D&D illogic

[zevonian]

How much logic can one expect from any rpg system that offers the Wish spell?

[Classic Gamer]

What if you wish for a logical explanation?

[Astra]

Originally Posted by Classic Gamer

What if you wish for a logical explanation?

I think when that happens the DM declares the campaign over and you start rolling up some level 1s.

[zevonian]

The GM grants the wish by having a really smart wizard, complete with a pointy wizard's hat, appear to talk to the party. But since you didn't specify what you wanted to have logically explained, you get a clear presentation on something that doesn't much pertain to the plot, such as how the hat was crafted.

[silveroak]

What I eventually settled down with is that magic is in fact so prevalent that the concept of conservation of mass simply doesn't occur. Someone in the D&D universe hears you talk about cows gaining more weight than what they eat and goes "so?" The cost is that meat is blood, and consuming blood is dark- not so much that it's a day to day concern, but if you start feeding beef to cows to generate food you wind up with demonic cows.

This did, by a long convoluted route lead me to another even more bizzare ponderings- what happens if you replace someone's nutritional iron (spinach etc) with the same plants grown in adamantine enriched soil instead? Because don't tell me some sage or wizard somewhere hasn't tried it, and aside from going broke, cause adamantine is expensive, what would be the outcome? Thoughts?

[silveroak]

Originally Posted by Wynamoinen

I wouldn't call that illogic. D&D and its ilk are combat simulators, not farming simulators. The rules are designed to do some things well and ignore the rest. That's the game.

I flew by most of the points but wanted to address this, because of one simple point-
logistics is part of combat.

If I can move a massive force thousands of miles with a few farm animals to supply food and don't need a farming infrastructure and supply chain to provision them, or alternately need to destroy the land we are moving through to keep them fed, that is a major change in the tactical situation compared to the real world- realistically far greater than healing potions and fireballs.

[Wynamoinen]

Originally Posted by silveroak

...logistics is part of combat.

If I can move a massive force thousands of miles with a few farm animals to supply food and don't need a farming infrastructure and supply chain to provision them, or alternately need to destroy the land we are moving through to keep them fed, that is a major change in the tactical situation compared to the real world- realistically far greater than healing potions and fireballs.

That is certainly true in real war. But it's only important for a mechanical system of rules to reflect that truth if the game is intended to often involve prolonged strategic interactions of large armies. It's fine if that's what you want! Lots of people do. But it's clearly not what the designers of D&D 5e intended their players to focus on. They wrote rules for frequent small-scale individual-level fantasy combat.

If they thought large-scale campaign warfare is was an important part of the game they were designing, they would have made the To be honest, they would have actually made rules at all! 5e just doesn't model large-scale warfare in any useful way.rules clearer and more consistent. Again, you design rules to focus on the things your game is "about". Large scale warfare is a different game than D&D 5e, so of course 5e's warfare rules are absurd. It's not about that.

D&D is also a game that, by design, is barely about Where are the mechanics for Love? Dependence? Honor? Social Status?interpersonal social interactions, as much as I might like it to be better and clearer in that area. I play other game systems, designed to focus on social interaction, when I really want to delve into that aspect of the human experience.

[silveroak]

I created my own rules to handle social conflict- though mostly to assess experience points from social conflict, in Carlsport, but really if you have rules for love, dependence, and honor you really aren't roleplaying at that point, you are emotive-simming. There are systems which base experience on roleplaying instead of conflict, but...
the fact is that the answer "well that isn't what this game is meant to do" is a really lame response from my perspective- largely because it is reducing roleplaying to a game of (metaphorical) hammers and nails.

[Wynamoinen]

Originally Posted by silveroak

the fact is that the answer "well that isn't what this game is meant to do" is a really lame response from my perspective- largely because it is reducing roleplaying to a game of (metaphorical) hammers and nail]s.

This is both an unkind and unfair representation of the perspective I'm trying to share. I'll depart the conversation.

[Jab Burrwalky]

Originally Posted by silveroak

I flew by most of the points but wanted to address this, because of one simple point-
logistics is part of combat.

If I can move a massive force thousands of miles with a few farm animals to supply food and don't need a farming infrastructure and supply chain to provision them, or alternately need to destroy the land we are moving through to keep them fed, that is a major change in the tactical situation compared to the real world- realistically far greater than healing potions and fireballs.

Adventurer, Conqueror, King (OSR b/x clone) actually tried to address a lot of this sort of economics/logistics issues so that the game would consistently scale from 1st level adventuring to max level characters commanding legions around the hex map. They did a pretty good job for a lot of things, but I haven't read the rules for actual military campaigns and how they handle supply trains/raiding/pillaging/foraging on the large scale. It does make the game kinda math heavy, but its very internally consistent and in the ballpark of real world economics.

[Admin Dirk]

Most days, I can barely stand to work with the people in my office.

I cannot imagine what I would do, if we all met at a tavern, and they decided to go into a dark dungeon with me, and I was armed with weapons.

Probably why DnD has no HR.

[Crimson]

Originally Posted by Jab Burrwalky

Adventurer, Conqueror, King (OSR b/x clone) actually tried to address a lot of this sort of economics/logistics issues so that the game would consistently scale from 1st level adventuring to max level characters commanding legions around the hex map. They did a pretty good job for a lot of things, but I haven't read the rules for actual military campaigns and how they handle supply trains/raiding/pillaging/foraging on the large scale. It does make the game kinda math heavy, but its very internally consistent and in the ballpark of real world economics.

If you're this deep into RPGs, then you're already swimming in math up to your eyeholes. No point in shying away from just a touch more.