[Mechanics] Game Mechanics and Serious Business

[Fil kearney]

Originally Posted by Grenadier

The Legend of Captain Ward

The gist of it I like a lot... I think I want to tweak it a bit, if you don't mind?
Technical note about Uncarnation: being able to go incorporeal lifts you into the Border Ethereal... you can maintain this for 10 rounds, as the text states.
With the cosmology we've got in place, it takes 3 rounds for someone to "dive" from Border Ethereal into Deep Ether.. if you choose to do so, then you drop your material items not Uncarnated and you "materialize" in the Deep where you can remain indefinitely to wander the multiverse... if you come upon a "shoreline" of Border Ethereal, you can take the 3 rounds to "come ashore" and then pop uncarnation to transition back into the material world incorporeally wherever that may now be... which is the same process for entering outer and elemental planes... so it is likely you bumped into Oxrapop during your mystic travelings through the Ether.

Lets say this all happened maybe, 200ish years ago.
Oxrapop is a full blown, like, CR16 demon... Serious Trouble. he plays the Long Con, and used Ward to start some civil warring amonst the Lhazaar Princes of the time... basically with Oxr's unseen support, Ward unites a good 12 feelts, and thus consolidates the total "pool" of princes that had began to swell in numbers during a expansion during that era... Once Ward had performed this deed, Oxr prepped an "heir" of his choosing to kill Ward and take his place. From there, Oxr has evolved his influence to control a significant minority of Lhazaar leadership which he could trigger to wage war against any target he chooses.

So at this point you can decide:
1. Ward found his way out of Hell through uncarnation back home to give himself a second chance at redemption. Pursued by hellhounds hunting for him through the Ether, Uncarnation becomes a risky proposition to drop his scent in the Ether... He can choose to stay the hell away from Oxr and seek redemption in another corner of the world, or he can actively attempt to reveal his influence over Lhazaar politics and restore True Freedom to the principalities or take advantage of it to regain his prior seat of power... up to you.
2. You get brought back from the dead to serve perhaps the silver flame to eliminate demonic influence with your uncarnate abilities... occasionally you'll get sent assignments to locate a possessed person and pluck his parasite.

... I actually prefer #1 because it gives you unobligated adventuring, but technically, you could have #2's commitments while pursuing #1 in your spare time, or you can ditch #1 altogether and be On Call to your master.
(hopefully you like this overall adaption.)

Originally Posted by Sir Alex

Is there a limit on how many levels we can use for templates? Otherwise I might worry about game balance, what with a Half-Dragon Lich of Legend being available, etc.

What is our starting gold? 13,000g

Great question... logically, a normal E6 game with it's 6 level limit would allow a maximum of 5 LA to stay in existence as a level 1 character with 5 levels of template which would later be overriden by additional classes gestalting over the templates... so lets do that. 5 levels limit of templates

Originally Posted by Sir Alex

Question: Can we still buy 3.5 items that give a bonus to concentration checks?

Yes. concentration remains an active skill despite it's removal from TB.. this will likely be merged with autohypnosis from Psionics.

Originally Posted by Sir Alex

Oh and if you haven't read up on Combat Defense, you could check that out in the Fundamentals section of the Trailblazer content. My character doesn't seem to need armor, since she gets free invisible full plate.

I'm not automatically using this rule, but if it is needed to balance AC's amongst armored and unarmored characters then I can use this caveat to arbitrarily bump folks AC.... so build without and wait for a balance ruling.

Originally Posted by Sir Alex

Ok, so the skills are the same as Trailblazer except add Concentration per 3.5e. And I noticed you took Weapon Focus (Slashing), and Phil mentioned a few other feats in there so the feats are available too? Plus the base class changes? And spellcasting, and Action Point mechanics?

But we are mostly keeping the 3.5e combat mechanics, then? Are we not doing CMD/CMB, or the -2/-2 attack penalty for two swings at +6 BAB, etc?

