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Old Sep 9th, 2017, 12:22 AM
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Application for Review - Qwerty II

System: Pathfinder

Link to App. Link to original advert.

Application StatusApplication complete.
Qwerty II
right-aligned image
Name: Qwerty II. "You can call me 'Q'."

Race: Android

Gender: Male

Class: Swashbuckler (Inspired Blade) into Magus (Kensai)

Alignment: Chaotic Good

Group Role: Explosive Frontline Tank & Knowledge Expert

Flaw/Traits: Effect: You take a –2 penalty on Diplomacy checks and must speak slowly due to the concentration required. Unless stated otherwise, you are assumed to not be speaking at a volume above a whisper.Anxious, Benefits: You gain a +2 trait bonus on Knowledge checks to identify alien monsters’ abilities and weaknesses. In addition, you gain a +1 trait bonus on Knowledge (geography) checks, and this skill is a class skill for you. You are treated as if you possessed the Technologist feat for the purposes of resolving checks to identify an alien creature using a Knowledge skill and for all Knowledge (geography) checks. If you already possess the Technologist feat, then your trait bonus on Knowledge (geography) checks increases to +3.Stargazer, Benefit: You gain a +1 trait bonus on Knowledge (nature) and Knowledge (planes) checks, and one of these skills becomes a class skill for youSpiritual Forester, Benefit: Once per day when you make an Intelligence-based skill check or ability check, you can roll twice and take the better result.Tireless Logic


Description
 


Personality
 


Backstory
 


Combat
 


Initial Impressions
 


About the Author
 



Is there a rule against posting more than one application for review at a time? I didn't see one, but apologies if it's not allowed. Thank you so much for taking time to stop by! Comments and impressions appreciated, even if you've only time for a cursory glance. (I'm sorry it's so long!)
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Last edited by Zugzwang; Sep 9th, 2017 at 12:22 AM.
  #2  
Old Sep 9th, 2017, 03:25 PM
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I figured I'd reply here, rather than in the General Discussion thread. Each paragraph is an isolated point, presented in roughly the order I noticed them.

Right off the bat, you used text larger than size 3, colored for no apparent reason. If I didn't know better I'd think you were padding the application to make it seem larger than it is, given that you've used about four lines of text worth of vertical space for "Name". As I expand the large number of nested spoilerbuttons, I find plenty of text, so there's no real reason for this padding.

It looks like you've used a popular video game protagonist for your character art. I can't speak for Insacrum, but if it were me, that would be a dealbreaker. I'd rather see no art at all than "just another picture of Geralt from The Witcher". There's a huge quantity of amazing and unique character art on the internet, and I don't think I'm the only one who considers it lazy to use a picture of a character as well known as Geralt.

I think you could do better on character naming in the future. One, you've got the character named after a modern keyboard layout in a Pathfinder Iron Gods game. If that fact, stated as such, doesn't seem slightly broken to you on its face, then I'll describe it simply as a glaring immersion break. This is again something related to personal preference to some degree, but I don't think it's going to help you in any instance. It'll either be something the GM doesn't care about, or it'll count against you. Names are important; don't phone them in.

In most cases, unless it's asked for, I recommend that you don't supply the character's intended progression past the starting level on the application. It's unnecessary information, and can be considered a "bad smell" - that is, a warning sign. In APs, this is probably not a big deal, but in games written by their GMs, excessive mechanical fixation at the application stage is likely to count against you.

Your prose wanders arbitrarily from past tense to present tense and back in the description and personality sections. Either tense would be acceptable, but consistency is important. Part of this is that at various times you break off and wander into the weeds describing the origin of a pair of boots or other attire - as much as that was probably fun to write, it's excessive and off-topic. I recommend picking no more than one favorite piece of kit and explaining it somewhere, and leaving it at that.

Your "Backstory" section is good from a construction and composition standpoint, but to be honest, I'm left with the impression that this application struggles from Video Game Protagonist syndrome. The origins scene could be something out of an action RPG tutorial, and in all three scenes provided in the background section, the character has no allies to demonstrate interactions with. The problem with that is that you aren't applying to be the sole protagonist, you're applying to be the writer for one of five or so protagonists in an adventure game, where interactions with the other characters as equals is going to be a major part of what you post. Internal monologue and distinction between internal logic and what is outwardly expressed is all well and good, but if "gruff, standoffish, and logical" is all you have for interactions with other characters outside of a combat crisis, then you're not demonstrating anything good about the contents of your posts in a game thread. This is a problem with a lot of highly secretive character concepts - they don't leave room to actually engage in interpersonal interactions, unless another character goes out of their way to invade personal space (and most won't).
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  #3  
Old Sep 9th, 2017, 11:05 PM
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Thank you for taking the time to review this, and also for writing the application lecture series! I'm grateful for the feedback regarding formatting, the picture, and the name.

