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  #2416  
Old Apr 23rd, 2020, 01:48 PM
Ziether Ziether is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex1983 View Post
It certainly makes read magic and spellcraft much more valuable then.
Absolutely. There's a reason Read Magic is on every class' spell list. It would be cruel to not have it available. Preparing it one day to read all your scrolls is useful, because they're ready for use after that. Spellcraft is also good once it gets to higher modifiers.
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What Ziether said.
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  #2417  
Old Jun 8th, 2021, 09:02 PM
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wow.. a year + without a 3.5/PF question.

So, I'll ask one.

3.5 system.

Can a shadow fight and kill another shadow?

It would seem no... the touch of a shadow deals strength damage to a living foe. Another shadow isn't living, so... no damage. Neither one can hurt the other.

Also, shadows are immune to ability damage, so... a shadow spawn could never turn on the shadow that created it, right? Or if it turned, it would be verbal only?
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  #2418  
Old Jun 9th, 2021, 04:39 PM
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Obviously, you can see it IRL.
When you walk and your shadow crosses someone else's shadow, there is no physical damage to either one.

-me
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  #2419  
Old Jun 9th, 2021, 06:14 PM
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Yes, but when my shadow crosses someone else, they don't lose strength. And no matter how long I've stood and kept someone in my shadow, they've never died, and become my spawn.



3.5 shadows are weird...

Going to 0 strength for any other reason is not death. But if a Shadow causes it, you die.

But, not all creatures a shadow kills by going to 0 strength become shadows. Only Humanoids.
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  #2420  
Old Jun 9th, 2021, 07:58 PM
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Obviously shadows turned off friendly fire.
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  #2421  
Old Jun 9th, 2021, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAquilina View Post
Obviously shadows turned off friendly fire.
And they use wall hacks
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  #2422  
Old Jun 10th, 2021, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAquilina View Post
Obviously shadows turned off friendly fire.
I don't think it can manipulate the toggle/mouse/switch...

srdthey cannot take any physical action that would move or manipulate an opponent or its equipment, nor are they subject to such actions.
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  #2423  
Old Jun 10th, 2021, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Admin Dirk View Post
Yes, but when my shadow crosses someone else, they don't lose strength. And no matter how long I've stood and kept someone in my shadow, they've never died, and become my spawn.
You didn't train them well enough or name them.

-me
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  #2424  
Old Jun 10th, 2021, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jj_wolven View Post
You didn't train them well enough or name them.

-me
I didn't have the strength enough to do so.... wait.... it all makes sense now.
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  #2425  
Old Jun 17th, 2021, 09:40 AM
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In PF1e, is there a hard and fast rule for when archetype replacement abilties come online? In a lot of cases, the ability will read, '"At level X you get Y.... This replaces Z," (such as the Empiricist's ceaseless observation) but in some cases (like the speech ability from Elemental Familiar) it's not so clear.

Edit: I realized this leads to another and possibly more universally applicable question. Unless otherwise stated, are all class features/abilities/etc. considered gained at level one? It seems to me that the "general" rule here is that X class (race/monster/creature/etc) has Y feature and the "specific" rule would be "gains at Z (Ievel/HD/whatever)".
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  #2426  
Old Jun 17th, 2021, 06:03 PM
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I believe there is NOT a hard/fast rule. Pretty sure there are discussion about it on some of my other "rules" boards.

I can't think of examples right now, but I know there are some builds that generate an argument about "You can't do that" and "Nothing says I can't" and Rules as Written versus Rules as intended... and it's all about those generic archetype ability swaps.
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  #2427  
Old Jun 17th, 2021, 06:20 PM
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Curse you, archetypes! I'm mostly trying to figure out if the Speaks a Language feature of the Elemental Familiar archetype kicks in at level 1. It seems too good to have any familiar capable of speaking a language from the jump for the measly price of Improved Evasion.
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  #2428  
Old Jun 17th, 2021, 09:01 PM
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By Speaks a language feature do you mean elemental speech?


elemental speech
An elemental familiar gains the ability to speak and understand a language based on its element: Aquan (water), Auran (air), Ignan (fire), or Terran (earth).

This ability replaces speak with animals of its kind.


If so, then this would kick in when the normal familiar would get "speak with animals of its kind", so around level 7.

When an archetype replaces a specific ability, it does so at that level when the ability would have been gained.
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  #2429  
Old Jun 18th, 2021, 08:59 AM
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Danke!
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  #2430  
Old Jun 18th, 2021, 09:45 AM
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It should be noted that there are exceptions to this. If the ability itself states that it comes online at a particular level, then that levels is used regardless of the level that the ability it replaces comes online.

For example, the Holy Tactician archetype for paladins have an ability called tactical acumen that activates at 3rd level despite replacing divine bond (a 4th-level feature). A bit of a weak example, since it also replaces divine health (3rd-level), but it's important to read the text regardless.
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