challenge to use in the game consistently but I think this build is versatile enough to succeed.
|
|
#11
02-03-2011, 07:26 AM
|
|||||
|
|||||
|
I would just like to mention that tripping relies more on size than grappling does.
But that's fine. You want to make a grappler correct? Okay no problem. I'm fine with helping you with that. This is your build after all. But please hear me out on this: do NOT take the Reaping Mauler. It really isn't worth burning a feat on something like Cleve Wrestling for a class like that. Your goal is to become bigger and bigger: this doesn't work well with Reaping Mauler. First of all, is human required? Just wondering if you would change the race. I would look into the Fist of the Forest class, which is a very nice prestige class is you're going for the general unarmed strike route. It only has three levels so take all of them. Does useful stuff like add Con to AC and lots of unarmed goodness. Found in Complete Champion. In general Scorpion's Grasp feats are amazing: use them. But know that if there are too many enemies, you're less useful. Make sure you find a way to reliably counter Freedom of Movement. That one spell neutralizes your entire character so be careful. Also look into the Warshaper class - I'll look into to see how you qualify but it is really strong for this type of build. Taking Warshaper and Fist of the Forest is MUCH better than Duelist IMO. Why can't your background still be a flamboyant fighter, without duelist, and be a better grappler?
|
|
#12
02-03-2011, 06:12 PM
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
Ok, maybe I am missing and please tell me if I am but you are a person who wants to use FoB for what purpose?
__________________My suggestion is go Swordsage(ToB) if you are dead set on the "Unarmed" approach. Take the unarmed monk progression(gives you their unarmed damage). I would not recommend going grappling or spending feats on such an iffy ability. Freedom of Movement, larger size, and MAD are all reasons not to focus on grappling/tripping. Since you are human you get a bonus feat; what I recommend is taking Shadow Blade or Adaptive Style. You mentioned the use of flaws, if you have one flaw available you could take Skill Focus Concentration(for synergy with Diamond Mind Discipline). If you have more feats then Two Weapon Fighting is an absolute must. The awesome part about Shadow Blade, for the purpose of PrCs, feats, and other special abilities Shadow Blade counts as Weapon Finesse meaning that you wanting to go into the duelist has your feat starvation alleviated. Swordsages also get Wis to AC when they are wearing armor; if you went the unarmed route however they can't wear armor but still get WIS to AC. Your level three feat will probably be Intuitive Attack(BoED). Now instead of strength you use your Wis to attack rolls with natural and simple weapons. You no longer need strength, though it's still handy(as Shadow Blade allows you to add both Strength and Dex to damage.) Splash in Swashbuckler if you want your Initiator Levels to drop. However, an alternative that may work is the use of the Genie, Djinni bloodline. At the cost of three levels you gain three initiator levels, and all level based abilities go up as well. The downside, a loss of BAB, skills, etc. However, consider this; any PrC you enter that has a level based ability is also getting this benefit so if you took the PrC Eternal Blade, since it furthers your initiator levels, you gain an additional six initiator levels at level 20. Mean 26 IL at level 20. Possible maneuvers as a Swordsage include "Wolf Fang Strike" which gives the ability to make a jump check and use two attacks in the same round(think mini pounce). If you combo that with something that goes onto your damage such as Burning Blade(ToB Boost), your damage can really climb at level one. Assuming 32 point buy(14 str, 16 Dex, 12 Con, Int 12, Wis 15, Cha 8) Two Weapon Fighting, Shadow Blade and Adaptive Style you attack for 4d6+12(If all hits land.) If you are using Wolf Fang Strike you are leaping, giving you +1 bonus on attack rolls since attacking from higher ground. +1 from Weapon Focus(class), +1 Higher ground, + 2 Strength, -2 TWF, gives a +2 bonus on attack rolls on both strikes. If you splatter in the bloodline at level three(and take weapon finesse) you have a higher "too hit". The great thing about Swordsages is their ability to use Setting Sun which has a lot of excellent "Trip" options and even give bonuses on them. At level one there is Mighty Throw in which you gain a bonus on tripping and throwing a foe. +7 with a Dex of 16. Stances I recommend is Island of Blades(needed to qualify for Shadow Blade) meaning you and your allies get to flank all your enemies easily, giving your future SA an easier time to hit. With two decent saves and the Diamond Mind