It might help to have one post that was a master list for what is not available from your posted content. Just to keep everyone on the same page. From what I've seen mentioned, it sounds like most of the content is carrying over into our game.

I am pretty sure concentration is the only exception to TB i am making.. the -2/-2 for iterative attacks still stands, and action points are still in effect... and I am VERY liberal in how you would want to use them... they are essentially "******** tokens" for you to try again, reroll, add actions... whatever you need to whip out to make what you want stick.
I'll grant 4 ap per character that will refresh at level up.

WORTH NOTING:
in game, everytime I post everyone keeping pace with me earns 1% of needed xp.
I break encounters, challenges, and investigations into 0%, 5%, 10%, and 15% rewards... so if in the first 55 posts y'all endure a 10% challenge of maybe dealing with a stray pack of wyverns picking at your ship, a 5% challenge of dealing with an official at a city port, 15% challenge of being attacked by some rivals and then 10% challenge of tracking the attackers' point of origin to evaluate the overall threat... and then 15% for taking out the trash... you've earned a level even if you only invested in 45 of the possible 55 posts along with me... and I really don't care about the quality or length of posts as long as you are showing up to play. you could get into a back-and-forth argument with another player while I'm away for the weekend, rack up a 20 post lead on me and then just tap along occasionally as I proceed with pushing the story along and you'll be fine.... others will want to respond post by post with what I am updating.
I will not guarantee a post per day, but it will approximate that.
I've got a few hours on the weekend I can perform major updates like mapping and environmental stuff uploading into Roll20, but once it's there we can all view and manipulate our characters on the table... so daily updating of combat and such is possible on our own time.

ALSO:
since it's PbP with global time differentials, there is NO initiative. if you get surprise on someone, you'll have a double round... if they surprise you they get a double round.. otherwise, it's first to swing gets to act. you'll all have at least 24 hours to respond to the current round of combat before I resolve all enemy activity. Your Attacks of Opportunity will be tallied, and you will have additional attacks accumulate for you to use on your turn... so troop movement and other things cannot be prevented, only punished. If you get an AoO for someone crossing through your space, you will get an attack on them "after the fact" when you act again... it is very possible a target can die from someone else before your aoo is resolved... in which case the AoO is wasted.
It is also possible, for example, for a wizard to cast a spell that triggers an AoO that will go off, have it's effects and when your turn comes around-- assuming you are still alive-- you can then resolve your AoO and may well kill the caster after the fact... basically, he kept it together long enough to finish his spell before succumbing to the lethal damage.
Folks may or may not like these alterations, but over the .. many years.. I've DM'd here, I've found it makes combat far more fun in PbP. Simple, but still rewarding.

[Grenadier]

Originally Posted by Fil kearney

The gist of it I like a lot... I think I want to tweak it a bit, if you don't mind?

Not at all. Towards the end especially, I'm just spit-balling. I'm leaning option 1 currently, although I may change my mind once I see more from the other characters.

Although not technically confirmed, I moved my character build & background to the characters thread in order to make room for a list of applicable bits from the rune stone in this thread. I also tried to make note of other rulings Fil has made.

I'm totally for condensing Autohypnosis into Concentration, particularly after you described how you houserule Concentration. 4 AP a level is a good idea; 6 is too many for PBP. I actually do 2, but I have a low number of encounters per level. I also don't use a real initiative in PBP.

[Battlechaser]

Another question about the ship. Could we make it look like a tradeship, but actually be a fast, maneuverable pirate hunter.

Oh yeah, Brunner is a paranoid bugger who'll have his buffs up 24/7, well maybe not walk unseen.

[spikehed]

Fil, attempting to stat up weapon you discussed in recruitment

Exotic Two-Handed Melee Weapon	Cost	Damage (L)	Range Increment	Weight	Type
Ogre Grab'n'Smash*	75gp	3d6 (Ball) / 2d6 (Harpoon)	10ft	86 lbs	Piercing or Bludgeoning

A Grab'n'Smash (GnS) is a double weapon. You can fight with it as if fighting with two weapons, but if you do, you incur all the normal attack penalties associated with fighting with two weapons, just as if you were using a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. A creature wielding a GnS in one hand can’t use it as a double weapon— only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round.

