[OOC] Tactics!

[DannoE]

Hey guys,

This here thread is for you to discuss tactics. This way, you can surprise me with your maneuvers.

[HFLep]

Well, I might as well break in the tactics thread. Things are looking good now, but we've got to see what happens when Dannoe moves his boys.

If Killian fails his save and falls asleep, I'm going to try to clear the way a charge from for Ginagel. That means pushing the dwarf leader or boar (if it's still alive) out of the way so that Ginagel has a clear line of charge on Killian.

Hell, even if he doesn't fall asleep, it'd be worth it. Dazed, he gives combat advantage. You up for it, THD? If zin could give you another attack the same turn, that would be just gravy.

[Nocturnal]

Killian won't be dazed at the end of his turn. He will either be asleep, or fully combat-ready. Nothing in between. Either way I believe it's worth sticking to The Plan and killing him with grabby freezy damage because it's certain and it binds him.

I expect DannoE to move his minions to support Bolter 2. All he has to do is put a minion on each side of the dwarf to deny me my Oath benefit: I have to have a space where only my target is adjacent to me. I will likely need some cleaning back there. Either Jaeron can kill one or two minions to clear me a spot, or Pendrax can blow a Standard action to burn some away with his Scorching Burst. If Killian sleeps, then it's more important to clear a path for Ginagel to smash him though - keeping in mind that he will take opportunity attacks to get there, and the battlefield might look different by then.

I wish FreeRange would have checked in to make Killian drop his sword so someone could snatch it away. Stealing his enchanted longsword before he could use it would have been a great boon to our side. Zin could even have made Killian order his men to follow suit and surrender. The additional round of confusion, and driving Killian into an impotent frenzied rage, could have been a great demoralizing ploy.

So far so awesome everyone! Everybody's move except mine was sheer brilliance, and we've had a great streak of beginning luck. *Knock on wood.*

[TheHumanDynamo]

Course I'm up for it, Ginagel is a charging machine! With the boar dead, Killilan is the next biggest threat (and I did call him out), though I'll probably try to kill the Dwarf Captain too for talking smack. Killian, the Captain, our DM, just tell me who you want me to charge and kill

I wouldn't worry about the OAs I suffer for charging in, that's what Combat Sprint is for.

[Nocturnal]

I thought Combat Sprint lets you move very far (9 squares with your rage now) with defense against OAs, and then use whatever attack power you want at the end of it? You can't use that on a charge. But you could waltz right up to a sleeping enemy and hit him with your Rage Strike for 4*[W] damage plus all the bonuses. If he was sleeping. That's better than Angelic Alacrity!

[HFLep]

If that is the case, Killian dropping prone and dropping his sword may be the best way to go. He would give combat advantage for one additional round. FreeRange knew what he was doing.

[Nocturnal]

Well, he never mentioned dropping his sword, and then Killian would be lying on it so not as much help there. It's only one round, and he would miss out on making an attack (because he only gets to make the one action.) But I've asked DannoE to wait until we get FreeRange's input if he doesn't mind. Otherwise he'll just have Killian make an attack.

By the way, I was wrong about how much damage the Shielding Fire can do: it's still round 1 in any case so Baslim can only use it once.

[HFLep]

Nuts, looks like DannoE made almost all of his sleep saves. Only one hammerer asleep.

Sandrock, whatever you do, could you shift Baslim out of the spot you're in after you do it? It's exactly where I'd like to put Jaeron. He'd be able to get all four guys there with one of his attacks. Shifting to I 22 would be ideal. I need to create some space to let Thor through--he needs to get to Hammerer 3 to coup-de-grace him. So you can safely ignore the guy and attack the others. Hammerer 3 should be taking over 32 points of damage from Thor next turn--enough for an autokill.

FreeRange, can you move Zin up a tad? Just so he gives the +1 bonus to the front-line fighters?

THD, I'm going to try to use Thor's action point to get over to your side and help you. But please, don't take your turn until Thor takes his, ok?

[Nocturnal]

Sounds like a good plan, to execute hammer 3 when he's down!

If it's not too much trouble I would like to call in an airstrike on the Dwarf Bolter 2 or on M-15 or K-15 right next to him. I don't mind being caught in the blast to clear out some minions: if we're lucky enough that Street Tough 1 goes down, I get to use my Oath.

Scorching Burst counts cover only from the origin square, so the army in the way doesn't provide cover. At least it will almost certainly kill minions 4 and 5, because it has +7 to hit minion 4 (unconscious and CA) and +5 to hit minion 5 (unconscious, CA, and cover)

I realize Pendrax may be busy so I can work something else out if I have to, or just hope to roll well. Thanks.