counters, you won't be falling for a lot of the pitfalls that other melee classes have. If your DM is crazy and looks at the Swordsages skills, you have more skill points that a rogue at level one as Swordsages RAW get (6+int)x6; otherwise you are just really skilled. Everything Assassin does, a Swordsage can do. Going invisible, sneak attack damage, blur, etc. Meaning that you can take Intuitive attack and not worry about losing the benefit by going evil. There are a myriad of maneuvers that will make your stop a charging barbarian in his tracks. Since you know you are going up against a ton of barbarians might I recommend the Elusive Target feat found in Complete Warrior? It negates Power Attack, makes those you have designated as a dodge partner miss you without a save, and when you provoke an AoO you can make a free trip attempt with no negative. Show that Shock Trooping, Leap Attacking Barbarian what absolute battlefield prowess really is. Not to mention it synergizes well with the Swordsage maneuvers that counter people's attacks such as Baffling Defense, and the level one maneuver that negates a charge. I would recommend if you are allowed two flaws that starter feats are Adaptive Style, Shadow Blade, Two Weapon Fighting, and Dodge. If you took the Bloodline you will receive a +1 Dexterity and Improved Initiative, +2 to concentration checks, relatively quickly. Level three feat either Mobility or Intuitive Attack. You will lose a BAB if you took the bloodline, but your Initiator Level continues upward. If you want SA dice then Assassin stance gives you a free +2d6. I would not dip in Monk as all the benefits are not outweighed by the costly negatives(drop in Skills, AC bonus you already have, ect.) Duelist has some interesting special abilities but not enough to warrant loosing five IL(Initiator Levels) unless of course you took the Bloodline and a PrC. Assassin has nice flavor I suppose, but it's just mimicking things you can already do without having to expend something like spells. If you would like someone to buff you spells I recommend is Fist of Stone(Complete Arcane) and Mighty Wallop(Races of the Dragon). Mighty Wallop and it's brother, Greater Mighty Wallop combined with Improved Natural Attack will give you obscene damage potential with a small limited cost. The benefit is the spells are low level meaning that they pass the level five cap your DM has placed. Extra Tricks you could do is level into Shiba Warrior(OA) for Wisdom to attack and damage rolls, but that might be a little cheesy for the group you are in. All in all I would avoid Monk like the plague with Swordsages in the ring, and don't waste levels getting abilities that you can already do.
|
|
#13
02-03-2011, 06:31 PM
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
True tripping takes a decent to high strength mod, but unlike grappling I can trip opponents larger then Huge,While remaining medium. I agree the clever wrestling feat kinda sucks it would be better if it worked like weapon finesse using Dexterity mod instead of strength for grappling.
I like the sound of the fist of the forest class. Adding con to ac doesn't hurt, but what interested me more is what little I have found on the internet says the class adds three monk levels to unarmed damage & more importantly improved uncanny dodge. I don't have the book so I don't know the prereqs for the PrC but since the class has only three levels I'm guessing uncanny doodge is needed before entering the class. I know reaping mauler has it's flaws but taking a one level dip into that PrC is like a better version of two feats. Weapon focus (grapple), and Improved natural attack. A level one mauler gets +2 to grapple attempts. 1 from the classes abitilies, and 1 from it's BAB, and the mauler's unarmed strike count as if they were one size catergory bigger just like the improved natural attack feat. Having both means my PC in "game" terms has Huge hands. Lv. 4 monk +Lv. 1 Reaping mauler +Lv. 3 Fist of the forest +Improved natural attack+Superior unarmed strike +Monks belt= 6d6 of damage. Thank you JKTrickster for introducing me to the fist of the forest PrC. I'll do some more digging to find out the classes prereqs but I like what I've found so far. @Dragune185: the swordsage looks pretty cool, but I have my heart set on monk. Thanks for the reply that bit about the elusive target feat was the same thing I was thinking when looking over feat selections but I decieded improved combat expertise would be more useful since it sync up with defensive throw/strike better IMO. Last edited by uncanny; 02-03-2011 at 07:07 PM. Reason: reply to dragune185
|
|
#14
02-03-2011, 08:46 PM
|
|||||
|
|||||
|
Is there a reason you're dead set on the monk? Because see I was wondering what was the best way to do both tripping and grappling when I suddenly realized....
