[OOC] Chat

[Humble Athena]

I guess I'll see what the others do.

Thanks.

[The Fool]

How many can I catch in a fifteen foot cone?

[Cidolfas]

Sorry for the delay. Depending on the origin of the cone, up to four. They are somewhat bunched and approximately 5 ft from each other.

[Ehlana]

Cid, I'm not so sure about my not killing that thing. Assuming a 19 hits... I just did 18 damage to it. That's more than enough to cream your average zombie.

[The Fool]

Wait...they're zombies. Zombies are staggered. How did they move and attack in a single round?

[Cidolfas]

These are not your standard zombies, they have more than 18 hp, and they can move and attack in the same round. They cannot charge or make a double move, however. Welcome to Ravenloft

[Althea]

*Feels the horror start creeping in...*

[The Fool]

...okay, this is getting confusing. Can we please do things in order, in the future? This whole "rolling the zombies' attack rolls and narrating their attacks before the readied actions even though the readied actions happened first" is not only messy and confusing, it also puts us at risk of having to retcon events because we narrated them in the wrong order. Nikol, for instance, just did 33 damage to a single zombie without a critical hit, and Kaia did 18 on a regular strike. Assuming they both aim at the same zombie, that's 51 damage. If Kaia had gotten a critical hit, it would increase by another large amount. It wasn't impossible for them to have killed one of these things before they even got the chance to attack. And even when this causality trouble works out, it's still confusing to follow what's going on when events are being narrated completely out of order.

[Ehlana]

Umm.. Cid, Kaia now goes before the zombies in the initiative count, due to when her readied action went off. It is not yet their turn. The reason I have not posted for her is that I am waiting for you to address The Fool's concerns, which I completely share.

I would also like to mention some issues with your "Ravenloft zombies". First of all, most of the characters have grown up in Ravenloft or have spent some time there. At level seven, they know how strong Ravenloft zombies are. Therefore, you should have communicated this to us, as we were making tactical decisions based on what we assumed our characters knew. If these are special Ravenloft curse zombies, well, that's fair enough, but a Perception or a Knowledge roll (Which Humble Athena made and you, as far as I am aware, ignored) should have allowed us to be aware of this. That's sort of the point of taking Knowledge skills.

[Cidolfas]

First off I'd like to be upfront about something. I volunteered to DM this group and I do not like the tone of some of these responses I've received. I understand we are feeling each other out and some of you have gamed together before but I feel like some of these concerns would be better addressed via PM. I feel like there is a way to go about this, and it has taken away some of my enjoyment in this game.

Secondly, for TheFool's concerns, I understand and will try to make things clearer in the future. The only roll which didn't go into effect prior to the zombie's attacks was Kaia's. I already added the values for Nikol's blow as HA rolled when the attack was readied. If, from now on, the rolls are made when an attack is readied then it will go into effect immediately before the zombies turn and so no changes would be needed and I can insert the fluff at the beginning of my update. I believe that was the major issue this time and I just chalked it up to our first time in combat. After the initial readied actions all others have been in order, discounting the one from Kaia I missed.

And finally the zombies. These are not "Ravenloft zombies" but rather adventure specific zombies. As such they are a different strand than normal ones which have not been encountered by any in the party yet, or elsewhere for that matter. The characters can assume all they want, but part of the horror of this campaign is the fact that the group will face the unknown or variations of what they are used to. Now that you all have faced them once, you will be better informed about them in the future. I understand the point of taking Knowledge rolls, but sometimes there is not much the characters would know in game more than what I have given.

[TheChuck]

Yeah to back Cid up a bit here, there are zombies, then there are ravenloft zombies, then there are these things. Having been a player in this adventure before, I clearly recall that feeling of 'holy crap I just did 35 damage to this zombie and it's still coming!' This adventure is challenging, and will press the characters to their breaking point and beyond. Take nothing for granted about any of the iconic monsters that you meet.

[Ehlana]

I am sorry if you felt the tone of the responses was impolite. The only tone with which they were written was mild exasperation. As to PMs, I see no reason to keep things secret. First of all, these issues concern the whole party and thus should be addressed where the whole group can see. Secondly, the four of us are buddies and some of us chat outside of the game fairly often. There is really no point in trying to keep secrets in this situation. The Fool knew of my issues long before I made you aware of them and I believe I mentioned them to Humble Athena as well.

Secondly, the confusion does not result from my failing to roll ahead. The confusion is the result of everything happening out of order. I understand that you may feel it is best to work this way in order to speed up the game, but in this case, all four of the players are on the site and post at least daily. I personally feel it is more important to know what happened before you act before you decide how to act, but The Fool has covered that in more detail himself. Also, when you want your players to observe unusual rolling protocol, you should inform them of this in the OOC prior to game start or at least prior to the start of combat. When you do not do so, you can hardly be surprised when they fail to comply with your unstated wishes.

Now, the zombies. I have not the least objection in the world to them being stronger than the average zombie or average ravenloft zombie. If you want to change the stats of any monster in the DMG or make up one of your own, that is absolutely the DMs prerogative. If the adventure path calls for that, so much the better. My issue is with the fact that we should have been given the chance to notice something. The fact, for example, that they weren't shambling and slow (i.e. staggered) should have been fairly easy to notice with a Perception roll. Even if they are otherwise so much like other zombies that Nikol's Knowledge of Undead could not distinguish any other difference, he'd absolutely know that. I'm not saying you should give us a complete copy of their stats, far from it. All I am saying is that noticing that they were different would absolutely be possible and should have been allowed.

[Cidolfas]

I've decided to withdraw as DM of this game to avoid further issues. Thanks for your time and I hope you find a replacement DM to run this for you all.

Also, I wasn't looking for secrets just a little tact.

[Ehlana]

I am not certain why pointing out that you made a few mistakes in running this, your self-admitted first horror game, requires tact. It's not a shameful thing that needs to be whispered about. It's practically inevitable to make a few mistakes when running a different genre. I didn't realize that anyone would feel differently.

That being said, thank you for volunteering to run this game for us. I'm sorry to hear that you prefer leaving to resolving the issues. Good luck in your future DMing career.

[TheChuck]

Alright folks here's the deal. I am willing to take over the reins of this game, but there are some things that must be said.

1st and perhaps foremost, I will not make an in game DM post everyday, nor do I expect you guys to post in game everyday. I will try to post as often as possible, but I cannot promise more than twice a week. I will try to post more often than that, but that's all I can do. DMing, Which is a significant portion of this adventure.running combat specifically, takes a lot of time and effort, and I almost exclusively post from work so sometimes my time is tied up with...well work. If this is ok and you are still with me, keep reading. If you feel that I have taken too long between posts then feel free to give me a bump in the OOC.

2nd, if you have a problem with something that I am doing, for the love of Snuffleupagus do not hop into the OOC and say that I need to do this or need to do that. Please feel free to bring my failings or your concerns to my attention, but attacking the DM is not the way to keep him or her running your game, as has been demonstrated. With regard to the most recent dispute let us consider it finished.

Last for now, this is a challenging adventure and I am not going to pull punches. I usually do, I am generally a nice DM. You guys wanted a Ravenloft horror game and you must know that your character's survival is not guaranteed. I will be lenient when it comes to replacing characters who may have died.

I'm heading home from work now, let me know what you guys think of what I've said and if you want to continue I can pick up where Cid left off.