I don't play video games, so I guess I had that one coming. Props to the artist for that game! I would've never known if you didn't point that out, so I will certainly plug in pictures in a reverse image search in the future to avoid that next time.

Thanks for pointing out that about progression and builds, I'll keep those ideas to myself in the future.

Man, the tense thing should've been obvious to catch, but I guess I read and re-read my own app so many times that I ended up with tunnel vision.

Huh, I've never heard of Video Game Protagonist syndrome, or rather, the concept of it. Your explanation of why it'd have negative consequences completely makes sense, and I agree. I simply didn't think about apps from that angle before, thank you! Looks similar to the concept you introduced in one of your lectures—the one with the NPC who was both created and killed off in the app.

I really appreciate the time you put into this!
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  #4  
Old Sep 10th, 2017, 03:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zugzwang View Post
Huh, I've never heard of Video Game Protagonist syndrome, or rather, the concept of it. Your explanation of why it'd have negative consequences completely makes sense, and I agree. I simply didn't think about apps from that angle before, thank you! Looks similar to the concept you introduced in one of your lectures—the one with the NPC who was both created and killed off in the app.
Introducing NPCs in backstory sections or RP samples is a way of showing your character interacting with others as equals in the past. Killing them off is just a way of tying up loose ends while simultaneously demonstrating the character's reaction to hardship and loss. I mention it in the guide, but it bears repeating - a scene where everything is going wrong is a more interesting RP sample than a scene where things are going suspiciously right.

These days I tend to keep named backstory NPCs alive (or at least, presumed dead but not guaranteed dead), so the GM can introduce them into the game at inconvenient times. You don't want to clean up all your loose ends, because GMs love playing with characters who have a few fraying threads to tug on now and again to keep things interesting.
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Old Sep 10th, 2017, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zugzwang View Post
Man, the tense thing should've been obvious to catch, but I guess I read and re-read my own app so many times that I ended up with tunnel vision.
As an admittedly neurotic Game Master, I can't stress how important a second pair of eyes is if you have even the slightest tendency to allow tense to wander. While a player need not be Shakespeare, consistency improves readability and flow to a tremendous degree. I have absolutely declined applications that couldn't hold it together.




As to my personal take, I won't rehash everything that Aeternis said, but I will say that his analysis is spot-on. He's a good one to take advice from on this subject.

Keep in mind that Pathfinder Androids aren't true automata. They have souls in synthetic bodies. Treating them as true machines with programming is counter to their established lore. Do with that as you wish.

As a GM, I want to thank you for seeking assistance rather than just relying on ego. I also want to encourage you to continue to try to improve. Dedicated players are always in short supply. Keep it up.
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Old Sep 11th, 2017, 11:47 PM
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My problem with this application boils down to show don't tell and hide your thesaurus.

You go into a list of things that the character is and don't show those things in action. Better would be the other way round - show those traits in action. How can gestures suggest bizarre amicability and sharp intellect? What does that even mean? He stinks of alcohol but you never address that again. How does an aura of angst project?

Gallimaufry is a good way of describing the character, but only because he's a jumbled mess. Pick a theme, build around it and show the readers how it emerges. We don't get much from a description of bizarrely amicable gestures, but if you walk up to an NPC and do a face waterfall that is much more evocative.

How do all these things cohere into a playable whole? Does this character have any hope of playing in a group? Were I the GM these two questions would be the top of my mind. The GM has a limited number of players they can offer a game to, your job as a player is to make the application stand out as one that they would want to interact with for the next year.

I'd suggest that the next time you do an application, post it here for review before submitting it and definitely before the game deadline has passed.

Also, if this comes across as cranky, please forgive me, it's been a very long day.
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Old Sep 12th, 2017, 12:58 AM
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Thanks, all, for the feedback! I'm glad to have learned from a failure.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeternis View Post
Introducing NPCs in backstory sections or RP samples is a way of showing your character interacting with others as equals in the past. Killing them off is just a way of tying up loose ends while simultaneously demonstrating the character's reaction to hardship and loss. I mention it in the guide, but it bears repeating - a scene where everything is going wrong is a more interesting RP sample than a scene where things are going suspiciously right.

