[D&D-5e] Mythic Odysseys of Theros [5e w/ Homebrew]

[Sebecloki]

Game Name Mythic Odysseys of Theros [5e w/ Homebrew]

Game System DnD 5e

Theme Sword and Sandals

Flavour Jason and the Argonauts, Clash of the Titans, Assassin's Creed: Odyssey

Character Creation Rules & Campaign Description I am interested in running a homebrew campaign in the Mythic Odysseys of Theros. I am looking for 'walls of text', high effort, high detail, style posters, and I have a very involved application process that will involve using specific character sheets and pages of writing to detail your character's background. However, if you are looking for a detailed game in this setting with elaborate maps and other play aids, that is what I am proposing. I will expect 1 substantial post Monday-Friday, and additional posts on the weekend would be ideal, but not required. I will be creating some of my own maps that will be high res. and large in size. I'll upload them on an uguu.se or pomf.se clone or EasyZoom. You'll need a computer that can handle that kind of material. I may use something like https://new.tableplop.com or https://tarrasque.io/signup for maps. Again, you need to have access to a computer if it won't run on mobile (I have no idea, and that's not a concern of mine in selecting tech resources for this game), and a platform that can run these programs. Application Rules/Format: *First, you need to completely fill out this character sheet: https://www.reddit.com/r/TherosDMs/c...fillable_pdfs/. When I say completely fill out, I meant I want all the mechanics/entries (as in, cut and pasted from whatever source, in full, and clearly formatted), for every racial ability, class ability, sub-class ability, feat, talent, and spell. If you have any magic items, that needs to be in there too. The goal is that I don't want to have to look anything up to figure out where numbers are coming from. If you need extra pages, just copy/snip out that page and add in more sheets to the pdf with adobe or whatever office software you use. There are lots of free programs/sites online to merge pdfs. I don't care if it's 10 pages long, I want all the information in one place. It has to be on these sheets as well -- I want everyone's character in the same presentation format. EDIT: it's been brought to my attention in a DM that https://aurorabuilder.com will provide the mechanics info I need, and has the Theros options, so that would be fine to use as well. It will be impossible to use it for some 3pp. options if that's what you want to use, so in that case, use the other sheet I listed above. *For ability scores, you can use the 27 pt. buy with the modifications from this free resource which allows flaws to get extra points, and also expands the chart up and down for higher and lower values: https://www.dmsguild.com/product/217...ate_id=2805019. *Races/classes -- I'm going to prioritize those who use the Theros races/classes, but you can use anything that's published, including 3pp. No homebrew (I've selected some homebrew materials, for use below, but I don't want additional proposals from players, these are the only homebrew I'm allowing). No kalashtar, warforged, or other such things that don't fit in the setting. No guns. This isn't complicated, it's ancient Greece, and it should be fairly obvious if something doesn't fit. Owlin might be created by the goddess Ephara. Centaurs, satyrs, fauns, half-medusa, lamia, half-hydras/multi-headed kobolds, might be options -- no, I don't have rules for all of that, you'd have to find a published source that does. I think the basic D&D races (elves, etc.) can also work. I just got an old supplement from Necromancer games that suggests adaptations. Some of it is fluff. I think it could be updated in some fashion to 5e. *Start at 5th level. *We're going to use this https://www.reddit.com/r/UnearthedAr...eats_worth_of/ Talent Trees rule variant with the Variant 1: Starting and Bonus Talent Points: Variant 1: Starting and Bonus Talent Points: ""Variant 1: Starting and Bonus Talent Points: At 1st-level you gain 2 starting talent points. Additionally, whenever your proficiency bonus increases, you gain 1 bonus talent point (this occurs at levels 5, 9, 13, and 17)."" *We're also going to add subskills to the skill system. These are the basic rules we're using: https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comment..._skill_system/ And these are additional possible subskills for each skill as options: https://mad-matt.com/2020/01/17/subs...-skill-system/ For equipment and magic items, I'm happy to basically go by the 'rule of cool' as long as you dont' try to break the game. I want details about any magic items -- was it handed down by your temple, does it have a name, what kind of adventure did you find it on, etc. Make it more than a sword +1. Once you've finished the mechanical element, I have an additional questionnaire that has to be filled out; this should be several pages of fluff detail. Cut and paste this into a word document and fill it out. The more detail, the better. Attach that to your character sheet. Character Questionnaire: Name (Given, Nickname): This would include any surnames, religious names, etc., as well as names in different languages, as well as any history about how the name was given, or contexts where the character uses particular names. Age (Age Cohort): This includes both the numerical age in years, and perhaps an alternative value in a different counting system or two, as well as where this number places the character in their culture or species' age cohorts -- i.e., a youth, teenager, middle adult, etc. Sex/Gender/Sexuality: This refers to any information on gender presentation, species gender (does the species have a biological or cultural 'third' (or fourth, fifth) gender?), and romantic or affinitive dispositions -- hetero/homo/bi/a-sexual etc. Species (Subspecies): Example, Glasskrystal Kobold -- and explain what that means. Maybe they're kobolds with mind magic crystals embedded in their pink scales that contain the accumulated dreams of their ancestors? This can be applied to subspecies of Theros races that don't necessarily have mechanical differentiation, but might have different coloration, culture, etc. Physiology/Physiognomy: Height, weight, musculature, body art -- piercings, tattoos, color of scales, hair, eyebrows, nails. A broken horn, etc. History of any injuries or outstanding features -- how did the character tear a wing, or gain a tattoo which signals a particular achievement in their culture. Height,body weight,skin tone,body hair,moles,freckles,hair color and type,eye color,nose shape,ears shape,body shape,body deformations,mutilations and other variations such as amputations, scars, burns and wounds. Dress: What outfits do they usually wear -- what's their cultural basis, what do they reflect about the character? Detail a few common outfits they might don or want to acquire. -clothing, including headgear and footwear -style and colour of haircut (see also dreadlocks, braids, ponytail, wig, hairpin, facial hair, beard and moustache) -cosmetics, stage makeup, body paintings, permanent makeup -body modifications, such as body piercings and tattoos, plastic surgery -decorative objects (jewelry) such as a necklaces, bracelets, rings, earrings -medical or body shape altering devices (e.g. tooth braces, bandages, casts, hearing aids, cervical collar, crutches, contact lenses of different colours, glasses, gold teeth) Tools: Not martial equipment -- i.e., a handyman set handed down from a beloved relative, give some history to the individual items. Were they purchased, made, or given? How old are they? How well made are they? Examples: jewelry goggles watch hair ornaments hats and caps Arms and Armor: Same kinds of details as with the 'tools' category -- come up with stories about each dagger and/or sword, where they were purchased, what they've been used for, etc. Mannerisms: Any physical ticks, like always standing ram-rod straight, or thumb-twiddling? Examples: Blushing, crying, fainting, hiccup, stuttering, reddening of the skin due to increased blood flow due to exertion. Sweating, shivering, nose bleeding, skin color changes due to sunshine or frost. Culture (sub-culture): What is their culture and/or subculture -- i.e., a French Catholic (but equivalent fantasy concepts). Personality: Surly? Friendly? Under what conditions (Surly to strangers, friendly to long time acquaintances?) Religion/Philosophy/Worldview: Any sort of ethical or meaning-making outlook, or combination of influences that motivates the character. Can be an organization or a perspective. Were they born into it, or acquired it? How stridently do they adhere to one or more of these affiliations? Profession/avocation: What does the character do for a living or for hobbies -- how long have they done it? When and why did they acquire this interest? Languages: What languages does the character speak, and how well (reading/writing/speaking level). Special Abilities: This is going to be the most detailed section -- think about 3-12 entries of special things the character can do. This can be a magic system, a set of divine boons, special martial artist abilities, etc. It can embrace a wide range between a feat and a whole magic system with a number of spells described. The key here is detail -- if it's a special martial artist move -- where does it come from, how did the character learn it, and give some narrative details -- when it's used, does the whole vicinity go quiet? When a form of casting is used, does it make the character unable to speak for several minutes, and make the air smell like sulfur? The more detail the better. One special thing: Are they the only individual to speak a certain language? The last surviving member of a royal family? One weakness/secret: Are they terrified of the color yellow? Biography/Family History: Bowl me over with the detail here. Finally, I'd like some high quality character art if you can find or make something appropriate, but that's not strictly necessary, and I'm more concerned about the other stuff. Other Notes: I'm getting some great ideas from the TherosDM subreddit -- one idea I really like is expanding the scale and concept of the world. The canonical setting is quite small -- only about the size of Greece and Italy. I'm going to conceive of the city-states as larger polities, something more like the empires of Alexander's didachoi rather than strictly city-states with client villages. I also like the idea in one post that Theros, the greek word for summer, is 1 of 4 seasonally-themed continents. In making up your character background, you can propose some additional setting elements that are compatible with the overall sword and sandals feel of the setting, as I'll be making some additions as well. For example, I could easily see the owlin being re-fluffed as servants of the goddess Ephara. I'm open to stuff like that. I think that pretty comprehensively answers most things -- I can field questions in DM, but almost everything should be answered, I hope, by the above. I'm willing to wait a while to get the kinds of characters and participants I'm looking for, so let's set a tentative due date of three weeks (Sept. 4th, by midnight EST). For characters -- looking for 4-7 players depending on how good the applications are. We'll be starting the game in Meletis if that helps you with ideas.