Unarmed Swordsage that focused on Setting Sun would be a terrific tripper. That is the entire purpose of that discipline after all. Wouldn't this be a better fit than your monk at tripping? It doesn't even require Improved Trip because it provides a +4 bonus anyway and does damage - of course if you want to pick up the feat, it won't be too much of a problem. I know a build that can pick it up with no problem. Now I ask if your DM is willing to accept homebrewed material. If he doesn't then that would be very sad because someone actually made a Discipline focused on grappling and it is actually based on the Setting Sun discipline (its maneuvers follow the same style and format, but apply it to Grappling). He calls the discipline Monkey Paw or Maula Kae. Try and show that discipline to your DM and ask if you could take it in exchange for losing access to another discipline (say Desert Wind which may not fit your character style, or even Shadow Hand). I can absolutely vouch for the balance-ness of this discipline, but of course if your DM has problems with it, just try and get him to approve of some maneuvers or just ban the maneuvers he doesn't like/modify them. Now with an Unarmed Swordsage that specializes in Setting Sun and Monkey Paw/Maula Kae your character concept it rather easy. Swordsage represents that you are more than a fighter; you actually think and meditate on what it means to fight. You have the spirit of a competitor and winner, not merely some ruffian who kills other people. Your huge selection of maneuvers means that you can focus on grappling and tripping, but still save some slots for the other disciplines which provide their own useful tricks. Does this fit your character concept better than Monk/Reaping Mauler/etc.? And I'm not sure if you realize this...but the moment you become Large size (or simply Medium+) you lose all the class features of the class. And becoming bigger is a +4 bonus, versus the +2. There are MANY other ways to improve your unarmed strike damage (like the Fist of the Forest PrC) and I'll provide you with that info. if you'll like. I'll also provide you with info. of the PrC - just PM me later. EDIT: And this makes you MUCH less MAD. I would say its mainly Wis=Dex, then Con. with Intuitive Attack, but that's certainly not necessary. And if you do go Swordsage, the Unarmed Variant raises one question: can the DM change the AC Bonus ability to resemble the Monks (unarmored) since the Unarmed Swordsage loses access to armor anyway? It isn't a huge power boost but certainly makes more sense IMO. And if you go Swordsage, grab Adaptive Style without a doubt. It is absolutely needed by the 3rd level. Last edited by JKTrickster; 02-03-2011 at 08:50 PM.
|
|
#15
02-04-2011, 02:39 PM
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
It should be noted that while the unarmed variant swordsage is worthy of mention, and the setting sun discipline is one very powerful set of maneuvers that help you maintain control over battle field movements, the Factotum class, as found in Dungeonscape, can trip just the same.
