[OOC] Banter and OOC conversation

[Fil kearney]

races are very open.. but whatever your race is, we will assum ethey are a large enough minority to impact the game world/they have to be accepted without quetion in a random bar to be a viable species.. so either you gow ith something 'passable" or we start looking at exotic societies with very eccentric citizens.

Otherwise Gren is on the same page as I've laid out.

[spikehed]

I've worked him up because, honestly, Zor is broken. He has turned out far more powerful than I thought, a bullrush check of +28 for 2d6+20+8d6+36 if they hit something or someone, 2-hand PA charge with -AC at range with Shock Trooper means another +12. That's 10d6 +70 with a trip check and pushback from bullrush... and he can use the attack to hit 3 squares at the same time.

So here's my sneaky fighter type (if the requested feat is a no-go, I'll rearrange some stuff) :

Dark Whisper Gnome

Str	10
Dex	17
Con	12
Int	16
Wis	10
Cha	8

1	Warblade 1	Change Racial prof Hooked Hammer-Gnome Quickrazor (CW), Reverse Jotunbrud feat
2	Fighter 1 - Hit and Run ACF (DotU)	Dodge
3	Swashbuckler 1	Weapon Finesse, Skill Beyond Your Years (Tumble)
4	Swashbuckler 2
5	Swashbuckler 3
6	Swordsage 1	Kung Fu Genius, Weapon Focus (Quickrazor)
7	Swordsage 2
8	Swordsage 3
9	Swordsage 4
10	Swordsage 5
11	Swordsage 6
12		Adaptive Style
13	Fighter 2	Titan Fighting
14	Factorum 1
15	Factorum 2
16	Factorum 3
17	Warblade 2
18	Warblade 3
19	Rogue 1 - Fighter Feat ACF (UA), Poison Use ACF (DotU)	Underfoot Combat
20		Shadow Blade
21	LA

[Sir Alex]

Lol...

I dunno. I like to make characters who are good at a few different things rather than ridiculously good at a single thing. My own preference.

[spikehed]

I agree... this new character can stealth like a pro, handle traps for team, has a ton of maneuvers, can poison... and isn't doing 100+ damage a round.

[Eviltedzies]

Doesn't Skill Beyond Your Years require you to be 6th level? I tried to take it on my current build, but ended up swapping it for Steady Concentration instead.

[Fil kearney]

Originally Posted by Eviltedzies

Doesn't Skill Beyond Your Years require you to be 6th level? I tried to take it on my current build, but ended up swapping it for Steady Concentration instead.

yes it does. he could swap it with adaptive style and still be good to go.
I'd have toned down zor once everyone weighed in with their builds if you liked the characer. but yes 100/round is heavy, and the skill rank penalty on the war hulk is nearly ridiculous.. but I was looking forward to zor doing group stealth, gut reactin bluff checks, even basic survival checks.
The whisper gnome is definitely a better decision overall though.

[Admin Dirk]

after seeing peeks at what folks are doing, I don't feel so bad about going Deep Imarski for a race, to get of of the few + intelligent races out there.

I can say, Rhoma is NOT optimized. I'll do my best to make her hold her own (like getting a +2 to her stat), but she's all flavor, with some great abilities. She's a fear causer, a couple trick pony, I think. Perfectly fine with me to hide behind everyone, and let you do all the hard/dangerous work.

Oh, and it should be interesting to have such a high charisma female in the group. Rhoma is headed the other direction, as low as Fil allows. She's not pleasant to look at, or even be around, she can be pretty blunt with her words, actions and deeds.

[Battlechaser]

Originally Posted by Grenadier

Battlechaser, you've currently got a +1 STR & +1 WIS listed as your 4th level ability increase. That is probably from my houserules. I start with low abilities and grant +1 physical & +1 mental with each increase.

I think Fil just wants us to take a single +1 at fourth level.

I corrected it on my sheet. Thanks.

[Fil kearney]

Can I have everyone edit their builds onto the character thread So I can start doing a comparative analysis to see where any unbalance exists?

I may need to alter the end-statistics of individual characters to fall within scope of each other to assure no one character is driving the strength of the antagonists I put into the game.. so I appreciate everyone's willingness to stay flexible.
The end result I am seeking is relatively even strength across the team so everyone feels equally at risk when I put encounters together.

Also, more conversation about your characters, how they connect to the team, and how loyalty is built into each member.

Once I get a confirmatin on what everyone is playing I can start looking at points of insertion into the game world.
also, if folks want to post in the character post or PM me their User ID for Roll20 so we can do a test run for player access.. that would be excellent.

... and it seems folks are content with a tradesman ship for now. You can always steal/whatever a new one if you wish.. i'm still ironing out the details of converting 2e SJ into 3.5 mechanics, but I'm confident everything will work out. I'm not looking for a ship combat simulator game, but I don't mind scaling out to ship combat from time to time if we find it enjoyable.

[Grenadier]

My build has not changed since it was posted in the mechanics thread. It really hasn't come into its own quite yet, and I passed up any level adjustments or stat increases so it should not be on the crazy end of the power scale.

