Unarmed strikes and two-weapon fighting

[Zazzie the Beast]

According to the PhB, a monk's unarmed strike is considered a manufactured weapon... also, it says a character may make an unarmed attack with a kick or a punch, or even a headbutt. Does this mean that a character with at least one monk level can utilize two-weapon fighting combat with a two-handed weapon and unarmed strikes at the same time?

[ForceofGreed]

That's a good question. I don't think so, because unarmed fighting uses all appendages, while two weapon fighting means you have to use only two. Thats why monks get flurry of blows. Although, you coulse use two weapon fighting and kamas or another monk weapon.

[Spartan]

On one hand, a monk's unarmed strike is considered a manufactured weapon, and therefore can (supposedly) be used for Two-Weapon Fighting. However, as stated in the SRD, "There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed." Two-Weapon Fighting constitutes fighting with a weapon in your normal hand and one in your off-hand. Perhaps you could use an unarmed strike as your primary weapon and a kama or such as your off-hand strike - I'm not sure.

[Atma Lua]

if you were a monk, why would you want to use your offhand attack as two weapon fighting? Flurry of blows is basically the same thing, and you can mix and match monk weapons with it. Lvl1 monk has 1d6 punching power anyways, so for the most part better than most weapons. The punches get stronger as you level too, eventually you get 2d10 damage at lvl 20. Also, you attack more than two weapon fighting and get better to hit with flurry of blows until you reach very high lvls. If you multiclass, lets say rogue and monk, then you still dont need to twf because your punches are stronger than a dagger. Also both flurry and TWF is a full round action.

At lvl 20, Flurry has 5 attacks. lose 1 attack, gain 3 feats.

At Lvl 20 TWF and imp twf and greater twf and regular attacks for medium BAB = 6 attacks, but cost 3 feats.

[Zazzie the Beast]

"There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed" means that a monk doesn't suffer any penalties associated with off-hand attacks if he is using an unarmed strike; however, any other penalties applied to attacks also apply to his unarmed strikes. It isn't meant to say a monk cannot use two-weapon fighting with an offhand attack, at least I don't think it is.

Who says you can't use TWF with flurry of blows? A level 20 monk with greater twf, dual-wielding kamas, and full flurry has 8 attacks at a -2 penalty to each (+13/+13/+13/+13/+8/+8/+3/+3)... but that's not what I'm after... I want to know if a monk can twf with a two-handed weapon and unarmed strikes--unless the weapon is a quarterstaff, flurry of blows isn't applicable.

[Asurathedrunk]

No

TWF is for two appendages, despite having other attack forms. I would rule that you could using more than two appendages would automatically make it impossible.

now MULTIweapon fighting, I would say different.

[Zazzie the Beast]

Well, a player needs at least 3 hands to take the multiweapon fighting feat, and if a monk is only using unarmed strikes and a two-handed weapon, wouldn't that qualify for two-weapon fighting because only two weapons are being used?

What about TWF with just unarmed attacks? I can't find any rules for that, either.

[Lyinginbedmon]

I'd say you could (possibly) use Two-Weapon Fighting with Flurry of Blows/Unarmed Strike, but probably not with a 2-handed weapon too. Besides what kind of Strength bonus would it get? Not much of a bonus really

A recent NPC (The Beast) in my campaign often combines Flurry of Blows with Two-Weapon Fighting, he ends up with 13 attacks

[aerondor]

To things here. First I am pretty sure the FAQ says that a monk can use TWF and their unarmed/flurry attack. It is even worse if you have natural attacks (eg Centaur).

On the other hand, I'd think it perfectly reasonable if a DM said noway to that. Otherwise things get crazy.

Figure a Figure 4/Monk 16.
That is 4 attacks from BAB, plus 2 from Flurry (all at that nice 2d10 damage), plus another 3 (from TWF,ITWF,GTWF) with another (monk style) weapon, plus maybe one more unarmed from haste. Ten attacks, without needing an epic feat (which would take it up to 11, perfect two weapon fighting) or any natural attacks (warforged bash, half dragon claws, etc etc making it up to 12). I'm sure someone could manage to get a few extra ones in there if you went Dervish or something else exotic.