[Ildrahil]

This is intriguing and I'm seriously considering this...especially since my family comes from a portion of Greece called Mani...which is south of Sparta but the area the last of the Spartans supposedly moved to for its defensive qualities when there just weren't enough men left to defend all of Laconia. I have a few questions.

1. Can the PC be a Tiefling? His background would be the son of the Daimon Agon, who was the Greek god associated with contests, and was the brother of Nike, the spirit of victory. Agon also evoked the feeling of competition in humans and flourished their desire to win. When he was born his mother held him up in her arms, and when the feeling of competition overcame her yelled, "Here is one who will compete even with Nike." Well, the Greek gods being the jealous type, Nike heard this and he immediately cursed my PC with the looks of a Tiefling.
   
2. For arms, armor, and equipment, I take it we stick to Greek time frame, so leather armor, or bronze breastplate, shield and greaves, etc. Can any of it be magical? How magical? Uncommon? Rare? Very rare?

[Sebecloki]

Originally Posted by Ildrahil

This is intriguing and I'm seriously considering this...especially since my family comes from a portion of Greece called Mani...which is south of Sparta but the area the last of the Spartans supposedly moved to for its defensive qualities when there just weren't enough men left to defend all of Laconia. I have a few questions.

1. Can the PC be a Tiefling? His background would be the son of the Daimon Agon, who was the Greek god associated with contests, and was the brother of Nike, the spirit of victory. Agon also evoked the feeling of competition in humans and flourished their desire to win. When he was born his mother held him up in her arms, and when the feeling of competition overcame her yelled, "Here is one who will compete even with Nike." Well, the Greek gods being the jealous type, Nike heard this and he immediately cursed my PC with the looks of a Tiefling.
   
2. For arms, armor, and equipment, I take it we stick to Greek time frame, so leather armor, or bronze breastplate, shield and greaves, etc. Can any of it be magical? How magical? Uncommon? Rare? Very rare?

So -- what exactly is the 'bloodline' of the Tiefling here. It sounds like some kind of demigod concept. I guess my question is why this is a tiefling and not an aasimar. From my understanding, the greek concept of a daimon was broader than our conception of demon, and didn't necessarily have an infernal aspect, but was more like the Arabian concept of the Jinn -- hidden beings that could be good or bad. I'd have to hear a little more about what exactly your notion of Tiefling is here.

Here's a product that has some alternative tiefling bloodlines for Theros.

https://www.dmsguild.com/product/355...hor_of_product. \
https://www.dmsguild.com/product/355...hor_of_product.

For armor and weapons, I do want to stick to bronze age arms and armor. I wrote above I was willing to basically handwave equipment, but if you need specific rules beyond 'reasonable, rule of cool', I can certainly provide that. Here's a free product with Therosian magic items. https://www.dmsguild.com/product/332...ems-of-Theros/. I'm more concerned with the story you explain how you got it than what the thing actually is.

