[OOC] General Discussion

[TheMagicalMick]

I think it was more he thought some things cost too much/too little. Way I read it was the things he specifically listed are the price they are, and everything that isn't listed is the price of the BP x 2500.

There's some positive things for us in there too.. like a Waterfront is 90 BP, or 225,000gp normally. He has it listed at 90,000gp though.

- - - - -
Also used ability increases at 4 and 8. Just built my character like I would any other, just with lots more money, hah.

[TheMagicalMick]

Is anyone else using that first time building discount thing from the building trees, or are we just going flat BP x 2500? Pretty much the last thing I need to know before I start building.

[sjsilver]

I haven't been using any discounts (don't know where to find these, perhaps Pendragon can give us a ruling on using them), haven't really got my hard plan down for much of anything, really working on figuring out numbers for housing my population first before building a city.

[sjsilver]

Originally Posted by InsaneFox

Yeah I'm probably going to have to downsize my fleet before all's said and done. At least by half. Once we all have a better idea what we're working with.

I'm trying to figure out if we can use ships for housing, sailors more or less live on them.

Originally Posted by TheMagicalMick

Yeah, thing that I always forget when figuring a ship price? You need to also figure in the salary of it's crew, the price of feeding them, and the sneakiest cost of that I always almost forget is the cost of it's weapon's ammo. Like a light ballista bolt is 10gp and 10lb a piece and a sailing ship has 20; 10 per side... say you fire 5 barrages with your port side? Pow, 500 gold in 15 turns, or 1.5 minutes of combat. Adds up way too quick. Lol

Not all sailing ships have to have ballistas, weapons are optional, a merchant sailing ship is not likely to have any. Also, unless the ship and crew are specifically your characters I don't believe we should be responsible for paying salaries and feeding people (which i believe is part of the salary), its not like they're part of our military, and if they are then you should be able to dip into the 4 million we have to pay for our district.

It should also be noted that at 1% of the population being readability available armed guards we're talking about ~400 soldiers for our whole district. Plus additional mercenaries and conscripts you might have.

Originally Posted by TheMagicalMick

There's some positive things for us in there too.. like a Waterfront is 90 BP, or 225,000gp normally. He has it listed at 90,000gp though.
- - - - -
Also used ability increases at 4 and 8. Just built my character like I would any other, just with lots more money, hah.

Would like to get some feedback on this, would make some more sense otherwise I'm going to go with the lower listed cost most of the time.

[TheMagicalMick]

Pen actually said something like a 20:1 ratio of commoners to armed folk. That ratio would include your guards, militia, and standing military force since you wouldn't send your city guards and such into combat.

Also, good luck with unarmed ships, but not gonna happen for this guy. When I was talking about ships, I was talking as part of my military force, not talking about like visiting merchants and such.

I figured if I just build some taverns for them to drink at, and some inns for them to get some at, I can just say they live on their ships. That was my plan, at least.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Pendragon

Population wise I would say we are looking at right around +/- 300k for the whole island minus the kings land. Over all the minimum ratio of normal adults to armed men should be 20 to 1. Over all minimum forces should be around 15k for the island, divided among the districts. The kings land has 5k standing men and 15k population in the capital and outlying lands. The kings land/military does not count into my numbers above.

I guess we have to remember that we're not just guarding or land, or having our own military, but we need a good enough military to muster the Kingdom's army if the King decides to go to war or something.

[TheMagicalMick]

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/u...g-descriptions

There's certain buildings that have "Discount: *building name*" which means when you build it, the building it lists as a discount is 1/2 price the first and only first time you build it.

I can totally rock not using that discount, but just curious one way or the other.

[Yuul]

So an average of 40k people to house?

Hope I don't sound wimpy saying the following. Could I apply for a flat reduction to my 1.5mil on the condition that housing is accounted for already? The housing is making my head spin.

Also, less important question. What is the brown marking on the map?

[sanitas infirma]

Actually, Pendragon said we don't have to stick to 1.5 million too strictly:

Originally Posted by Pendragon

If you want to go into that much detail you can use 3mil for housing and 1mil for other buildings. I just wanted to make sure you didn't over do it so I gave you a budget, I didn't realize housing would be so costly.

FYI you have roughly 40714 people to house in each of your districts. Which would be 2036 mansions or 8143 houses.

He also made a correction that it would be 2036 grand houses, not mansions, which would be subdivided into apartments for families.

[sjsilver]

Originally Posted by Yuul

Also, less important question. What is the brown marking on the map?

I believe that is a mountain range.

[Yuul]

Ok, so according to Pen's edits, 4mil to spend on housing, and 1mil for other stuff, plus our personal budget.

I'll do the math in a few hours.

Also, do we take into account that this housing is not all clumped in one city?

I plan to have Fairford be a small/medium city with the rest of the population being scattered throughout the district, like proper farmers and shepherds would.

@Pen: Do I edit in a brief brown line when I had my city marker to account for the Dragon's Teeth?

