Mechanics Banning darkviwion - Page 2 - RPG Crossing
RPG Crossing Home Forums Create An Account! Site Rules & Help

RPG Crossing
Follow RPG Crossing! facebook bluesky

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #16  
Old Dec 19th, 2024, 11:59 AM
Acathala's Avatar
Acathala Acathala is online now
His divine shadow
 
Tools
User Statistics
Last Visit: Feb 8th, 2025
RPXP: 12881
Acathala Acathala Acathala Acathala Acathala Acathala Acathala Acathala Acathala Acathala Acathala
Posts: 24,104
It sounds like the issue is more about the player than the mechanic. You both may have different expectations for the game. I’d suggest talking to the guy again with that in mind. Sometimes people and games are just incompatible.
__________________
Quia iocari libet mihi
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old Dec 19th, 2024, 02:33 PM
HexCursed's Avatar
HexCursed HexCursed is online now
Sport-mode princess
 
Tools
User Statistics
Last Visit: Feb 8th, 2025
RPXP: 2163
HexCursed HexCursed HexCursed HexCursed HexCursed HexCursed HexCursed HexCursed HexCursed HexCursed HexCursed
Posts: 1,740
Well... The Halfling Rogue is a stereotype that seems to border on racism. But it's a good question: Why not a Halfling rogue despite them not having darkvision? Why is darkvision necessary, or more broadly, does it enhance the game experience? I mean, for players who are interested in things other than power fantasies.
__________________
*
Dare to be different!

Last edited by HexCursed; Dec 19th, 2024 at 02:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old Dec 20th, 2024, 01:05 AM
wodine's Avatar
wodine wodine is online now
The Lord of Gifts
 
Tools
User Statistics
Last Visit: Feb 8th, 2025
RPXP: 36010
wodine wodine wodine wodine wodine wodine wodine wodine wodine wodine wodine
Posts: 15,032
Quote:
Originally Posted by HexCursed View Post
Well... The Halfling Rogue is a stereotype that seems to border on racism. But it's a good question: Why not a Halfling rogue despite them not having darkvision? Why is darkvision necessary, or more broadly, does it enhance the game experience? I mean, for players who are interested in things other than power fantasies.
It can give the shy dwarf a chance a lead, it can gives the combat wizard a utility spell to spend, it let's the elf take watch in the middle of the night without having to have light a fire while the hobgoblins are on patrol.

Like everything else it is scenario dependent.

Regardless, it seems you've already made your decision, which you are free to do at your table.
__________________
Alert: You too could join the illustrious ranks of site moderator. Apply within.
Don't be afraid to use all the colors in the crayon box.
Pronouns: He/They
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old Dec 20th, 2024, 04:33 PM
The Rat Queen's Avatar
The Rat Queen The Rat Queen is offline
The Archfriend.
 
Tools
User Statistics
Last Visit: Feb 8th, 2025
RPXP: 33803
The Rat Queen The Rat Queen The Rat Queen The Rat Queen The Rat Queen The Rat Queen The Rat Queen The Rat Queen The Rat Queen The Rat Queen The Rat Queen
Posts: 10,008
Late chiming in here, but I'm always leery of banning features designed to balance the game as a reflex, especially if the rationale is that not all characters have that ability. That's like banning magic because at higher levels it puts fighters at a disadvantage, or banning sharpshooter because others only have thrown weapons.

I think the challenge as a player is to manage the advantages and disadvantages each species, class, and subclass offers, as well as feats, weapons, and spells chosen. The challenge as a GM is to mitigate those choices with encounters to make sure all the players get a chance to shine. Personally, the best way to do that is to put the characters into situations where they need each other, because all strengths are different. The fighters protect the mages until they start tossing fireballs. The clerics keep the group alive until they can move on to utility spells. And those without darkvision either take steps to keep from going blind (lanterns, light spells, blindfighting feat, etc.) or find a way to work with others to get through (think of the roleplay of a mage with darkvision directing the fighter to within 5' of an enemy so they can at least roll with disadvantage).

Eliminating things that give one character advantage over others is kind of running counter to what the game is all about. I always figured the point was for everyone to have a specific area where they shine, and a group to back them up in other moments.
__________________
Oh, after all the folderol and hauling over coals stops, what did I learn?
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old Dec 20th, 2024, 05:04 PM
HexCursed's Avatar
HexCursed HexCursed is online now
Sport-mode princess
 
Tools
User Statistics
Last Visit: Feb 8th, 2025
RPXP: 2163
HexCursed HexCursed HexCursed HexCursed HexCursed HexCursed HexCursed HexCursed HexCursed HexCursed HexCursed
Posts: 1,740
I have a new but related question: what (if anything) can a DM decide that they din't want in their game?

Some examples for consideration:
1) The game is set in the Elder Scrolls world, therefore players may not make Halfling, Gnome, or Dwarf characters.
2) The world has no moon, so there are no Circle of the Moon druids.
3) The GM wants magic to be more rare and powerful. No cantrips exist. All spells gain a +1 to their DC and attack bonus.
4) The DM thinks it doesn't make sense that a character can spend 5 minutes with a magic item and know what it does. An Identify spell is required.
5) Firearms don't exist.
__________________
*
Dare to be different!