I've been looking at adventures, and there's a published Odyssey knock off I might get as the basis for the campaign -- it still starts in Meletis like I wrote above.

[Ildrahil]

Yes, the ancient Greek concept of Daemon was not the same as the what we consider demons. That said, Greek deities usually had multiple aspects. Zeus could be magnanimous and just as easily he could be cruel. When his mother held my PC up, I'm working on a name, and compared him to Nike, Nike in a jealous rage cursed him with appearance of his father's less appealing aspect, that of win at any cost. Hence, the Tiefling appearance rather than Aasimar. At least, that is my concept.

I'll look over what you sent me today.

[Althrion]

This sounds just awesome. As you said you would allow 3pp: Does this include stuff from advanced 5e?

[Sebecloki]

Originally Posted by Althrion

This sounds just awesome. As you said you would allow 3pp: Does this include stuff from advanced 5e?

I'm not in principle opposed to it, but I think it's going to be really hard to balance around the core system -- the races are built differently -- specifically, they get additional powers over the levels, including I believe at 5th level, where we are staring, and the classes have more features.

I'm going to be using monsters from that bestiary, along with some other 3pp. resources to make the foes more interesting -- Dark Souls style 'not even my final form powers', additional legendary abilities and talents, etc.

If you want to use that, how do you see dealing with the different construction design of the races and the class power level? I feel like we'd have to make some adjustments to the core races and classes to make that material work well together.

[Althrion]

Well, the authors say it is supposed to be 100% compatible (that´s why base 5e subclasses can be used with the advanced versions). Some have mostly a shift or are just more flexible (like fighter getting combat maneuvers etc, but less ASI, no action surge etc.).
The races are not needed etc. I was actually talking only about the classes.

That said, unlike the authors I think the new classes are a tad stronger.
So my idea to deal with that is to handle it via the "special things" a character can do. Just take less of them.
Or use the combat maneuver system (that is just fun as hell) as a package for those special abilities. If a whole magic system is feasible, so should be a maneuver system, especially as you mention yourself "special martial artist abilities".
I am a sucker for pure martials, so I would totally be willing to take nothing but the combat maneuvers as his special abilities.

Just my thoughts and I am totally fine with a firm no.

[Sebecloki]

Originally Posted by Althrion

Well, the authors say it is supposed to be 100% compatible (that´s why base 5e subclasses can be used with the advanced versions). Some have mostly a shift or are just more flexible (like fighter getting combat maneuvers etc, but less ASI, no action surge etc.).
The races are not needed etc. I was actually talking only about the classes.

That said, unlike the authors I think the new classes are a tad stronger.
So my idea to deal with that is to handle it via the "special things" a character can do. Just take less of them.
Or use the combat maneuver system (that is just fun as hell) as a package for those special abilities. If a whole magic system is feasible, so should be a maneuver system, especially as you mention yourself "special martial artist abilities".
I am a sucker for pure martials, so I would totally be willing to take nothing but the combat maneuvers as his special abilities.

Just my thoughts and I am totally fine with a firm no.

It would sort of depends on what specifically you wanted to use -- I am going to use some of the material myself, so I'm not going to issue a strict no, but looking some of the conversion materials suggests different solutions for different elements. If it's just a class, that's different than just a race, for example. The build rules above would allow someone to use a 5e conversion of Tome of Battle, or 5e spheres, so I don't think it's that big a difference. However, I'm going to have to look at the whole party once I get submissions in. If only one person is using some system that makes them wildly out of line with the other party members, that would be a consideration if there are like 12+ applicants. It might not matter if only 4 applicants finish characters.


Honestly, if I was just going to pick whatever rules I could imagine -- I'd use some combination of A5E and https://www.kryxrpg.com, and this magic system that replaces vancian with the mtg mana system https://www.dmsguild.com/product/314...iate_id=175818.

