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Old Jul 27th, 2023, 07:02 PM
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[D&D 5E] Roguish Archetype - Thug

I do have to change the description as I stole it from the Thug archetype in Pathfinder, but this is one of my pet projects I have been working on. Strength rogues can be a lot of fun to play if done right (some of my favorite rogues have been half-orcs), and 5E has always been hard to pull it off well. Here is my attempt to rectify that.

Open to any comments, criticisms, suggestions, etc.

Roguish Archetype - The Thug
ROGUISH ARCHETYPE - Thug

Some criminals steal with finesse, their victims only discovering the crime when the rogue is long gone and the coin already spent. A thug, on the other hand, cares nothing for finesse. Through both threat and violence, the thug gets what she wants by the promise of force, and has no problem making good on that promise as needed.

Bonus Proficiencies
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you gain proficiency with medium armor and one simple or martial melee weapon of choice. This melee weapon cannot have the Heavy weapon property. You may use this martial melee weapon to Sneak Attack without needing the Finesse property. At 9th level, you gain proficiency with one additional melee weapon of your choice with these same restrictions.

Menacing
Starting at 3rd level, you can use the bonus action granted by your Cunning Action to make an Intimidation check on your opponent after striking them with a melee weapon attack. Make a Charisma (Intimidation) check contested by the target's Wisdom (Insight) check. If your check succeeds, the target is frightened until the end of your next turn. If your check fails, the target can't be frightened by you in this way for 1 hour.

Extra Attack
Starting at 9th level, you may attack twice when you take the Attack action.

Gang Up
At 13th level, whenever an enemy within 5 feet of you is attacked by an ally, you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against that creature after your ally's attack is resolved.

Sucker Punch
By 17th level, you have learned to take advantage of every opportunity to administer pain to your target. When you use your action to grapple or shove a creature, you can make a melee weapon attack against that creature as a bonus action.
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Last edited by Grouchy; Jul 27th, 2023 at 09:12 PM.
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Old Jul 28th, 2023, 05:24 PM
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I would honestly swap the level for Menacing and Sucker Punch. I think Menacing is a lot better than Sucker Punch, and at level 17 a buff for Shove or Grapple feels a lot less impactful than on level 3.

@edit:
On second thought, Gang Up would probably be best on the level 17, considering that it will profit from Sneak Attack.

Honestly, considering that most rogue subclasses get utility from their features rather than more damage per round, all of this looks a bit imbalanced. Since you're going for a Thug theme and there are other subclasses that give out advantages in some way, rather than giving more and more attacks, you could make one of the features of your subclass Pack Tactics, but even that would be the strongest feature of its kind compared to the other subclasses.

So yeah, more generally I would suggest comparing this proposal with the other subclasses once more. I suppose since this is homebrew you might not be looking to make it balanced, but I think your design for this subclass isn't quite matching what sort of benefits the official options for a rogue subclass give. I think in 5e, a lot of the rogue's power comes from the base class rather than the subclass, so staying on that theme is a good idea.
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Last edited by Mindsiege; Jul 28th, 2023 at 06:13 PM.
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Old Jul 28th, 2023, 07:21 PM
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Great points. Definitely going to reassess. I have not had the chance to playtest yet.
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Old Jul 28th, 2023, 07:25 PM
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I still think that Sucker Punch makes for a great level 3. It actually enables a more STR-based fighting style straight out of the gate and only protects the rogues damage output as part of the placement bonus that Shove and Grapple give.
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Old Jul 31st, 2023, 11:07 PM
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Reminds me of the DnD 3.5 Class variants. There's a couple Fighter variants that make them more roguish and vice versa.


Is the goal here to make sticking to Rogue as your only class from level 1 to 20 as good as taking a level of Fighter for your roguish build?
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Old Aug 3rd, 2023, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zevonian View Post
Reminds me of the DnD 3.5 Class variants. There's a couple Fighter variants that make them more roguish and vice versa.

Is the goal here to make sticking to Rogue as your only class from level 1 to 20 as good as taking a level of Fighter for your roguish build?
That was sort of the idea. Most rogues who dip into fighter get at least 2 levels due to Action Surge, often 3 just for the archetype so you miss out on Elusive and Stroke of Luck.

The Pathfinder rogue archetype Thug and the Skulking Slayer were my main inspirations. I have played both before and they are a blast to play. More like the Mafioso enforcer type.
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Last edited by Grouchy; Aug 3rd, 2023 at 09:55 AM.
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Old Mar 4th, 2024, 07:04 PM
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My most recent attempt. Now a WIP again haha.

Roguish Archetype - The Thug
ROGUISH ARCHETYPE - Thug

Some criminals steal with finesse, their victims only discovering the crime when the rogue is long gone and the coin already spent. A thug, on the other hand, cares nothing for finesse. Through both threat and violence, the thug gets what she wants by the promise of force, and has no problem making good on that promise as needed.

Menacing
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you gain proficiency in Intimidation if you don't already have it. You may opt to use your Strength modifier instead of your Charisma modifier when making Intimidation checks.

Close Quarters Brawling
Starting at 3rd level, you have learned to take advantage of every opportunity to administer pain to your target. When you use your action to grapple or shove a creature, you can make a melee weapon attack against that creature as part of your Cunning Action. You can also now use any weapon that does not have the Heavy property as part of your sneak attack. All the other rules for the Sneak Attack class feature still apply to you.

Intimidating Presence
At 9th level, you gain advantage on all Intimidation checks if the target is equal to your size or smaller. Attempts to use Intimidation on you are made with disadvantage if the target is equal to your size or smaller.

Beat Them Down
At 13th level, you have advantage to strike any creature that is Intimidated by you.

.....
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Last edited by Grouchy; Mar 5th, 2024 at 12:41 PM.
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