[TheMagicalMick]

Yeah, imagine that'd be spread out among all your settlements. I basically plan on having one giant city that encompasses the three islands where like 90% of my spent money and population will be. Then a couple small villages on my "mainland" section for farming.

Holding off on it until Pen comes back around. Doing my military/guards/etc right now because I can do that fairly easily.

[Yuul]

I'm going to have some chocolate cake and check back in a few hours.

[sjsilver]

Originally Posted by Yuul

Ok, so according to Pen's edits, 4mil to spend on housing, and 1mil for other stuff, plus our personal budget.

I'll do the math in a few hours.

Also, do we take into account that this housing is not all clumped in one city?

I plan to have Fairford be a small/medium city with the rest of the population being scattered throughout the district, like proper farmers and shepherds would.

@Pen: Do I edit in a brief brown line when I had my city marker to account for the Dragon's Teeth?

I thought it was just 4 million plus our 250,000 personal but perhaps I missed something (please let me know if I am).

I would just have major cities and towns listed with what they have in them armory, library, as well a housing. Note the populations of each major location. Then just have something at the end listing the number and type of residences which are scattered about as well as the total population housed in them. Example, I plan on having some random fishing villages:

Fishing Village (10) - Cyraepta is home to many fishing villages accross the coastline of Caesar Bay.

5 Houses
1 Grand Estate
Total population per village 45 total cost per village 3,500

Cost: 35,000 Population: 450

This accounts for the "average fishing village" in Cyraepta some might only have 3 house some more then 5 but it gives Pendragon a good idea of what your territory is like. Then after everything is listed out just give a total cost of the district and total population in bold at the end.

[InsaneFox]

Going to make a table of all of the items in the Pathfinder Kingdom building rules and their BP cost X 2500gp, so it's easier to reference what-costs-what.

Ignoring housing, 1.5 million is exactly 600 build points. Which might help simplify things.

The items with an asterisk (*) are from Pendragon's pricing list, with backwards-converted BP cost.
The items struck out are items from Pathfinder's Ultimate Campaign that are replaced or obsoleted by Pendragon's price list.

 

Structure	BP	Gold Cost
Academy	52	130,000
Alchemist	18	45,000
Arena	40	100,000
Bank	28	70,000
Bank*	28	70,000
Bardic College	40	100,000
Barracks	6	15,000
Black Market	50	125,000
Brewery	6	15,000
Bridge	6	15,000
Bureau	10	25,000
Caster's Tower	30	75,000
Castle	54	135,000
Castle*	100	250,000
Cathedral	58	145,000
Cathedral*	40	100,000
Cistern	6	15,000
City Wall	2	5,000
Dance Hall	4	10,000
Dump	4	10,000
Everflowing Spring	5	12,500
Exotic Artisan	10	25,000
Foreign Quarter	30	75,000
Fort*	34	85,000
Foundry	16	40,000
Foundry*	16	40,000
Garrison	28	70,000
Garrison*	28	70,000
Granary	12	30,000
Grandhouse*	.4	1000
Graveyard	4	10,000
Guildhall	34	85,000
Guildhall*	10	25,000
Herbalist	10	25,000
Hospital	30	75,000
House(s)	3	7,500
House*	0.2	500
Huge Castle*	300	750,000
Inn	10	25,000
Jail	14	35,000
Keep*	30	75,000
Library	6	15,000
Luxury Store	28	70,000
Magic Shop	68	170,000
Magical Academy	58	145,000
Magical Streetlamps	5	12,500
Mansion	10	25,000
Mansion*	2	5,000
Market	48	120,000
Market*	48	120,000
Menagerie	16	40,000
Military Academy	36	90,000
Mill	6	15,000
Mint	30	75,000
Moat	2	5,000
Moat w/ Bridge*	10	25,000
Monastery	16	40,000
Monument	6	15,000
Museum	30	75,000
Noble Villa	24	60,000
Observatory	12	30,000
Orphanage	6	15,000
Palace	108	270,000
Park	4	10,000
Paved Streets	24	60,000
Pier	16	40,000
Pier*	20	50,000
Sewer System	24	60,000
Shop	8	20,000
Shrine	8	20,000
Smithy	6	15,000
Stable	10	25,000
Stockyard	20	50,000
Tannery	6	15,000
Tavern	12	30,000
Temple	32	80,000
Temple*	26	65,000
Tenement	1	2,500
Theater	24	60,000
Tower*	10	25,000
Town Hall	22	55,000
Trade Shop	10	25,000
University	78	195,000
University*	40	100,000
Watchtower	12	30,000
Watergate	2	5,000
Waterfront	90	225,000
Waterfront*	36	90,000
Waterway	3	7,500

[darthcharon]

Question about leadership: what would you say qualifies the individual special bonuses? Specifically, as heads of houses, do we qualify as having "great renown", would I qualify for "fairness and generosity" as a LG paladin, and are my paladin spells and abilities enough to qualify for having a "special power"? Only ask because I'm basically using the leadership feat to create my "Silver Blades", and I need to stat them out and such.