[Information] Questions, you say? Let them come.

[dbaque]

Fendrith, if gestalting two casting classes (e.g. half caster and 3/4 caster), do you still combine the spell lists and mp totals of each? And cast all your spells at the higher caster level of the two?

[Chukie1188]

Each class has it's own separate caster level if I recall you wouldn't combine them if you multiclassed and you don't combine them in gestalt afaik MP might be combined cause of EoM but that you'll need to wait for fendrith for.

Originally Posted by PFSRD

A spell's power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to her class level in the class she's using to cast the spell.

[dbaque]

The conundrum is that under EoM you do combine caster levels and spell lists for multiclassing. Thus, how does it work with gestalt?

[Chukie1188]

Eh I'd say you get the higher caster level of your 3/4 progression then but what do I know

[Fendrith]

Here's what we're going to do --> We're keeping arcane and divine separate in this sense. Arcane caster levels cannot be combined with divine caster levels. Now if I'm paladin 8 | Cleric 8, I will cast *all* of my spells at a caster level of 6, or rather your mp limit is 6. (the cleric caster level). Best of both. If you're Magus 8 | Wizard 8, your mp limit is 8.

[SolarDragon]

Er, shouldn't the first example be 8, or did you mean AVERAGE not best Fendrith? o.O

[TheMystic]

Don't know if this was covered elsewhere, but are we using the pathfinder system whereby we can cast as many cantrips as we want, or are we limited as per EoM?

[TheMystic]

Just to clarify some of the above (I somehow missed the Gestalt mention until now), apart from the MP limit, do we get an effectively doubled caster level (such as the spell lists and MP)

[dbaque]

Originally Posted by SolarDragon

Er, shouldn't the first example be 8, or did you mean AVERAGE not best Fendrith? o.O

Clerics/oracles are 3/4 casters, ergo CL6 at L8. Their caster level and mp limit are boosted for spells within their domains/mystery, per the EoM Cleric in the book (I don't know whether it's in the linked copy). I think the boost is +1 at 1st and +1 per every 4 levels afterward (5th, 9th, etc.). The effect is that clerics/oracles are full casters for their domain spells, but limited with others.

Originally Posted by TheMystic

Just to clarify some of the above (I somehow missed the Gestalt mention until now), apart from the MP limit, do we get an effectively doubled caster level (such as the spell lists and MP)

See below. Basically, for two gestalted full caster classes, you have 2x the spell list and mp. Signature spells # and mp limit are still at your highest caster level.

Originally Posted by SolarDragon

Are caster levels stacking or independent for EoM gestalt? (e.g is a 8/8 sorc/wiz a level 16 or two level 8's that have their own MP and spell lists that don't cross over?)

Originally Posted by Fendrith

Sorry, you can cross the mp and spell lists - Doesn't make sense to me for you not to be able to, but your caster level is still 8. They don't stack. Best of both.

[SolarDragon]

I get the domain thing, but I still don't get why that makes them 3/4 casters, especially for Oracles who don't actually have any extra spells per day, but start with more. If that's true, screw EoM for gimping divine casters completely.
Fendrith, are you playing like this for Oracles as well?

[TheMystic]

Thanks for that dbaque, I thought I'd seen that before, but couldn't seem to find it again.

[Fendrith]

Signature spells are your highest caster level, but you get to add both relevant casting stats if you're gestalting two classes that use separate ones. You only get to add your relevant stat once if you're using two classes that have the same stat. This is to help out MAD a small bit. SolarDragon, what makes them 3/4 casters is their BAB, quite frankly. It should be noted that while this may initially seem like a nerf, the versatility granted to you by EoM more than makes up for it, not to mention the fact that you generally get to cast more spells at a base in EoM. What you end up getting is that for your domains you're a full caster. For everything else, you're a 3/4 caster. I will be doing oracles that way, as well. For anyone who channels energy, Brother Louis, do you mind educating them on how that's going to work. Thanks . You'll be limited on cantrips as per EoM, but if you're playing two full casting classes, I believe that grants you twice as many. It should be noted that cantrips only cost 1 mp anyway after your free limitation.

[dbaque]

Fendrith, I'll get right on that. Though I'd like to get something clarified: The only thing that a casting stat affects in EoM is boosting the # of signature spells and the spell DC, right? Ok, then in gestalt, do you add the casting stat bonuses of the two different stats (e.g. Wis and Cha for a paladin||cleric) for both the # of signature spells and the spell DC? If so, I may want to jump off the oracle bandwagon and go paladin||cleric.

For everyone else, Channeling:
Cleric's, paladin's, and Life oracle's energy channeling (& auto cure/inflict spells) is replaced by this: The caster has to take Evoke Life and Heal Life (for positive) or Evoke Death and Heal Death (for negative). These lists count against your max spell lists. However, the benefit as that both of these lists get the Improved Signature Spell boon (described in the Mage class in the EoM link); in short, spells from these lists (only these lists) are automatically signature spells (not needing to be prepared or counted against your max number of signature spells). Afterward, if you ever take Charm Undead or Compel Undead (positive or negative, respectively), that list also gains the ISS boon.

The other benefit is that you get to cast a number signature spells from this list equal to the number of times you can channel (usually, 3+cha times/day), without spending mp. After reaching your limit, you can still cast signature spells from the lists using your mp. Remember a signature spell is one you can cast as a standard action, rather than the 2-round default for making it up on the fly.

For feats like Alignment Channel and Elemental Channel, there is a new prerequisite, namely, the appropriate Evoke or Heal list of that alignment or element. The feat benefit is to give you ISS for the Evoke and Heal lists for that alignment or element.

Any questions?

[Fendrith]

I mean it affects everything it affects normally aside from bonus spells/day. As far as what you're getting from the casting stat, definitely not the spell dc. You can add it for signature spells only as I said earlier. For the DCs, just use whichever casting stat you want - I don't want you to have to deal with separating your mana to use the casting stat appropriately (unless you're arcane and divine).

[dbaque]

If I wanted a spell effect that made enemies target me rather than other allies, am I looking for a Charm (anger) effect or a Compel effect?