[HFLep]

With all due respect to Atropo's plight, the minions are not exactly a top priority. I mean, they auto-die if they just stand next to Jaeron. He doesn't even have to attack them! We can mop them up at our leisure.

We need to knock out the dwarfs and shifters, like, yesterday. If Pendrax is going to be nuking anything, I am sincerely hoping he nukes that. He can get Hammerer 2, shifter 2, and bolter 1 with the same burst--might even finish off the bolter, who is on his last HP's.

[Nocturnal]

Controllers & Minions
He does have to actually go stand next to them though, which he isn't going to do - and we can't mop them up if they run away the instant Killian is down. Tactically: do not ignore the minions! One of the worst things we can do is focus on the tough-to-kill soldiers and ignore the minions. I nearly TPKed a party that did that on an even-XP battle, not a double-level battle, and they only had a single soldier they should have ignored. Their fortunes improved only when they flushed all the minions with an AoE blast.

Scorching Burst is not "nuking." That's a little excessive. "Nuking" is having a Great Weapon Fighter use Come And Get It, going into Rain of Steel stance and spending an action point to use Thicket of Blades, dealing 5[W] + 2*Str damage to every enemy in a burst 3 area. That's the level 9 version Nuke - the level 23 Nuke does 7[W] + 2*Str damage in a burst 4 area. Scorching Burst does 1d6+Int damage in a burst 1 area, not comparable to our best striker's 60-something damage attacks, at least not against anybody who has hit points.

Wizards are made to kill Minions - and Minions are meant to neutralize strikers, so DannoE is using his forces exactly right. We should too. If Pendrax wanted to use his AoE, it would be much better to target five enemies (four of whom will die on a hit and double damage to the one that won't) and certain-kill two of them, than to target three enemies with relatively low damage (specifically, he cannot kill Bolter 1.) Besides, he has a chance of freeing up the second Striker to do his job of finishing up the squishies so he can come and aid the main battle. Still should probably grab Killian to keep a handle on him.

Now, since you mentioned "nuke" let's talk about what Strikers can do.

Barbarian Mathamancy
Please forgive the extensive use of out-of-character Mathamancy but this encounter is twice our level and I believe we should take outstanding opportunities when they present themselves.

Ginagel should do his plan he mentioned earlier, of moving or Combat Sprinting to one of the unconscious enemies (like the Shifter Swordsman who is unconscious) and then killing him outright in his sleep. But Jaeron can help him set up a really powerful chain of carnage here. All Jaeron needs to do is shift to K-21 (you can legally stand over a helpless enemy) and push unconscious Shifter 1 away with Tide of Iron. Choose not to shift into his space. Remain standing over the unconscious dwarf, who will be dead soon.

Ginagel's damage bonus is +12 fully stacked up. With the charging bonus of 2d6 (howling strike) and maximized everything, that's enough to kill the unconscious dwarf outright. Hammer Fall is also enough to kill the unconscious dwarf on a critical.

The Shifters are tougher, and if he attacks him in a Howling Strike charge he will want to need to roll a 2 or higher on his critical hit d6 in order to kill him outright - that's less than an 84% success rate, doesn't pass my engineering spec. More importantly, there's no way However, it is also easy to charge Shifter 1 as part of a chain of carnage. I believe that to be safer it is worth using Rage Strike (please hear me out until the end, it is worth it) to guarantee overkilling Shifter 1. Normally I'd never say that, but we're not supposed to hold back in this fight. To be honest, there are no guarantees - Ginagel is inaccurate enough he still needs to roll a 7 or higher to kill even an unconscious Soldier here (with his effective +15 attack bonus against unconscious enemies, or +16 on a charge.) I still believe it's worth the attempt at only a 70% success rate.

Plan Over-The-Top-Barbarism:
(Assuming Jaeron shifts to K-21 and pushes Shifter 1 to M-19)

1. Ginagel can move to N-20, from where he will be able to hit Shifter 1.
2. Use Rage Strike coup de grace on Shifter 1 to guarantee an instant kill (other attacks won't work - you must deal the bloodied value in a single attack for an instant kill.)
3. Swift Charge triggers: Charge to L-20, taking an opportunity attack from Killian, and Howling Strike coup de grace Dwarf 3 for an instant kill. (That's why Jaeron moved Shifter 1: you need room to charge.)
4. Rampage triggers: Make a free basic melee attack against Killian.

