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Old Aug 13th, 2011, 03:46 PM
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Blind Characters

So, there's a thing that pops up a lot in fantasy fiction, of the person who's blind, but gets around fine thanks to awesomeness/magic/plot device. But... there's not much of a way to implement this in 3.5/PF as written. So, houserule! *insert mad science noises here*

Blind: Your character is blind, and cannot see. However, they have some form of supernatural sense that allows them to detect nearby objects and people regardless. Treat them as being able to "see" such things within 30 feet of them, with differences as follows:
* Penalties for illumination/invisibility do not apply to you. Miss chances from non-visual reasons still apply.
* You must still make "Spot" checks to detect creatures within this range, though you automatically fail past it.
* You cannot read written words or notice changes in color, even within your range.
* You cannot be blinded, except through an effect that would cancel out your supernatural sense(such as dispel magic). Such effects last for 1d4 rounds if normally instantaneous, or the duration on the spell if not.
* You cannot be affected by effects with a Gaze type descriptor, or anything that would require visual input(like Flare).
* You cannot see in areas of antimagic.

New Feat: Extended Blindsense - Requires Blind. Your "spot" range increases to 60 feet.
New Feat: Expanded Blindsense - Requires Extended Blindsense, WIS 15. Your "spot" range increases to 120 feet.

Throw questions/critiques at my face, that I might eat them and grow fat!
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Last edited by Fragmaster01; Aug 13th, 2011 at 03:46 PM.
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Old Aug 13th, 2011, 10:09 PM
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Dice Ranged Attack Roll:
d20+2 (7)+2 Total = 9
Critique!
Does 18-20 make it a critical critique?

So - I like the thought, but I'm not sure it's necessary. First, there's the Listen/Move Silently function; then, there are ways of acquiring other options like Scent or Synesthete. (Although admittedly, I don't know what to roll against a Scent check.) Which leaves us with physical sensitivity - I suppose we could assume that under normal circumstances, a person accustomed to being blind can feel their way, and the presence of other people within a few (5?) feet with no difficulty. I might knock their move speed by a few feet to allow for this. All you'd really need is an Improved Blindfight to remove the attack penalties against concealment.

Upon further consideration, your Blindsense could make for interesting psionic feats.
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Old Aug 13th, 2011, 10:53 PM
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Well it would make sense to get some blindsense after a long time of being blind, but I don't know that it's fair to make a person spend a feat on it. SRD says "Characters who remain blinded for a long time grow accustomed to these drawbacks and can overcome some of them." I don't see why you couldn't just give them some blindsight (except maybe make them make Spot checks as normal? And/or give them blindsight to, like, 30ft, and blindsense 60ft, so farther away they can still function but not as well...)

I certainly don't think you need to make additional rules for how they function when you could use the existing blindsight/sense ones, perhaps with small modifications...
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Old Aug 14th, 2011, 12:51 AM
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It was more that Blindsense is written from the perspective of "Here's a monster thing, that some monsters have". Here, it spells out the exact specifics of what a character style blindsense would be, so as to have no confusion.

Also, the rules wouldn't apply to every character that happens to be blind, it's just that it's a common thing in fantasy to have that character that is technically blind, but through magic or whatnot detects their surroundings anyway, so this would be a way to represent those sorts of people.
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A satyr rises in the morning, and hangs the coffee mug on his horns, so that he won't lose it.
The coffee is done, but the mug isn't in its usual spot. Where did it go? He forgot.
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Old Aug 14th, 2011, 02:21 AM
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As I say, I like it - but I think the rules depend on the whatnot.
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Old Aug 14th, 2011, 03:22 AM
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Well yeah, I'm not saying that every blind character would get this - depends on how long they've been blind, possibly on what caused their blindness, and some other factors.

A number of PrC's can grant players blindsight/sense, so I don't see much need to rewrite it, again possibly apart from requiring spot checks (or listen checks in place of spot checks, there's an idea).