These days I tend to keep named backstory NPCs alive (or at least, presumed dead but not guaranteed dead), so the GM can introduce them into the game at inconvenient times. You don't want to clean up all your loose ends, because GMs love playing with characters who have a few fraying threads to tug on now and again to keep things interesting.
Thanks for the advice! I did my best to apply those two particular pearls to a current application, so we'll see how that one goes. (I linked it in case anyone was curious. While I'm always open to feedback, I'm not particularly seeking it for that app since so few applied.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziether View Post
Keep in mind that Pathfinder Androids aren't true automata. They have souls in synthetic bodies. Treating them as true machines with programming is counter to their established lore. Do with that as you wish.
Thanks for the reminder. I remember reading that when I was researching Pathfinder androids, but later went with the robotic interpretation in an attempt to communicate a normal charisma of 6. Your point is spot-on, though--I think the DM commented that the robotic-ness was one of the deciding factors against the application. In retrospect, a better way to portray a low-charisma android might have been to give it a full range of emotions, and instead handicap its ability to express them to others.


Quote:
Originally Posted by roninkelt View Post
My problem with this application boils down to show don't tell and hide your thesaurus.

You go into a list of things that the character is and don't show those things in action. Better would be the other way round - show those traits in action. How can gestures suggest bizarre amicability and sharp intellect? What does that even mean? He stinks of alcohol but you never address that again. How does an aura of angst project?

Gallimaufry is a good way of describing the character, but only because he's a jumbled mess. Pick a theme, build around it and show the readers how it emerges. We don't get much from a description of bizarrely amicable gestures, but if you walk up to an NPC and do a face waterfall that is much more evocative.

How do all these things cohere into a playable whole? Does this character have any hope of playing in a group? Were I the GM these two questions would be the top of my mind. The GM has a limited number of players they can offer a game to, your job as a player is to make the application stand out as one that they would want to interact with for the next year.
I tried the "show, don't tell" approach with a previous application (I think you might've commented there, it was the Orin Stormfoot one), to the extent that instead of saying a word about personality, I simply told a story. Before getting all of this fantastic feedback from kind volunteers all over, I thought the problem was the fact that I "showed" and didn't "tell."

From a literary writing standpoint, I wholeheartedly agree and did not enjoy tossing out a bunch of adjectives onto the screen, either. Experience seemed to suggest that rules of normal good writing don't apply here. For example, a cursory glance at the selected list of winning applications (perhaps not this particular game, but across the site) suggests that cliches are often selected over novel concepts, contrary to the advice that I've been receiving. Likewise, "winning apps" also appear to exhibit "tell, don't show" more often than not. I'm still not sure what to believe.

I think that's a great point regarding the jumbled mess. The alcohol deserved an allusion somewhere else, and the description of friendly gestures certainly deserved evidence as well. On the other hand, I felt as though I did all of those things correctly in that other application, so this was kind of a desperate attempt to try something different and throw the kitchen sink at the screen.

I keep referencing the other app since I (wrongly) used it as a learning experience for crafting this one. I guess the lesson learned is that it's important to come here and find out why an app is good or bad, and not brush off rejected apps as "everything was wrong, don't do that again."
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  #8  
Old Sep 12th, 2017, 01:04 PM
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I want to add the comment that a good, fully fleshed character is like an iceberg. 90% of what the player knows about the character may never come out into the open, but it informs every action that the character makes. You don't have to be explicit about every trait of the character in an application, but the player does need to know all these details to present a coherent whole.

Build a character up from their basic needs/motives and values. From motives, needs and values come desires. From desires flow actions. Those are the three dimensions of character. When a characters needs, motives or values conflict that is where conflicts and dilemmas come into play and become the real meat of character development.
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Old Sep 12th, 2017, 01:09 PM
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Ronin speaks the truth. The GM doesn't need to be told everything, and you don't necessarily have to nail everything down when you write up the character. Having enough points to influence choices is important, though. Have those, but only give the GM the handful that are the cornerstones of the character's personality. The rest are to guide your roleplaying choices, but would be boring or overwhelming if explicitly stated.

Essentially, your goal should be to convince the GM that your character is a realistic person who fits the scenario presented, not to have every detail perfect. Real people grow and change, and so do RP characters. Sometimes less is absolute more.
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Last edited by Ziether; Sep 12th, 2017 at 01:09 PM.
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