[D&D-3.5e] Recluce Series by L.E Modesitt, interest probe

[Cleokatrah]

Thanks. BTW - Crellan, I will be sending you a pm in the semi-near future. Give me a week to jiggle my brain.

[Dmoogle]

If you need more player, I'll join.

Only problem I can see is that the blacks get stiffed on magic. Theirs not really any reason to play a black mage, unless there is going to be non- adventure based gaming. Either that or we'll have quite a few Crestlins.(sp?)

[Blayz]

Originally Posted by Dmoogle

If you need more player, I'll join.

Only problem I can see is that the blacks get stiffed on magic. Theirs not really any reason to play a black mage, unless there is going to be non- adventure based gaming. Either that or we'll have quite a few Crestlins.(sp?)

Pardon?

Name one encounter between white and black that was a win for the white!

[ricktur63]

Well the balance must be maintained. If one grew too strong the other would gain more power. In this manner the forces of black and white, ebb and flowed back and forth for many many years.

[Lanthar Mandragoran]

That was a great series. I think blayz may be onto something in using Psionics and limiting the powers available to each side. Though there very likely could be powers that both sides can use, but the details of how they are used vary.

btw - crestlin rocked because he was ingenius, NOT because he was uber-powerful, he simply used black "magic" in ways no-one had thought of before.

Also, keep in mind. Black vs. White is / was not the same as Good vs. Evil. the books on Crestlin simply happened during a time where the White ruling party was in power and many were evil. Chaos is chaos, it's not moral. The same with Order.

That does not preclude white working with black, it's just that most of the time the idealogies of HOW to accomplish a goal clash.

[Lanthar Mandragoran]

Did anyone ever put anything together on this?

[Cleokatrah]

I had a few ideas put together but I honestly don't have enough experience to dm it. I've also studied up a bit on psionics and while it looks like it can be adapted, i was thinking a bit differently. If anyone wants to dm this, I'm certainly interested. I say everyone throw your ideas out and we'll see if we can adapt this.

My original Idea was something like this:
1. Leave all the classes in place. That way a person can create whatever character he wants.
2. Feats/Spells/Etc will all be labeled as either good(black) or evil(white). I would not go and name each and every spell/feat in the books but take them as players showed interest in them. It is pretty easy, anyhow, to determine which spells/feats would be which. Of course, there are a number of spells/feats that would also fall in the grey category.
3. Alignment. All players must chooe to be either black or white. To become a grey, one must work for it, as it is the hardest alignment to maintain.
4. The alignment table of dnd must be altered to allow to something like this Black Master---Black2---Black1---Black Limbo---Grey---White Limbo---White1---White2---White Master. This makes sense in a minute.
5. Like the book, your alignment is something you must maintain. Characters start as black2/white2 and their actions, spells they use, speech, etc determine further movement, if any. So a black that performed white actions would slowly move to a grey, and vice versa.


And that, I believe, is where I got stumped. Perhaps just adapting the psionics would be easier...

[Ray]

Monks-Order
Wizards-Order/Grey
Paladins-Order/Chaos
Bards-Order/Grey/Chaos
Druids-Grey
Fighters-Order/Grey/Chaos
Scorcerers- Grey/Chaos
Barbarions-Grey/Chaos
Clerics-Order/Chaos
Rogues-Grey/Chaos
Rangers-Order/Grey/Chaos

Thats one way too look at the class system well at least in my mind it is.

[Cleokatrah]

Resurrecting this, as i have become a bit more famaliar with dnd. Here is what I believe I will need:

1) Patience. I don't foresee this game coming together until after the holidays and by holidays I mean the big ones.

2) Help. Big time. I would like a knowlegable, able being to brainstorm with me and develop the specifics for the campaign. More than one person is certainly encouraged.


Homebrew rules I am sure of:

1) A character's alignment will work as a fluctuating line which will be dictated by his/her actions. This is only a method in progress so there will likely be adjustments but I think I have come up with the gist. The alignments will be:
Order Master
Greater Black
Black
Lesser Black
Void
Grey
Void
Lesser White
White
Greater White
Chaos Master

The void on either side of the grey is because grey is supposed to be the hardest alignment to maintain. Therefore, the penalties for moving outside a grey alignment will be severe, and the path to becoming a grey will be difficult.

I haven't come up with the exact way this works but I'm very close and this is one of the aspects I would like help with. Basically, what I have so far is that a character gains alignment points which move him up or down the spectrum, and movements up and down the spectrum will be a slow cumulation.

2) All classes should be available. I'm sure there will be some we will need to adapt.

3) Spells, feats and abilities may be assigned an alignment, such as fire magic=white & wind magic=black. Others will be alignment-less.


Things I need to develop:

1) Story. Suggestions welcome.

2) Customized feats & classes.

3) Rules for PrCs


Other notes:

1) Psionics, as it stands, will not work with this. Someone else may be able to, and I would be readily open to give it a try, but my mind just won't get it to work.