A GnS has reach, so you can strike opponents 10 feet away with it. In addition, unlike most other weapons with reach, it can be used against an adjacent foe.

A wielder who hits a target of its size or one size category smaller than it with the harpoon can immediately attempt to grapple (as a free action) without provoking an attack of opportunity. Any grapple check you make using a GnS includes it's enhancement bonus (if any) and any other bonuses you might have on attack rolls with the weapon (such as from the Weapon Focus feat). If you grapple a target with
a GnS, you are considered grappling, but unless your target can reach you, he can’t attempt to attack you, damage you, or pin you. You can escape the grapple automatically by releasing the target as a standard action.

If it deals damage, the harpoon lodges in an opponent who fails a Reflex saving throw (DC 10 + the damage dealt). A harpooned creature moves at only half speed and cannot charge or run. If you control the trailing chain by succeeding on an opposed Strength check while holding it, the harpooned creature can move only within the limits that the chain allows (the trailing chain is 30 feet long). If the harpooned creature attempts to cast a spell, it must succeed on a DC 15 Concentration check or lose the spell. The harpooned creature can pull the harpoon from its wound if it has two free hands and takes a full-round action to do so, but it deals damage to itself equal to the initial damage the harpoon dealt. A character who succeeds on a DC 15 Heal check avoids this damage.

[Fil kearney]

Tradesman is fine with me. I've found some 3e conversions, but I'm not content yet, so I'm mulling over the detials. Namely; NOT having spelljam helms for locomotion, instead using the eberron mechanics for airships... but again, it's a work in progress.
Worth noting... the tradesman is awful small in nature, assuming the adventuring team would be the crew as well... if you guys don't wanna be scuttlebutts on yer own boat, we'll need to up the size and thus lower the maneuverability.
Just a fair warning, but details to come.

Also... for those still wrestling with their design: I love to see warforged in the mix.

Originally Posted by spikehed

GnS

I think this here is a bit more straight forward/simple...
1.ewp feat for use without penalty as per spiked chain.. but it is a P/B weapon for the harpoon and ball weight
2.a second ewp feat for using the harpoons as a mancatcher... piercing damage on attack, success = damage + combat maneuvers to grapple target. If successful, target is grappled as per normal rules.
---Target may spend a round to str check, disable device or heal dc 15 frees the target with no damage to weapon.. destroying the weapon will work just as well, but requires damage rolls etc.
successful grapple means target will sustain damage each round and be limited in movement within range of weapon
3. combat maneuvers may be spent to reel a grappled target closer to the weapon's user
4. combat maneuvers may be spent to entangle adjacent grappled target to the weapon's user
--weapon's user may drop the weapon at any time to end the grapple.. the target may free himself from the untended weapon as a swift action.

[spikehed]

sounds great to me Fil, will also give him something to build toward. Unfamiliar weapon at the moment, as he levels he get more dangerous with it.

[Grenadier]

This is another question about stacking. I'm considering trying to add a short guide on how to layer to the start of this thread, but I want to be sure of how it works first. My current understand is just to the most advantageous packet.

This is the way my HP layers works.

HP
Level Pyro Duelist Total 1 1d8 1d10 1d10 2 2d8 2d10 2d20 3 3d8 3d10 3d10 4 4d8 4d10 4d10 5 5d8 5d10 5d10 6 6d8 -- 5d10+1d8

My question is if my BAB performs the same way. Earlier, Fil seemed to indicate no, but the following fashion would follow the HP method.

BAB
Level Pyro Duelist Total 1 +0 +1 +1 2 +1 +2 +2 3 +2 +3 +3 4 +3 +4 +4 5 +3 +5 +5 6 +4 -- +6

This is an example of the same progression using BMB. I've taken the most advantageous stack and layered it against a base stat.

