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  #16  
Old 12-12-2005, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jj_wolven
Mechanics wise: At low levels you run into very few creatures with spells, making him a weak rogue. At higher levels the ability is nice but for two things,
you have to get in close and make a sucessful sneak attack to steal spells. Most of the fighters in the group will be concentrating on damage dealers rather than spell caster, and might not move to flank so sneak attack might be more difficult.
Plus you have to put yourself in harm's way more often on the chance that you are successful. I don't think the front liners want you out in front potentially getting hit and the cleric will get tired of healing you. Besides if you don't steal the spell within the first two rounds then by the time you: either run in, sneak around or whatever, the cleric/wizard will have his minons around you or have summoned something to get you anyways. . .
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  #17  
Old 12-12-2005, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDarkFuzz
.

Toss 5 or 6 halfling spellthieves with swarmfighting against your party. . .
Around every GREAT spell caster is a GREAT support team. Bring on the little speed bumps and a whirlwind attack later from the party's fighter or cleric will spoil the half-pints plans on seeing the next day.
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Last edited by raz; 12-12-2005 at 02:23 PM.
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  #18  
Old 04-27-2007, 06:33 PM
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Spellsnatch from everyone!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Subtle
We'll, I just got accepted into a game as a spelltheif. Anyone have any ideas as to what kind of stats I should aim for, or a good race to use?
I don't know too much about stat builds, but you should definately consider the star elves out of Unapproachable East. That ghost touch can really help, and the charisma bonus is a godsend. All in all, I say take weapon finness (or just a level of swashbuckler...), have a good dex and cha and go for it.
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  #19  
Old 04-30-2007, 04:58 PM
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The Spelltheif is an interesting idea but far too limited if there isn't an arcane baddy to fight against. They end up being, as others have said, a poor rogue when you're up against some demon worshiping cultists with just divine casters.

But I suppose it's like any other specialised class. Against undead and constructs a normal rogue losses an awful lot of its power. The DM and players need to work together a little just so that noone is left feeling useless at the game table. That means either the DM throws in challenges suitable for the spelltheif or discorrages a playwe taking the class in teh first place. It's like not allowing paladins in a CN party.
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  #20  
Old 05-06-2007, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subtle
Of course he should plan around it. If he dosen't you may ruin a cinematic encounter by becoming too insane. At the same time he can seed spells into enemy spell casters as a tool to get through a specificly hard area. Perhapses your in a dastardly lich's hide out. The next room is a infine chasam that's warded for teleportation, and the team's ranger spots a target on the other side thats the only possible mechanism for getting across. He fires an arrow sevral times, and all of them miss. You backtrack to the last room, where you defeated a rakshata sorcerer and steel a true strike spell. You borrow the ranger's bow and you've gotten rid of an annoying trap in a cool way. You could seed the bosses weaknesses in lower level enemys, giving you a quick way to defeat him if you can make it to the top in time, or at least give the spell theif the abilitys he needs to stop the BBEG's annyoing special move. ( Like if he's a teleporter, for example) Giving DM's that element of subtlety is truely a great thing. Ignoring it is a waste of talent.
Well, if the spellthief could actually steal a spell from the dead Rakshasa, then this would be a truly potent class. But alas, the dead are immune to the spellthief's powers.

Unfortunately, it is quite difficult to successfully sneak attack an enemy wizard more than once (again, death becomes quite inconvenient - though I suppose the spellthief's watered-down sneak attack does come in handy here) and choosing the right utility spells to steal to help later on in a dungeon crawl when you don't know what you may need (or your wizard would have already memorized it) is a long, long, longshot. Unless the DM just spoonfeeds it to you, that is...

Nah, the spellthief's power is far too random to be of much situation-specific use. It's a nice cinematic thought to have the clever spellthief steal a lieutenant's spell and then use it to great effect on the boss, but in practice, that will happen very, very rarely barring outright deus ex machina.

The spellthief is basically a lousy rogue with an interesting trick ability. Spell-stealing is pretty meh. Actually, I think the ability to steal energy resistance, spell resistance and spell-like abilities can be quite useful against boss-type monsters at higher levels, where special abilities are well-known (just make your knowledge check), allowing for considerable forward planning.

Now that I think about it, the spellthief could be a real monster-killer at higher levels. Many baddies have just one or two great spell-like abilities without which they are largely toothless. Hmmm...yes. A high-level spell thief could be extremely useful. It's going to depend on those knowledge skills, though. The spellthief has Knowledge (arcana), but he will need other party members with planar, dungeoneering and all the other knowledge skills that inform the PCs about monster special abilities and whatnot. You're only going to deny that monster his spell-like ability for 10 rounds, but 10 rounds is an eternity in combat, especially for a monster who has just lost his primary means of attack.

Stealing spells, on the other hand, will always be too random for realistic strategic planning.
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  #21  
Old 07-13-2007, 03:37 PM
Shadowkami Shadowkami is offline
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I love spellthief, but for one thing: Sleight of Hand is a cross-class skill for them - I love being able to steal spells, but when it comes down to it, I like to steal everything else too, if I am going to be the party rogue...
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  #22  
Old 07-13-2007, 03:51 PM
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You could use Skill Knowledge (Unearthed Arcana) to gain it as a class skill, passing on to any other classes you take on the way.
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  #23  
Old 12-14-2007, 03:41 PM
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Or you could take Jack Of All Trades, from Complete Adventurer. Some DMs might not allow everything (or anything) from Unearthed Arcana, but if you're allowed to make a Spellthief, surely anything else from Complete Adventurer would be fine...

Sorry to post in a dead thread, but I've just started playing a Spellthief (we're 4th level, actually), and I had a couple comments on what I've done.

Starting with a first level Spellthief, I took second and third level in Fighter, gaining weapon proficiencies and a couple bonus feats. Also, Climb isn't a Spellthief class skill, but it is a Fighter class skill, so I bumped it up to 5 ranks over my two fighter levels. At 3rd level, one of my feats was Open Minded, for the additional skill points, which I sank into a couple Skill Tricks, from Complete Scoundrel. The Extreme Leap is pretty handy for closing in for a surprise round Sneak Attack with my Bastard Sword... The bonus Fighter feats were handy for acquiring Improved Feint and a Weapon Focus feat, which helps me hit things pretty handily. The low BAB of a Spellthief kind of hurts...

Anyway, at 4th level, I'm back to Spellthief to stay.

One thing I'd like to say is that although Sleight of Hand isn't a class skill, it hasn't really hurt me much. I have a rank or two in it, but mostly so I can use it at all. My Dexterity bonus and the synergy bonus from Bluff give me a pretty respectable Sleight of Hand bonus for a non-Rogue. I'm not going to be swiping the +5 Defender from the Red Dragon's hoard without him noticing, but it's pretty handy for pickpocketing drunks to get plot-crucial information and/or a little bit of gold for a drink, myself...

Anyway, I'm thoroughly enjoying my Spellthief, thanks. Although I have to admit that I've mostly used my Spell-thieving abilities to date for borrowing the party Wizard's spells. I have taken a spell from a spell-casting monster, and it turned out to be his last spell, but it was, like, Mage Hand or something True Strike, as someone mentioned before, came in handy, as did Detect Magic when I was scouting ahead at one point.

peace
Nilchii

Last edited by Nilchii; 12-14-2007 at 03:44 PM.
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