Leadership and Cohort(s)

[songofsixpence]

Alright, the wording of the Leadership feat is this:

Originally Posted by SRD

Benefits: Having this feat enables the character to attract loyal companions and devoted followers, subordinates who assist her. See the table below for what sort of cohort and how many followers the character can recruit.
Leadership Modifiers: Several factors can affect a character’s Leadership score, causing it to vary from the base score (character level + Cha modifier). A character’s reputation (from the point of view of the cohort or follower he is trying to attract) raises or lowers his Leadership score:

However, in the DMG on pg. 104 it states there are no limits to the number of cohorts who can be employed by a character. The rest of the section follows suit even going to far as to say "loyal cohorts become trusted friends and long-time helpers". And on pg. 106 the DMG states that "A character of 6th level can start attracting cohorts and followers by taking the Leadership feat."

Now, as I read this, you can attract as many cohorts as you want/can afford to keep happy. Any idea on whether or not that is correct, and what the time-frame is for attracting new cohorts, and whether the -2 for having a pre-existing familiar/special mount/animal companion/whatever would stack (i.e. Lvl+Bonus for 1st cohort, Lvl+Bonus-2 for 2nd, etc.)?

[jj_wolven]

You get 1 cohort and many followers.

Example:
With a leadership score of 12 for a 10th level character, you can have 1 8th level cohort and 8 first level followers.
With a leadership score of 18 for a 14th level character, you can have 1 12th level cohort, 35 first level followers, 3 second level followers, 1 third level follower, and 1 fourth level follower.

Remember that you cohort must always be at least 2 levels below your character.

-me

[songofsixpence]

That doesn't make sense though, the DMG explicitly states that there is no limit to the number of cohorts you can have. RAW seems to indicate multiples are allowed.

Now, I certainly think that it's unbalanced that way. Because you could theoretically have a solo PC with an army of cohorts that are 2 less than the PC level. That would quickly become unstoppable. Does anybody know if Wizards ever made an official ruling about this?

[SpatulaOdoom]

You can have many cohorts, Leadership gives you 1 for "free".
The cohorts described on page 104 could be acquired by many means, either by DM fiat (Ie the church sends a paladin bodyguard to protect your cloistered cleric) or in the manner of a hireling (Your adventuring group sometimes hires a "trapsmith" to disarm traps and open difficult locks on spec, occasionally he has to defend himself), you saved the aging rangers family so in return he helps you with ranged support and wilderness skills whenever you are in the Easterlands region.
Basically the gist of cohorts is "They're skilled but usually lower level than the PC's, they can gain XP and levels, they have less say (and sometimes stake) in what's going on, they usually demand a share in the treasure from adventuring.

[jj_wolven]

*blink*

Well...not much I can say. The DMG actually does clearly state there isn't a limit of cohorts.

The DMG does give the DM a wide berth of decisions on how the cohort works though -not staying if treated badly. This is also one of the few feats that it explicity mentions the DM possibility of disallowing it.

-me

[DukeofDellot]

What? There are feats that actually bother telling the DM that he can disallow them? That's interesting... and with me unnecessary... I guess outlawing "Natural Spell" did eliminate all Druids.

Either way, the offical FAQ states that the leadership feat was made for groups uncomfortable with making decisions on the fly, rather than a real ruling... which reminds me of several other contradictions in the rules that really only made sense to me after reading "different groups need different rules" as stated every five or six pages in GURPS... alongside all those exclamation points!

The leadership feat seems like one I'd disallow if my players actually knew about it! Though I would rule it in a way similar to what SpatulaOdoom suggested, I'd like to know where that was stated. It's not necessary for me, and I doubt it would really effect me in the long run! Though I'm rather amused that the FAQ states that Leadership can grant you a dragon cohort as well as the followers while Dragon Cohort would just give you the cohort... or you could just luck out and play with a DM that would allow you to get the cohort without spending a feat at all!

In short, the official ruling seems to be "Ask your DM!" ...at least as far as I can tell.


I enjoy making unnecessary, unnecessarily long posts.

[Jondera]

I ran a heavily leadership-based game a while back, and the ruling I made back then was that if you wanted more than one cohort, you had to take more than one leadership-esque feat. One player took Leadership and Undead Leadership, resulting in two cohorts.

But yeah, technically there's no limit. Most DMs just don't allow more than 1 per person.

[songofsixpence]

Ah, that makes more sense to me. I suppose I'll just have to see how my current DM plays it out.

[loki_ragnarock]

You can have many cohorts, Leadership gives you 1 for "free".

This, this, a thousand times this. The definition of the word "cohort" is simply "a companion or associate." To say that characters have a set limit to people they can get along with or work beside is dumb, so the DMG says they can have as many as they can manage. However, the leadership feat grants a cohort that's loyal to you.
Likewise, the fighter class in second edition stated that at a certain level they got a keep and several followers; if they want to build an army, they can employ more soldiers than just the ones they received on a random roll... they just have to pay for them, and can't be as certain of their ultimate loyalties.

On a side note, I like to make sure that my cohorts granted by the leadership feat also take the leadership feat themselves whenever they are able.
It's good to be the king.

[Suhayl]

Originally Posted by loki_ragnarock

On a side note, I like to make sure that my cohorts granted by the leadership feat also take the leadership feat themselves whenever they are able.
It's good to be the king.

I have run/played in many campaigns with the Leadership feat, and almost every time we did this same thing. The key to having this feat and not letting it take over a campaign is maintaining the fact that the PCs are the heroes, and their followers are there as a backdrop (and to do the boring things, like laundry...) They are not combat meat shields and trap fodder, as much as some players would like to use them that way.

If you want mindless slaves, you need to be a Mindbender or Thrallherd.

-Suhayl

[Danteus]

They are not combat meat shields and trap fodder, as much as some players would like to use them that way.

No, you don't use loyal people for this. You hire some random bum for this. A lot of people forget just how much a few gp is to the average person. Toss 10gp at someone and you would be amazed at what they are will to do for you......

[jj_wolven]

A bit off topic, but semi-related thanks to Danteus.

Value of gold - quick comparison of modern to medieaval prices:
Breastplate set (breastplate, helm, greaves): Used its around $1000, new $2000 (200gp)
Helmets: A decent plain one is at least $100, up to $1500+
Swords: Cheap ones at $150, decent at $200. (10/15gp)

-me

[chaosaccountant]

Bear in mind what modern steel manufacturing techniques will have done to these prices.

[Naresh]

No, you don't use loyal people for this. You hire some random bum for this. A lot of people forget just how much a few gp is to the average person. Toss 10gp at someone and you would be amazed at what they are will to do for you......

Only for the lower levels. And if you have a sensible DM, I gave a gold piece to an old lady in one game, she thought nothing of it, Now, the DM had set the world up in your average fanasty world setting, on the verge of famine and war. I felt like smashing my head against the wall () after that 1 GP is the lifesaver every old woman (the average poor type ) wants, no income, living off scraps... 1 GP will buy you alot.

If I remember correctly 1cp is mug of cheapish ale, for a gold piece you can buy 100.

Convert this (roughly) into modern life, over here a cheap drink in the pub or bar will cost you just over £1 for half a pint (sounds roughly mug sized)

Now if 1cp is about £1 (roughly $2) 1 GP is alot, tossing 10GP (as has been said) is a heck of a donation... if someone gave me that I'd wonder what they wanted in return...

Sorry, just my little wandering thoughts on cash... all numbers used are very, very very rough

[Danteus]

half a pint (sounds roughly mug sized)

Actually they sold ale/mead back the in pints, not half-pints so you would have to double this. (Yeah they liked their ale back then )