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  #61  
Old 12-02-2016, 01:30 AM
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OwenQuillion OwenQuillion is offline
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I'm sorry that this election turned into such a god-awful **** show. I can't begin to imagine what it's like to be in your situation, given you belong to one of the groups that much of the rhetoric centered around. But I can say that I, and many like me, don't give a damn about your ethnicity, your skin color, or your religion, so long as your credo is compatible with that of America - that you stand for equal opportunity, freedom of speech, and that you treat your neighbors with respect. Unfortunately, the level of political discourse in, well, more or less the world has sunken so low that what happened for the past five hundred days or so happened.

I apologize going on at length unsolicited. I was more or less a neutral party in all this - I didn't consider either candidate electable, and had more or less resigned myself to at least four years of the Clinton machine. To put it as neutrally as possible, this time both sides decided to put every last ounce of their efforts into demonizing the other side, and the Democratic side performed a mindbogglingly effective all-out smear campaign. Trump is no saint - he might not even be a good president - but he, and the people who supported him, do not represent some massive racially charged nationalist voting bloc. From where I stand - wherever that is - the other side is filled with many well-intentioned people who have been told half-truths and falsehoods so many times that they have internalized them.

I can say that, in large part, this is a backlash to a culture where the slightest deviation from an acceptable stance will get you yelled at and labeled an unconscionable inhuman monster (or at least ostracized). I would describe my position as 'Never Clinton' rather than pro-Trump, but when I expressed that I was ridiculed by my long-time friends, both the apolitical ones and the hard-line conservatives. We've let things become black and white when, really, it's a pretty awful morass of gray. Worse, we've let the name calling and demonization get in the way of actual discourse about tough problems.

Basically, if there's anything to take away from this; we had a particularly nasty and divisive campaign. I've been through three of them and they were all like this, just not to such an extent. Washington, if it changes at all, will still be glacially slow.

And if anybody starts getting rounded up into camps or whatever - homosexual, Muslim, transgender, Mormon, scientologist, any American whatsoever - I will be one of the first up in arms over it. I'm truly, deeply saddened that anybody thinks that such would happen as well. I will also remain wary of any lesser attempts to stifle these same groups. All I want is to be able to freely work through these difficult issues and be heard without it being assumed that I just hate brown people.
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Old 12-06-2016, 04:26 AM
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VPA_Shadow00 VPA_Shadow00 is offline
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On the topic of ostracization; I have been told I will go to hell for my atheism, been called a terrorist, and Osama. So I understand that being labeled is infuriating.

My positions, I think, are reasonable. The U.S. should kill and imprison fewer people and cease supporting those that do. US presidents have propped up friendly dictatorships and monarchies across the middle east, in Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and offered too much clout to oil, gas, and weapons industries. I want money out of politics, and the government to support and protect the people not companies that offer no loyalty to the United States. We should invest infrastructure, and carbon free energy,public and higher education not sell them to lowest bidders and seek to profit from them. We should not allow student debt to grow to exceed credit card or mortage debt the government should be able to negotiate the cost of tuition and medication, not just cut a blank check to predatory for-profit pharmaceutical companies and universities. Walk Street bankers who engage in fraud anderase millioms of dollars of wealth from family's homes and retirements should be prosecuted. Home and auto loans should not be recklessly traded between investment banks. Being a public servant should mean something, politicians aught to conduct themselves with the same humility of Poor Francis, who has sat with the homeless and washed their feet, and a prostitute and called her Senorita. If Christians were more like Jesus the world would be a better place. When some Evangelicals denounced Trump, I felt hopeful that we could find more common ground.

Hillary was not my first choice. She would have, just like Obama has, compromised on all of these positions. Under Barack Obama the drone bombing program has ballooned to an incredible size. An, admittedly horrible, American was killed by drone strike. Deportations have increased dramatically. The DOJ did not persecute anyone involved in the 2008 Mortage and Security crisis. I voted for Sander's, and felt robbed when Demecratic Party insiders threw their support behind Hillary.

Trump however never made any meaningful policy commitment throughout the election season. His platform stood upon a weak economic policy of bringing back steel an manufacturing industries, building a wall, establshimg a registry of Muslims, and wit the addition of Mike Pence the punishment of women for abortion. Mwanwhile, he advocated for war croimes, including waterboarding and in his own words much eorse, and the killing of the families of people deemed 'terrorists'.

Further, he remains secretive about his wealth and taxes, owns a sprawling mess of businesses that could jeapordise his office's integrity. With funds from his charity he settled a lawsuit with a city, and purchased a portait of himself for one of his hotels, has managed many businesses into bankruptcy, cheated his contractors, and defrauded students of his 'University'. Now, he is filling his cabinet with our of touch millionaires and the very politicians and wall street he promised to rally against.

His rheotoric is not new however. He is a direct successor to the amgry, hateful, rhetoric of Bill O'Reiley, Glen Beck, Rush Limbaugh, and even liberal atheists (like me) Bill Maher. The US and EUROPE are all dealing with the same issues. A declining middle class, immigration, changing cultures, and a terrorism at the hands of violent extremists. But people like Trump, Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, Marie le Pen, and nationalists in italy, Germany, and Austria are not the answer. Because Muslims are probably the worst victims of that extremism, and the best ally against it.

I do not think you hate brown people. But, Trump does believe they are less valuable than whites, he says as much plainly when he says about Mexicans that they are "rapists and criminals" while some, he "assumes (as if he has no evidence) are good people." I do believe he is reckless in his care for Muslim lives, when he says the families of terrorists should be killed. And, I believe he distrusts all Muslims when he proposes banning them from the country, and his highest level supporters cite Japanese Internment Camps as precedent.

With all of that, I cannot see what you see in him to be pro-Trump.

Last edited by VPA_Shadow00; 12-06-2016 at 04:30 AM.
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