Or I'd use PF with some 3.5 stuff -- specifically the extra skills, spells, and prestige classes from Relic and Rituals: Olympus, and use stuff like the epilketoi, the godling classes from rogue genius, and make some kind of MTG mana system out of spheres and/or akasha. Even mythic rules would make sense in that context fluff wise, though in practice I think they're a total mess.

However, I don't think you can really expect to do all that rules stuff AND have all the character development -- I think you can kind of do one unusual thing per game. In this case, it's the distinctive setting and the long posts. I'm trying to keep the rules side, at least for players, rather simple.

I seriously thought about using PF1e/3.5 or A5E, but I concluded based on my recent experience that I think a PF1e/3.5 or A5E recruitment with 3pp. stuff would quickly end up focused on pages of "oooh, what if I combined this feat with that ability -- would you allow this combo to stack?" That ends up being overwhelming to me because there's usually a crowd of like 12 that ask 1 or more questions per post and create this huge backlog of obscure rules interactions queries I have to spend time googling to try to understand and answer. That would work if applicants were happy just to be given some guidelines and make characters without a lot of input, but my general experience is the kind of player that wants to play in that game needs to also have the recruiting DM willing to engage in the theorycrafting and rules discussion for page and pages. Additionally, general impression of recruitments is players burn out on the mechanics of that after like 12 pages of discussion and don't really want to even play any more, and probably wouldn't fill out a character app of this detail on top of theorycrafting all the other stuff. I'm honestly feeling more and more like any version of the d20 system doesn't work great after about 10th level max.

I'm coming out of doing a 18th level PF recruitment where everyone instantly quit -- I mean like, they walked into a cave and couldn't be bothered to do anything, and that after spending a month making gestalt 18th level characters. Had another one of 16th level gestalt/MR 2 characters -- again, didn't even start the first quest, most didn't even post. I've sort of burned out on that stuff. A gestalt mythic campaign in a Greek setting with mythic rules sounds cool in the abstract, but I can't really imagine it'd end up being anything more than a few months of theory crafting and maybe a single combat, and I'd like to actually do a campaign here because I like the setting.

Consequently, my big 'ask' for this recruitment is to do a character app. (i.e., the questionnaire) that's several pages of writing, and I think doing a lot of rules tinkering beyond that is not really going to be possible to get a group willing to make a good writing based game at the same time, which is my main concern. I am going to use the A5E bestiary, the dragonix expanded monster manuals and monster talents, and the bloodied and bruised series to make the monsters more interesting, and might throw in some optional rules like diagonals or facing, or at least try them out, but I'm trying to keep things mostly pretty simple on the player facing side so I can get the writing-level buy in I want to really make use of this unusual setting. I have advanced degrees in ancient religion and history, and I've taken 11 semesters of ancient Greek among a number of other languages, so I can do a pretty thorough job playing up the mythic-creative concepts of the setting that are sort of comparable to Glorantha and Eliade's Eternal Return concept and Joseph Campbell's work. That's really the angle I want to explore here.

[TibbyLTP]

Oh man, I do love this setting. While I have not really delved into much Greek mythos in a long time, I was pretty obsessed when I was a kid (Age of Mythology was/is the best RTS game I will not take any questions).

While not part of Theros, I feel that the Naga from Plane Shift: Amonkhet (reskinned to be more lamia like for the Greek stylings) or the Minotaur and Centaur from Mordenkainen: MoM would all be pretty thematically appropriate per your approval.

It will take me some time to get through the homebrew stuff you have provided, but I will see what I can whip up!

[Sebecloki]

Naga would be fine.

[97mg]

Hi Sebecloki, this looks really wonderful!

Would you be interested in allowing a Siren application? I'm thinking of using the Odyssey of the Dragonlords race for it if that works. If the flight feature is too OP, I'd be happy to tone it down or have it heavily restricted.

As the game starts in Meletis I imagine this could be ok, given the Siren Sea etc. My challenge could be to make a Siren that had either found a way to assimilate into "city life" via her background, or found some other way to avoid suspicion. This leads me to asking how you anticipate the wide range of races that might be playing, coming together for a common goal? Will this be something covered pre-game, so we can establish existing relationships and knowledge of each other? Or will the game pull the characters together somehow once it is running?