Right now, the fire lash won't perform too well (1d8+2d6+4 with Weapon Afire). In two levels, I can add Crack of Fate, which will bring it up some (2 attacks). If we make it to five more levels, then it actually works (3 attacks). I'm hoping the fact that it is a ranged touch attack means they will be nice and accurate despite a -4 penalty. Right now though, 6d6 bolt of fire is my best offensive option.

I used Overchannel/Talented to push my manifester level to 7, which allows me to swift manifest some powers. In particular, I'll use defensive precognition to add defense now, but once the fire lash becomes a better option offensive prescience can help me add six more damage a turn (2 per attack). Add in Lashing Attack for an extra +2 damage, and that's three attacks at 1d8+2d6+8 (21 average damage on touch) plus potential for sneak attack.

I'm not settled on a power selection besides knowing I'll take a couple personal buffs. I'll probably add in an area effect, since it looks like that might be missing from our repertoire.

I might need some ruling on what applies an incorporeal miss chance and what does not...

Originally Posted by Rules Compendium

An incorporeal creature's attacks ignore natural armor, armor, and shields, although deflection bonuses and force effect (plus dodge) work normally against such attacks. An incorporeal touch attack is not the same as a melee touch attack...

Non-magical attacks made by an incorporeal creature with a melee weapon have no effect on corporeal targets, and any attack an incorporeal creature makes with a magic weapon against a corporeal target has a 50% miss chance.

If an incorporeal creature throws or shoots a ranged weapon, the projectile becomes corporeal as soon as it's thrown or fired, and thus can affect a corporeal target normally (no miss chance).

All those rewrites to the incorporeal rules, and a couple things still aren't exactly clear. I'm assuming my incorporeal touch will not have a miss chance, since they are discussed separately from melee attack with weapon. Will my fire damage (Hand Afire, Nimbus) on an incorporeal touch have a miss chance?

Although it functions similar to a whip, fire lash is labeled a ranged touch attack. Since it is a ranged attack, I believe it should not have the miss chance. The same is true for Bolt of Fire, so it shouldn't have a miss chance either. All this does it keep me from needing Concussion Blast.

The one thing I am less sure about is the Nimbus fiery defense. I think it would be easiest to assume that if a melee attack succeeds against my incorporeal defense, then the fiery defense succeeds as well (no check required)

[Fil kearney]

Originally Posted by Grenadier

...
I might need some ruling on what applies an incorporeal miss chance and what does not...

Unless it is a force effect, it has a 50% miss chance.
Here's a fantastic link to all sorts of "what does psionics affect" answers.
The efficient solution is: Take the feat, "Transdimensional Power" so anything you manifest can affect incorporeal without a miss chance.

[Grenadier]

Maybe it wasn't clear. I'm not talking about a miss chance on incorporeal targets, but a miss chance on my attacks when I'm incorporeal. According to the text, if I make a magic melee attack against a corporeal target then I have a 50% miss chance, but if I make magic ranged attack then it does not. Most of my psi-like abilities are ranged touch attacks.

Transdimensional Power would be okay for my powers, but it won't apply to my psi-like abilities unless houseruled. I'm not worried about my powers though, since I know even when I'm incorporeal most of them will work just fine (against corporeal targets).

A more direct solution for psi-like abilities (if needed) would probably be Ghost Attack, but the text seems to say that I don't need it for my purposes.

[Sir Alex]

FYI, my wife's probably having our baby tonight.

[Fil kearney]

Originally Posted by Grenadier

Maybe it wasn't clear. I'm not talking about a miss chance on incorporeal targets, but a miss chance on my attacks when I'm incorporeal. According to the text, if I make a magic melee attack against a corporeal target then I have a 50% miss chance, but if I make magic ranged attack then it does not. Most of my psi-like abilities are ranged touch attacks.

Incorporeal creatures have the same limitations attacking the material world as the material people do attacking the incorporeal... so to avoid the miss chance you need force or pos/neg energy effects or ghost touch etc.
.. it isn't clear... can you point out where it says anything about ranged touch attacks?

Originally Posted by Grenadier

Transdimensional Power would be okay for my powers, but it won't apply to my psi-like abilities unless houseruled.

well, each use blows psi focus, so I'd houserule it to be okay until proven broken.

Originally Posted by Grenadier

I'm not worried about my powers though, since I know even when I'm incorporeal most of them will work just fine (against corporeal targets).

A more direct solution for psi-like abilities (if needed) would probably be Ghost Attack, but the text seems to say that I don't need it for my purposes.

I just don't find anything confirming that anywhere.... ?

[Admin Dirk]

Sir Alex.. .Congratulations!

everyone else... Rhoma is coming along, working on her character sheet tonight, filling in blanks, feats, skills, etc.. this is the most difficult "6th level" character I have ever done. Sheesh.

still have a lot of work to get details on feats, get a grip on some of the new ones (monk class... new stuff to learn there), pick spells for two arcane classes with different spell lists, etc..

FYI, Fil

Shadowdancer gives Evasion as a class ability. Typically, game rules have "if you have evasion already, you gain improved evasion", but shadowdancer does NOT say that. So, is that a mistake, and it should, or is that intentional, and you don't get anything more than evasion, even if you already have it. I'm cool either way, just wondering.. my first time ever playing one, been hoping forever for a chance.