If anyone is interested in helping with this, please be famaliar with the books (or go read one) and pm me or leave a note here. I am not looking for players right now. I am looking for someone to assist in its development and that development will be slow. The other games I'm committed to will hold precedence.

[Sithobi1]

I'm definitely in. Psionics would be pretty much the same as Magic, in that direct damage/destruction is chaos, while indirect death/destruction would be order. Not to mention that Psionics is closer to how the books discuss magic, in that it requires no components and you get tired the more you use, and can do things with different power levels.
Also, is it possible to jump directly from Lesser White to Lesser Black? To be forced to go through 2 Void stages would be pretty hard on someone.

[Sithobi1]

Originally Posted by Lanthar Mandragoran

btw - crestlin rocked because he was ingenius, NOT because he was uber-powerful, he simply used black "magic" in ways no-one had thought of before.

Actually, he was "uber-powerful", since he was an order focus.
Also, there should be an alternative to Grey, for normal people who are neither chaos nor order.
Something like this:
Black -..Grey.- White
.........-Neutral-
This accounts for someone who has no wish to be Grey who happens to be passing through this stage, much like Megaera when she was becoming Black through Crestlin's influence.

[Cleokatrah]

I've looked at psionics and the mechanics behind it won't work for this game. Unless someone can come up with a viable method and show me, that's how my opinion is staying. Of course, if someone comes up with a viable plan then by all means...

Also, is it possible to jump directly from Lesser White to Lesser Black? To be forced to go through 2 Void stages would be pretty hard on someone.

No. Going from white to black is a dramatic change on a person and they must briefly become a grey to do so. I will, however, elaborate a bit on alignments. The area of Void-Grey-Void essentially takes up the same room in the spectrum as say, Lesser Black. The reason for this is that Grey is the hardest of all alignments to maintain so slipping outside of its borders should be easier. So while Void-Grey-Void is a composition of three, it only takes up as much space as one and therefore a character going from Lesser Black to Lesser White, or vice versa, will have an average sized trip through the three.

To better explain, here's a rough graph of distances between the alignments:

Master --------------- G. Black ------------ Black --------- L. Black ---------- Void --- Grey --- Void ---------- L. White (repeat same distance s other side)

Also, there should be an alternative to Grey, for normal people who are neither chaos nor order.
Something like this:
Black -..Grey.- White
.........-Neutral-
This accounts for someone who has no wish to be Grey who happens to be passing through this stage, much like Megaera when she was becoming Black through Crestlin's influence.

I haven't completed this yet but there will be benefits according to your alignment, so to be nuetral would have no benefits. Even the citizens without powers who lived upon Recluce carried order within them just from being on the isle. So no neutrals.

As for Mageara, I believe she did cross the Grey line, though she may have done so quickly as to Creslin's overwhelming alignment and the link that they shared. There is another example of crossing over in the books with the character Cerryl, where he is a white mage that becomes a grey to consort with a black healer. The transition in those books are more detailed.

[Sithobi1]

What doesn't work about Psionics?
Also, what about the citizens on Candar, like...whatshisname...Destrin or something, the one Lerris works for in The Magic of Recluce? Lerris says that he was neither orderly nor chaotic.

[Cleokatrah]

Psionics doesn't work because
1) There are too many powers that deal with the mind and Recluce is a world whose ideas are centered on black and white magic, not mind magic.
2) There is more variety for players, that fit more with Recluce, in the regular phb and some other books, than in psionics.
3) I am not overly famaliar with psionics, other than reading the online guide.

However, the idea of having a certain number of points to draw from each day is something I am considering. I'm still working that out, along with the idea of fatigue points.

Also, what about the citizens on Candar, like...whatshisname...Destrin or something, the one Lerris works for in The Magic of Recluce? Lerris says that he was neither orderly nor chaotic.

I'm not saying neutral is not in the books but it will not be in this game. A player will either be order based or chaos based and there will be one group of each, so a neutral character has no place in the game.

[Kalamadea]

Originally Posted by Cleokatrah

A player will either be order based or chaos based

awwww, that sux. The grey wizards are the Best, especially Justen. I mean, come on, being able to twist Order into Chaos and visa versa? And being able to bind Chaos within Order? But then, didn't Justen show "more basic order than anyone on Recluse" and that "even being around him would make your average White squirm" and that was after he had spent two seasons in Naclos. But be that as it may, I would still me very interested in this game. That is, if you still have any room. And when you said that Black mages couldn't kill. Yes they can, I distictly remember Creslin killing a whole lot of people. So, I might suggest that a Black could kill, only they would get physically hurt in the meantime, or maybe get some other physical ailment, such as blindness, or dizzy. So, I'm assuming that this game would take place after Creslin, because we have the Order mages, which were a direct result of Creslin, but would this take place before or after Justen's attack on Fairhaven? Whites still came around after that, they just weren't in as great numbers.