[Sebecloki]

Originally Posted by 97mg

Hi Sebecloki, this looks really wonderful!

Would you be interested in allowing a Siren application? I'm thinking of using the Odyssey of the Dragonlords race for it if that works. If the flight feature is too OP, I'd be happy to tone it down or have it heavily restricted.

As the game starts in Meletis I imagine this could be ok, given the Siren Sea etc. My challenge could be to make a Siren that had either found a way to assimilate into "city life" via her background, or found some other way to avoid suspicion. This leads me to asking how you anticipate the wide range of races that might be playing, coming together for a common goal? Will this be something covered pre-game, so we can establish existing relationships and knowledge of each other? Or will the game pull the characters together somehow once it is running?

I imagine we'll discuss it some before hand. Siren is fine.

Just to give you a sense of some adjustments I'm making to the setting that may impact your fluff -- the book itself is pretty bare bones and focuses mostly on the gods--there are only really 3 cities in the setting. Instead of 200 miles, I'm treating the map like the coastline is about the size of the north american seaboard, and the Draka islands are not just going to be movable in position, but also divinely morphic in size -- I'm imagining a lot of them being sort of like demiplanes that can be between the size of an actual island to a small continent like australia, the latter to account more for lost world concepts. That also allows there to be more island/maritime civilizations of different sorts -- there could even be a whole kingdom of sirens somewhere.

The game is starting in Meletis, but I'm thinking of using a campaign from DM guild which is like a D&D version of Homer's odyssey -- it's basically a series of island episodes. I think that would work well for pbp where you sometimes have people drop off, and would be easy to pick up plot wise if we have to replace characters, and would give an over all arc to the story that would also be easy to enter into midway. It would also be something where we could tie it off nicely if everyone got bored, because it'd pretty much be episodic island by island -- when everyone wanted to be done we could just decide after the current island that the characters find their way home. I'm still thinking about it though, and am open to suggestions.

[TibbyLTP]

Originally Posted by Sebecloki

I'm still thinking about it though, and am open to suggestions.

If you haven't already seen them, there is a series of books called "Uncaged" that hold a few dozen adventures that delve into a lot of different mythological creatures, only a few of them are Greek, but could give some inspiration if nothing else. I have not run through any of them, nor have I read through many either, so I can't speak for the quality of all of them (as they are written by different people), but all of the reviews I have read of the books have been glowing. Let me know if you might be interested, I can send some screenshots over.

On another note, I am sure you would be fine with this, but are you ok with custom backgrounds? None of the official ones really fit what I want. I would obviously pass it by you for approval first.

Also, are you ok with UA stuff?

[Sebecloki]

Originally Posted by TibbyLTP

If you haven't already seen them, there is a series of books called "Uncaged" that hold a few dozen adventures that delve into a lot of different mythological creatures, only a few of them are Greek, but could give some inspiration if nothing else. I have not run through any of them, nor have I read through many either, so I can't speak for the quality of all of them (as they are written by different people), but all of the reviews I have read of the books have been glowing. Let me know if you might be interested, I can send some screenshots over.

On another note, I am sure you would be fine with this, but are you ok with custom backgrounds? None of the official ones really fit what I want. I would obviously pass it by you for approval first.

I don't really want to get into player-created homebrew. I said above I was open to anything published, but the homebrew window leaves too many options with no way to know if they'd be balanced without playtesting. I'm only adding in things that are subsystems, expanding the skill and attribute creation system. Once we get into homebrew races, classes, and other player features, that has the potential to interact with a lot of other systems. I'm not much of a designer, so I'm not in a good position to evaluate character options of that sort.

UA stuff is fine.

[TibbyLTP]

I will follow your decision, but I just want to make sure you didn't misunderstand me. None of the backgrounds (like Acolyte, Criminal, Soldier, etc.) really the background of my character, I can find one that kinda fits, but I was just wondering if I could write my own. The PHB allows for customizing backgrounds by swapping the skills and equipment, I just wanted to basically do that and change some of the flavor text.

Like I said, if no, thats fine, I just want to make it clear I wasn't talking about any homebrew skills or abilities or anything.