Plan Safe Barbarism:
(Jaeron's move is exactly the same)

1. Ginagel can shift as a single move action to K-22
2. Use Hammer Fall coup de grace on Dwarf 1 to guarantee an instant kill (other attacks won't work - you must deal the bloodied value in a single attack for an instant kill.)
3. Swift Charge triggers: Charge to L-20, and Howling Strike coup de grace Shifter Sworsman 1 for a good shot at an instant kill. (That's why Jaeron moved Shifter 1: you need room to charge.)
4. Rampage triggers: Make a free basic melee attack against Killian, or against Shifter Swordsman 1 if you failed to kill him with the above attack.

This plan is slightly less likely to succeed (40.6% compared to 49% probability of total critical success) but it preserves a daily power and avoids all opportunity attacks, so it's a less bold but possibly superior option.

Thor doesn't have to do anything to set either plan in motion, so if Ginagel fails to kill Dwarf 3, then Thor can finish Dwarf Hammerer 3 with absolute certainty. Otherwise, he can more productively injure another dwarf. But despite what I said earlier, Ginagel one-shot-killing two full-health Soldiers in their sleep and whacking the BBEG all using a single Standard action is something to tell your grandchildren about! Is that Chaotic Evil enough?

If you're about to complain "Ginagel would never think through something like that" - he doesn't have to. Jaeron can just shove the shifter away and ask Ginagel to kill him (or kill the unconscious enemies) before the spell wears off. Everything else happens purely from triggered barbarian bloodlust and can be roleplayed as such.

Thank you for your patience and attention.

[HFLep]

Ok, that's actually a pretty damn good plan. I'm for it. Jaeron will move before Ginagel, and Thor afterward.

I'll keep him as reserve in case Shifter 2 drops to sleep and Ginagel takes the other two out. He can take a sleeping enemy out with his sneak attack+precise incision damage (total of 30+2d6), though the odds are far from certain.

I also need a bit of input on something else: Jaeron's Villian's Menace+weapon crit+weapon special property damage would be 25+1d6+1d8 damage. The dwarf hammerer needs 32 to die outright. These aren't super-great odds, about 60% I'd say. However, if shifter 2 drops, should I take the blow on the dwarf I'll be standing on, freeing Ginagel to charge shifter 2?

Edit: I just realized no. If Jaeron kills the dwarf, Ginagel will have no trigger. I'll do my part and just push the guys out of his way.

[Nocturnal]

I've edited my post above with an alternate version of that plan, since I challenged myself to prove there was no way to set up the charge on Shifter 1 and still pull it off. You can see it as "safe barbarism" because it keeps Ginagel from provoking any OAs. Also, the first plan doesn't have a real 49% "full critical success" chance. It's between 42-49% depending on how likely Killian is to mark Ginagel with his opportunity attack.

Actually your alternative plan works just fine as well. If Shifter 2 falls asleep, you can kill Dwarf 3 from right where you are (or shift one left to enjoy your stance some more.) Then Ginagel can move to M-21 and kill Shifter 1 with his Rage Strike, and charge from there at Shifter 2, very similar to the first plan. In fact, if both shifters are asleep at that time, he can even pull that off by himself without waiting for a push from you. So you can decide then between the two of you. That might actually be the best exploitation of the Sleep spell.

About Pendrax - I don't need an airstrike, I just think we might be be better off with one. I can keep them all distracted perfectly well just by standing there and taking the beating. So don't stress out about that one.

[HFLep]

All right. If shifter one falls asleep, I'll try to do just that.

The last possibility is also an idea that may work, and I think the odds are even better:

Jaeron uses tide of iron on sleeping dwarf 3 to push him to J 20. Ginagel attacks the sleeping Shifter 1 from M 21, then, if he kills him, uses his charge to get to the second shifter (if he's asleep) or the sleeping dwarf by moving to K 20. Then use the other attack on the other target. Thor can come in and flank and/or mop up. There should be no OA's in this route as well, and it would let Jaeron shift to a place where his stance can do more good afterward, plus let Thor move about a bit more freely too.

If Atropo didn't use his 'let someone re-roll an attack' power yet, he may want to give it to Ginagel in this round. It's important. And Ginagel should move to K 20 to let Thor be able to move in later, in case the dwarf wasn't killed and the shifter is still not asleep.

In fact, I think this is the best plan yet.

[sandrock]

Originally Posted by HFLep

Nuts, looks like DannoE made almost all of his sleep saves. Only one hammerer asleep.

Baslim, whatever you do, could you shift out of the spot you're in after you do it? It's exactly where I'd like to put Jaeron. He'd be able to get all four guys there with one of his attacks. Shifting to I 23 would be ideal for setting up a flank with Thor on hammerer 1.

Be happy to ;-) I'll probably do Sword Burst and see if B can hit the four around him, then shift.