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  #2011  
Old Jun 11th, 2021, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by JamesC View Post
Currently plodding my way through God Emperor of Dune by Frank Herbert. I loved the first book, but the next couple I'm finding... a little tedious. Still, I want to get through the ones Frank himself wrote at least. They're practically cult "have to read" if you're into sci Fi, right?
That's what I'm reading too! I'm about halfway through it. I loved Children of Dune, but this one is feeling a little different. I'm enjoying it, but there's a tiresome lot of Emperor reciting mysterious philosophy to people who are too afraid to talk to him. I'm loving our Tleilaxu friend, though.
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  #2012  
Old Jun 11th, 2021, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Phettberg View Post
I'd put it down if you don't enjoy it. The first trilogy is one thing, but god emperor and the following are another. I'd be surprised if you liked heretics and chapterhouse any more than this one. In a way, I think the cult status around dune is mostly centred on the first book anyway, and to a smaller degree on two and three, because they are closely connected.

Don't get me wrong, in some ways I actually like the latter three a bit more than the first trilogy, but everybody is different. Basically, anybody that might think less of you because of not having read any book, regardless of how canonical or cult it might be, is not worth listening to anyway.
The first trilogy I enjoyed a fair bit more, particularly the first book itself, Dune, but my enjoyment has slowly but surely gone further and further down the deeper I'm getting into the series. Frank's just getting a little too much into the whole... mysticism and philosophy and so on and so forth. And I can't say I'm big on the whole "men and women are absolutely different and can't and shouldn't do the same job or work" that's so prevalent throughout the series. As well as the bigotry (Duncan's visceral reaction to homosexuality stands out the most since it just happened in God Emperor of Dune).

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Originally Posted by Lashiec View Post
That's what I'm reading too! I'm about halfway through it. I loved Children of Dune, but this one is feeling a little different. I'm enjoying it, but there's a tiresome lot of Emperor reciting mysterious philosophy to people who are too afraid to talk to him. I'm loving our Tleilaxu friend, though.
Frank was really big on mysticism and waxing poetic about philosophy, and that's obvious. It's getting to be a bit much for me, so I'm probably going to drop the Dune series with this one. I finished it today (audiobooks at work makes gobbling books easy) and it was almost a relief to be done with it.
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  #2013  
Old Jun 11th, 2021, 10:48 AM
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I read the first one and Dune Messiah… but haven’t read beyond that. I’ve been told that it just gets progressively less enjoyable. I did want to read long enough to see the Tleilaxu, but it seems like it may not be worth it… and there are just too many other things to read!
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  #2014  
Old Jun 11th, 2021, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Unko Talok View Post
I read the first one and Dune Messiah… but haven’t read beyond that. I’ve been told that it just gets progressively less enjoyable. I did want to read long enough to see the Tleilaxu, but it seems like it may not be worth it… and there are just too many other things to read!
I thought Children of Dune was great. The roller coaster starts at its highest point with Dune, drops down for Messiah, comes back up for Children of Dune, and, from what I've heard, turns into a Ferris wheel from there on out.
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  #2015  
Old Jun 11th, 2021, 11:57 AM
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I might take a swing at Children, then— I like the concept that Messiah ended with, so it seems like it might be worth it. Just depends on when I find the time for it! Will probably still be a year at the current rate haha.

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Originally Posted by JamesC
The first trilogy I enjoyed a fair bit more, particularly the first book itself, Dune, but my enjoyment has slowly but surely gone further and further down the deeper I'm getting into the series. Frank's just getting a little too much into the whole... mysticism and philosophy and so on and so forth. And I can't say I'm big on the whole "men and women are absolutely different and can't and shouldn't do the same job or work" that's so prevalent throughout the series. As well as the bigotry (Duncan's visceral reaction to homosexuality stands out the most since it just happened in God Emperor of Dune).
(Emphasis mine) this pretty much seals the deal that I won’t be reading further than children, though…
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  #2016  
Old Jun 11th, 2021, 12:32 PM
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That's an interesting reading of the books actually. I always found that while it is not actually progressive in a contemporary way it features many matriarchical power structures, though it definitely has "good" and "bad" ones, and neither are entirely unproblematic. Actually, the Tleilaxu may well be read as a critique on malicious and conservative patriarchy in turn, one that goes so far as to control the bodies of its subjects (which should ring a few bells, but let's not get into politics).

This is likely just me giving Herbert the benefit of the doubt, but bad things happening or being present is not always an endorsement, but sometimes quite the opposite. But it's been a while since I read the books last, so I can't say for certain if the things mentioned are supposed to make one uncomfortable or are just old literature embracing terrible ideology. One could say that this method of critique is not liked by everybody either way, so dismissing it is valid. Sometimes tossing a book can be so liberating, I know that.

In any case, to me, mysticism has always been a key theme in the books. The first trilogy is "messianic", and in the heavy jesus parallels I found it more overbearing in that respect actually, while the second is almost apocalyptic. Fitting that it goes super wild actually, bit like the book of revelations.

It's one reason I liked the books, in fact. While I like hard sci-fi as much as the next guy I have sometimes found that the softer side resonates greatly with me too, where the focus is more on society and philosophy rather than the actual technology. I like fantasy, so throwing a bit of fantasy in my sci-fi is often a delight.

Last edited by Phettberg; Jun 11th, 2021 at 12:35 PM.
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  #2017  
Old Jun 11th, 2021, 04:29 PM
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Just read through Will Wight's Traveler's Gate trilogy. Excellent action in all three and a unique take on magic with the various territories.

I followed those up with Daniel Keyes' Flowers for Algernon in preparation for the RPGX July Book club selection. What a wonderful book! I look forward to discussing it in July.
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