[Jondera]

It states in the Two-weapon fighting feat description that unarmed strikes are always considered to be "light."

From the consideration of a two-handed weapon + unarmed strike, I see no problem with it, but I think it should be reserved for certain weapons (pole arms, mostly).

Also, this could be used with sword/shield/unarmed strike, to gain the extra AC bonus, although not by a monk.

[Lanthar Mandragoran]

Just to be 'official'... and, yes, Two-Weapon Fighting can be used with Unarmed Attacks 9even non-monk)... also, a monk could flurry with one end of, say, a quarterstaff and his knees / head and then TWF with the 'other' end of the quarter staff...

Originally Posted by FAQ

Can a monk fight with two weapons? Can she combine a two-weapon attack with a flurry of blows? What are her penalties on attack rolls?
A monk can fight with two weapons just like any other character, but she must accept the normal penalties on her attack rolls to do so. She can use an unarmed strike as an offhand weapon. She can even combine two-weapon fighting with a flurry of blows to gain an extra attack with her off hand (but remember that she can use only unarmed strikes or special monk weapons as part of the flurry). The penalties for twoweapon fighting stack with the penalties for flurry of blows.
For example, at 6th level, the monk Ember can normally make one attack per round at a +4 bonus. When using flurry of blows, she can make two attacks (using unarmed strikes or any special monk weapons she holds), each at a +3 bonus. If she wants to make an extra attack with her off hand, she has to accept a –4 penalty on her primary hand attacks and a –8 penalty on her off-hand attacks (assuming she wields a light weapon in her off hand).
If Ember has Two-Weapon Fighting, she has to accept only a –2 penalty on all attacks to make an extra attack with her off hand. Thus, when wielding a light weapon in her off hand during a flurry of blows, she can make a total of three attacks, each at a total bonus of +1. At least one of these attacks has to be with her off-hand weapon.
A 20th-level monk with Greater Two-Weapon Fighting can make eight attacks per round during a flurry of blows. Assuming she wields a light weapon in her off hand, her three off-hand weapon attacks are at +13/+8/+3, and she has five attacks (at +13/+13/+13/+8/+3) with unarmed strikes or any weapons she carries in her primary hand. If the same monk also has Rapid Shot and throws at least one shuriken as part of her flurry of blows (since Rapid Shot can be used only with ranged attacks), she can throw one additional shuriken with her primary hand, but all of her attacks (even melee attacks) suffer a –2 penalty. Thus, her full attack array looks like this: +11/+11/+11/+11/+6/+1 primary hand (two must be with shuriken) and +11/+6/+1 off hand.

[ForceofGreed]

I'd say resolve it by asking WoTC. They respond within 2 days normally.

[Stam]

I've seen an Ask the Sage in Dragon magazine that allowed a character using a two-handed weapon to still use spiked armor as an 'off-hand' attack - in that case, the character was assumed to be kicking or kneeing the opponent with the spiked armor.

Same would also work with Blade Boots. Huge massive two-handed greatsword, then spiked armor or stiletto on the bottom of one foot.

[Zazzie the Beast]

Thanks, Stam, you've answered my question perfectly :biggrin:. I was asking because I was thinking about making a monk that uses a polearm--I went with longspear because of an Eberron feat that allows FoB with it--and unarmed strikes to dual-wield, utilizing a five-foot step between the two different weapons.

[Jondera]

Originally Posted by Zazzie the Beast

I went with longspear because of an Eberron feat that allows FoB with it.

You can do that with any pole arm with a feat from Dragon Magazine 331. Look it up; if you don't have DM access, then look up my bare-bones descriptions of the feats from that article in the topic "two new weapon ideas" in the House Rules section.