__________________The only difference really is that Factotums are intellectuals who master the various techniques needed to survive a delve into a dungeon. Their third level ability enables them to add their intelligence modifier to any strength or dexterity checks, of which the trip check is one. This enables you to add together two stats instead of just using one. In combination with the Improved Trip feat and a whip or spiked chain, your modifier would be at a decent level. Assuming a 30 point buy, +2 strength mod, with a +4 int mod( racial bonuses from lesser tiefling) that is starting at a +6, then with improved trip, and a spiked chain, it becomes +12. A pretty decent modifier. In the end though, it depends on what flavor you're going for. The wise warrior or the cunning scoundrel. Also if you want to improve your unarmed damage: -Monk's Sash -Improved Natural Attack(If your DM allows it) -Superior Unarmed Strike -And many other PrCs that would help improve the damage output. -Maybe a Vest of continuous Mighty Wallop? ************************************************** ************************* This is going to be a long post, because I have a character concepts that I might need help with. The campaign is as follows, It is an ECL 4 gestalt, where one side has to be levels in an undead racial class as mentioned in Libris Mortis. The DM has banned tier 1 casters (As per JaronKs list) and as well encouraged to use tier 3 classes on the PC class side. My first concept was a Mohrg 4/Unarmed, Spellcasting, Swordsage 4 (I intend to take advantage of some spells to improve my Unarmed Strike damage as well as stealth abilities) Feats ad abilities: The undead racial class grants feats, but my DM has stated that it must be themed to my particular undead. 1 Mohrg - Improved Turning Resistance (+4 to my turning resistance) 2 Mohrg 3 Mohrg 4 Mohrg - Darkstalker 1 Swordsage - Shadow Blade (Add dexterity to damage while in Shadow Hand stance) 2 Swordsage - 3 Swordsage - Two Weapon Fighting (So I can punch with both fists without a huge penalty) 4 Swordsage - The DM also granted us two bonus feats out some form of generosity: -Unarmed Strike (So I can punch without provoking AoOs) -Arcane Strike (DM let me use the "spells" to fuel this. Adds bonus to hit and 1d4 bonus damage based on spell level) And if I could be a human or strongheart halfling on top of this, -Adaptive Style Because the DM stated that most of the opponents are going to be undead, it makes sense that my character would avoid some of the heavy damaging Shadow Blade Maneuvers such as Assassin's stance, and Death from the Shadows. I instead am going to utilize Desert Wind and Setting Sun for damage and control. The one spell I want is Silence, though I can't have it because it is a bard or cleric spell and the spellcasting variant swordsage was granted sorcerer and wizard spells in place of maneuvers learned to be learned. Though I'm quite sure I could browse the lists to find something that would let me bump move silently and hide checks. Abilities Str- 18 (12, +2 from Mohrg; + 4 enhancement from animators Corpsecrafter feat) Dex- 22 ( 14 + 2 from Mohrg ; +4 from Corpsecrafter Chain) Con- - (Undead) Int- 12 Wis- 16 Cha- 14 Attack Rolls 1d8+10 (+4 strength + 6 dexterity) with a +8 (+3 BaB, +4 Strength, +1 from Dicipline Focus) to hit or 1d8 +10, 1d8 +8 with a +6/+6 to hit (If I read two weapon fighting correctly) or with Flashing Sun 1d8 + 10, 1d8 +10, 1d8+8 with a +4/+4/+4 to hit (Flashing Sun imposes a -2 penalty on all attack rolls made that round) For some reason, the DM has allowed Shadow Blade to also function similar to Weapon Finesse. So that it actually replaces my attack roll with Dex instead of strength. Attack rolls will be at a +10 to hit ( +3 BaB, +6 Dex, +1 from Decipline focus) +8/+8 (Two Weapon Fighting) or +6/+6/+6 (With Flashing Sun) With Arcane Strike, and sacrificing a spell, it comes to +12, +10/+10, or +8/+8/+8 to hit. With +2d4 to my damage rolls. If I initiate Burning Blade, it adds an additional 1d6 + 4 to damage rolls. The damage band I'm looking at at the moment is as follows : One attack : 18 - 37 damage (1 from dice, +10 from bonus, +5 from burning blade, +2 from arcane strike dice - 8 from dice, +10 from bonus, +10 from burning blade, +8 from arcane strike dice) Two Weapon Fighting : 36 - 72 With Flashing Sun : 54 - 108 I just wanted to be sure I did this correctly. Last edited by Cancer; 02-04-2011 at 04:51 PM. Reason: Added a question.
|
 |
| Thread Tools | |
|
|