Last edited by HexCursed; Dec 20th, 2024 at 05:06 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old Dec 20th, 2024, 06:45 PM
Alemar's Avatar
Alemar Alemar is offline
Dread Wyrm
 
Tools
User Statistics
Last Visit: Feb 8th, 2025
RPXP: 15056
Alemar Alemar Alemar Alemar Alemar Alemar Alemar Alemar Alemar Alemar Alemar
Posts: 7,535
Quote:
Originally Posted by wodine View Post
I am not as proficient as 5e as 3.5 or PF but Devils sight specifically says 'darkness.' Is the moon out? Is a candle lit? Bam enjoy your dim lighting.
"Vision and Light" Pg. 183 PHB (2014)Bright Light - lets most creatures see normally. Even gloomy days provide bright light, as do torches, lanters, fires, and other sources of illumination within their specified radius.

Dim Light - also called "Shadows", creates a lightly obscured area. Dim light is usually the boundary between bright light, such as a torch and surrounding darkness. The soft light of twilight and dawn also count as dim light. A brilliant full moon might bathe the land in dim light.

Darkness - creates a heavily obscured area. Characters face darkness outdoors at night (even most moonlit nights), within the confines of an unlit dungeon, or subterranean vault, or an area of magical darkness.

Darkvision - Many creatures in the world of D&D, especially those that dwell underground, have dark vision. Within a specified range, a creature with dark vision can see in darkness as if the darkness were dim light. So areas of darkness are only lightly obscured as far as that creature is concerned. However, that creature can not discern color in darkness, only shades of grey.


If they're in "Dim light" they can still see... and with Devil's sight they can see out to 120 feet regardless of if the darkness beyond is magical or not... but I guess it's up to you as DM to determine what "lightly obscured" means
__________________
We will break away Together... I'll be the Shadow, You'll be the Light. Nothing ever lasts Forever... We will go softly into the Night.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old Dec 20th, 2024, 06:49 PM
Alemar's Avatar
Alemar Alemar is offline
Dread Wyrm
 
Tools
User Statistics
Last Visit: Feb 8th, 2025
RPXP: 15056
Alemar Alemar Alemar Alemar Alemar Alemar Alemar Alemar Alemar Alemar Alemar
Posts: 7,535
Quote:
Originally Posted by HexCursed View Post
I have a new but related question: what (if anything) can a DM decide that they didn't want in their game?

Some examples for consideration:
1) The game is set in the Elder Scrolls world, therefore players may not make Halfling, Gnome, or Dwarf characters.
2) The world has no moon, so there are no Circle of the Moon druids.
3) The GM wants magic to be more rare and powerful. No cantrips exist. All spells gain a +1 to their DC and attack bonus.
4) The DM thinks it doesn't make sense that a character can spend 5 minutes with a magic item and know what it does. An Identify spell is required.
5) Firearms don't exist.
Rule 0 : As DM you have sole discretion for what happens in your world, as long as all restrictions are presented BEFORE the game begins. So all of your examples seem to be reasonable.

It might be a bit more difficult if you tried to implement something like no cantrips or no moon druids halfway through a game though as that could have serious impacts on player's enjoyment of their characters
__________________
We will break away Together... I'll be the Shadow, You'll be the Light. Nothing ever lasts Forever... We will go softly into the Night.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old Dec 20th, 2024, 09:00 PM
The Rat Queen's Avatar
The Rat Queen The Rat Queen is offline
The Archfriend.
 
Tools
User Statistics
Last Visit: Feb 8th, 2025
RPXP: 33803
The Rat Queen The Rat Queen The Rat Queen The Rat Queen The Rat Queen The Rat Queen The Rat Queen The Rat Queen The Rat Queen The Rat Queen The Rat Queen
Posts: 10,008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alemar View Post
Rule 0 : As DM you have sole discretion for what happens in your world, as long as all restrictions are presented BEFORE the game begins. So all of your examples seem to be reasonable.

It might be a bit more difficult if you tried to implement something like no cantrips or no moon druids halfway through a game though as that could have serious impacts on player's enjoyment of their characters
Totally agree with Alemar.

To answer specifically some of the things mentioned:

1) The game is set in the Elder Scrolls world, therefore players may not make Halfling, Gnome, or Dwarf characters. Nothing wrong with sticking to the lore the world is based on, especially an established world like Elder Scrolls.
2) The world has no moon, so there are no Circle of the Moon druids. This seems a bit specific, to be honest, like you just don't want Moon druids. I'd at least pad it a bit, such as explaining the effect not having a moon has upon the world. Are there tides, and if so, how? Are there star druids, or druids that worship nearby planets? Was there a moon previously, and if so, what happened to it? If you don't want Moon Druids, cool, but something that noticeable should come with a healthy dose of world lore to explain it. What if there is a moon, but it's dead because the moon goddess was killed? Still no druids, but maybe there could be a quest to restore or replace the moon god/dess?
3) The GM wants magic to be more rare and powerful. No cantrips exist. All spells gain a +1 to their DC and attack bonus. Totally reasonable, and potentially a lot of fun. I'd go a step further and maybe limit the amount of spellcaster applications accepted. Definitely give it depth by enforcing the social aspect of such a world, where people aren't as blase' about it. Magic would command deep respect and/or great fear, people in positions of power would seek to control or eliminate genuine magicians, other magic users might seek to collaborate or destroy competition, peasants might start gathering pitchforks and torches, etc. Also, in the absence of magic, has technology increased to fill in the gap? Are there more artificers, or is the world on the verge of an industrial revolution?
4) The DM thinks it doesn't make sense that a character can spend 5 minutes with a magic item and know what it does. An Identify spell is required. Sounds reasonable, though I'd allow alternatives, such as some research done, a high Arcana roll, Legend Lore spell, various clerical spells to ask the gods. Simply knowing the qualities of a magic item shouldn't be too much of a trial, I'd think, but I agree that just noticing it in a treasure pile doesn't necessarily convey knowledge. "Ah, cool, the tag on the inside says it's a Ring of Wishes with two charges left!"
5) Firearms don't exist. Seems pretty standard to me. From what I've seen, it's more of a necessity to mention when they do exist. Good to know when that extends to other sorts of combustion, though, such as for Artificers. You might consider alternatives if those classes are allowed and affected, or just make people aware of the setting.
__________________
Oh, after all the folderol and hauling over coals stops, what did I learn?

Last edited by The Rat Queen; Dec 20th, 2024 at 09:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old Dec 21st, 2024, 01:18 AM
wodine's Avatar
wodine wodine is online now
The Lord of Gifts
 
Tools
User Statistics
Last Visit: Feb 8th, 2025
RPXP: 36010
wodine wodine wodine wodine wodine wodine wodine wodine wodine wodine wodine
Posts: 15,032
I disagree, and I think this is a big area where playing on the site and playing at a table strongly differ.

Rule 0 states that the DM has the authority to change, modify, ignore, or add to the rules as they see fit to ensure the game is fun and runs smoothly.

A DM is not a tyrant ruling over their players. This is a collaborative game.

Now because of the way pbp is set up, it behooves us to be more structured and set the rules as they are and just see who is okay playing in that sandbox but at a table there is a certain give and take that is necessary.

Oh there's no moon? Okay why can't we just call them Druids of the Claw. Same abilities, same flavor, just no mention of the moon. You can set your world in the Elder Scrolls if that's where people want to play but if you set the game in Elder Scrolls but your players want to play in the Forgotten Realms then you're going to have more problems than whether someone is a halfling.

Similarly getting rid of cantrips eliminates a lot of utility from people especially if they just don't exist. How do you prestidigitation or send a message? Are they a level 1 spells now? Casters no longer have a reliant method of doing things in combat after they use their 2 spells. I grew up in the era of a level 1 wizard has one spell and afterwards you don't do anything and I certainly don't want to go back.

If you and your players all agree to the game then that's great and yeah you can do whatever you want balance be damned, but the DM shouldn't decide alone what is and isn't in the game just because it is 'their' game, at least at a table.
__________________
Alert: You too could join the illustrious ranks of site moderator. Apply within.
Don't be afraid to use all the colors in the crayon box.
Pronouns: He/They

Last edited by wodine; Dec 21st, 2024 at 01:22 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old Dec 21st, 2024, 02:56 PM
page6e23's Avatar
page6e23 page6e23 is offline
Young Adult Dragon
 
Tools
User Statistics
Last Visit: Jan 23rd, 2025
RPXP: 150
page6e23 page6e23
Posts: 90
As for the original post, I totally agree with Hexcursed.

Because the post was about bringing back the basic narrative that the dark is scary, and that nightvision totally destroys this sentiment.

Whether it's a good thing in a game or not, fully depends on the players. And pbp is exactly about this: if you want dark to be scary again, you make a game ad and if players apply, then you'll have a game in which the dark is scary.

PS:
There's a game out there based exactly on this premise

Last edited by page6e23; Dec 21st, 2024 at 02:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old Dec 27th, 2024, 01:15 PM
HexCursed's Avatar
HexCursed HexCursed is online now
Sport-mode princess
 
Tools
User Statistics
Last Visit: Feb 8th, 2025
RPXP: 2163
HexCursed HexCursed HexCursed HexCursed HexCursed HexCursed HexCursed HexCursed HexCursed HexCursed HexCursed
Posts: 1,740
So, it seems like there a 2 schools of thought on the subject. One group is like: make changes if your players are on board with them. Or, two, don't ever limit player choice; Your world has to have everything in it that's in any book or wiki.
__________________
*
Dare to be different!

Last edited by HexCursed; Dec 27th, 2024 at 01:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:32 PM.
Skin by Birched, making use of original art by paiute.(© 2009-2012)


RPG Crossing, Copyright ©2003 - 2025, RPG Crossing Inc; powered by vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Template-Modifications by TMB