I still don't think this should be done in the form of feats, however.
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Old Aug 14th, 2011, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pathfinder SRD, Oracle's Curses
Clouded Vision: Your eyes are obscured, making it difficult for you to see. You cannot see anything beyond 30 feet, but you can see as if you had darkvision. At 5th level, this distance increases to 60 feet. At 10th level, you gain blindsense out to a range of 30 feet. At 15th level, you gain blindsight out to a range of 15 feet.
I think that probably works the best for any simulation of a blind character I have seen. I doesn't give them weird, sometimes powerful, senses from the start. I am in Sorator's camp, though, that you probably shouldn't make them spend feats (unless you give them it for free) since being blind is already a huge hinderance.
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Old Aug 16th, 2011, 02:08 PM
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Oracle curse is ok, but is supposed to be a special class ability as well as supernatural...and they aren't completely blind.

You can use a series of feats: Blind-Fight, Imp. Blind-Fight, Greater Blind-Fight
Then allow Blindsense, then Blindsight at higher level.
Blindsight is a huge advantage, so it should be limited. For an easier path, I would suggest (creating new feats where necessary): Blind-Fight, Blindsense 30-60', Blindsight 5'. Allow Blindsight to be taken multiple times, adding 5' on each time.

-me
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Last edited by jj_wolven; Aug 16th, 2011 at 02:09 PM.
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Old Aug 18th, 2011, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jj_wolven View Post
Oracle curse is ok, but is supposed to be a special class ability as well as supernatural...and they aren't completely blind.
I think that splitting a bit of a fine hair though. Being able to only see 30' around you (heck even 60') is incredibly limiting. I also thought Frag's request was for ideas for how to implement the sort of person is blind but has a way to overcome this through some means (like he mentions from certain fantasy texts) which is why I proffered the oracle class feature.

My issues with designing so many feats is that you essentially pigeon hole that character into only taking feats to make up for their limitation. To me, that seems like a rather unfair burden for something that is purely for the sake of RP. I think offering the oracle thing as one feat would prevent that sort of scenario. I also think it scales pretty nicely (blindsight at 15th is pretty high level). You could as scale some bits of it more (blindsense and blindsight).

Overall, I think it comes down to if you think players need to take a lot of mechanical things to overcome a largely RP choice. I think jj's system is valid if that's your play style just like I think mine is valid.
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Old Aug 22nd, 2011, 04:01 PM
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Splitting hairs, but making a point.
Also have to take how powerful these feats are into account.

I offer a feat that is a slight adjustment to oracle:

Blind
Your character is blind, but have made up for it with a combination of their other senses. They gain Blind Fight as a bonus feat at first level, as well as lindsense at 10', which increases by 10' for every two HD. Additionally at their second level/HD, they gain blindsight 5', which increases by 5' every 4 levels/HD.
They cannot distinguish color or read, but are not subject to gaze attacks nor visual illusions. Their increased hearing and other senses make them more vulnerable to attacks based on those senses, giving them a -1 to AC and +1 to DC against sonic and scent based attacks.

That gives them the ability to function immediately, then better at 2nd. Then improves them with the powerful blindsight, but balances it logically.

-me
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Old Aug 23rd, 2011, 01:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jj_wolven View Post
giving them a -1 to AC and +1 to DC against sonic and scent based attacks.
I would do -1 AC and -1 to whatever saving throw you have to make. Your wording right there is kind of weird, and a -1 to the throw makes more logical sense. How does my dependency on another sense make the wizard who casts Banshee's Wail better? I don't think it does which is why it should be reflected as penalty to the character as opposed to a bonus to the obstacle.

Also, you could probably ditch that last part for characters who don't use their senses to overcome their blindness (which Frag mentioned).
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Old Aug 23rd, 2011, 12:49 PM
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Sounds good on the penalty part.

This feat would apply to those who don't use magic to detect their surroundings, that would be a spell or ability of some sort which would have its own issues.

-me
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Old Aug 25th, 2011, 02:13 PM
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All sounds good to me. I like.
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EDIT: My brain is fight. Awkward MRIs don't help. Expect delays.
A satyr rises in the morning, and hangs the coffee mug on his horns, so that he won't lose it.
The coffee is done, but the mug isn't in its usual spot. Where did it go? He forgot.
  #14  
Old Aug 28th, 2011, 09:38 PM
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There are several ways to get different sorts of vision and sensory capabilities. Blindfold of True Darkness is one way to get Blindsight. Here is a thread that incidentally talks about the various methods of sensing things: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...?topic=11034.0
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