BMB
Level Pyro Psion Total 1 +0 +1 +1 2 +1 +2 +2 3 +1 +3 +3 4 +2 +4 +4 5 +2 +5 +5 6 +3 -- +6

The layering style is more advantageous, since you can get a small BAB or BMB out of just a few levels.

A second issue issue is that this level method (layering or not) basically requires 6 levels in one class. Fil, would you like to make that an explicit rule?

[Fil kearney]

Originally Posted by Grenadier

This is another question about stacking.

I understand now why this has been so confusing. Multiclassing doesn't have the same rules in this mod.
Sorry for the confusion this has obviously created.

With Gren's examples, here is how it works with overlapping, not stacking...

BAB
Level Pyro Duelist Total 1 +0 +1 +1 2 +1 +2 +2 3 +2 +3 +3 4 +3 +4 +4 5 +3 +5 +5 6 +4 -- still +5

BMB
Level Pyro Psion Total 1 +0 +1 +1 2 +1 +2 +2 3 +1 +3 +3 4 +2 +4 +4 5 +2 +5 +5 6 +3 -- still +5

Originally Posted by Grenadier

A second issue issue is that this level method (layering or not) basically requires 6 levels in one class. Fil, would you like to make that an explicit rule?

yes... to get top BAB or BMB you have to work through all six levels of that class... if you don'tneed to or don't want to you don't have to, but inevitably everyone will want to have that completed 6 level progression so they can open up capstone feats reliant on it.

Again, sorry for the confusion. and thanks for being so patient in understanding.

[spikehed]

I have an issue regarding capstone feats. Mainly that they are completely non-existent for ALOT of base classes from books outside players handbook.

[Sir Alex]

I only have one more question for my character, really. According to her class levels, her griffon mount should be very advanced in HD, natural armor, etc. Should I just go with what a lvl 6 paladin would have, though, in terms of the mount advancement? This would still make her griffon a 9 HD creature (instead of 15 HD or something).

[Fil kearney]

Originally Posted by spikehed

I have an issue regarding capstone feats. Mainly that they are completely non-existent for ALOT of base classes from books outside players handbook.

Meh. Make something up.

Originally Posted by Sir Alex

I only have one more question for my character, really. According to her class levels, her griffon mount should be very advanced in HD, natural armor, etc. Should I just go with what a lvl 6 paladin would have, though, in terms of the mount advancement? This would still make her griffon a 9 HD creature (instead of 15 HD or something).

That is very considerate. Please do.

[Grenadier]

Cool, so I am still planning over writing a short guide. I just took the day off from mechanics. They way I see it...

There are three or maybe four ways that different mechanics interact. First, we have fixed mechanics--saves, feats, and ability scores. These things occur are a set rate and are unaffected by your class levels. Then, we have layered mechanics--HP and presumably skill points. These mechanics can layer over the top of one another to produce the most beneficial effect. Third, there are independent mechanics--BAB and BMB. This mechanic works by taking the single highest value and using that.

Accumulative might a possible fourth type of mechanic--class features. Individual class features are pooled together to a greater effect. However, the same class features work in an independent fashion, where the highest value overrides less values.

Any feedback before I write up something to that effect?

[Fil kearney]

This all sounds correct so far.

[Grenadier]

Originally Posted by Grenadier

They way I see it...

Correct except for the numerous misused words... I'm tired, so it is best that I'm waiting until tomorrow.

[Admin Dirk]

actually, grenny, I would say the concept is right, but the semantics could be...

Fixed/independent: Ability scores. Values that don't change because of your classes or levels, or change at a set rate no matter your Class choices.
Additive/Cumulative: Hitpoints and Skill points. Each level adds to the total
Interdependent (Layering): BAB, BMB. You place the highest scores per class aside one another, and then you can see/choose the highest (the one that sticks out) for each class.

To me, that's the way I understand it. It's mostly all semantics, what you mean by X may be what I think of as Y, but... i wanted to offer some help.