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  #61  
Old Nov 13th, 2021, 08:38 PM
Yamaneko Yamaneko is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenjitsu View Post
Thank you for the detailed response. I really do appreciate the time and effort that went into it.

To summarize, the Matrix Attributes for the Technomancer's Persona only come in play when the following situations:

1. If your Attack Value (Attack/Sleaze) is larger than the target's Defenses value (Data Processing/Firewall) by 4 or more, gain an edge point when using Data Spike or Tarpit (and I assume this would also apply to using the Complex Form Resonance Spike).

2. If the attacker's Attack Value (Attack/Sleaze) is less than the your Defenses value (Data Processing/Firewall) by 4 or more, gain an edge point when opposing an attack of Data Spike or Tarpit (and I assume this would also apply to using the Complex Form Resonance Spike).
Yes. And the opposing matrix entity (persona, IC) would gain that edge if they beat the PC by four or more.

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3. Adjusting Dice (the difference between Attack and Sleaze dice penalty) if Attack is smaller than Sleaze when doing: Brute Force, Data Spike, or Tarpit.

4. Adjusting Dice (the difference between Attack and Sleaze dice penalty) if Sleaze is smaller than Attack when doing: Backdoor Entry or Probe.
Yes.

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5. Used for the opposing roll if targeted by any Matrix Action.

6. Lastly, used if your opponent in a Matrix battle is trying to Jack Out during combat (this one could technically be grouped with the last one).
It should but this part is far more subjective and is really up to the GM. The system is built on using the Edge mechanic and handing it out pretty well for every possible action but they leave that open to interpretation and really up to how the GM views things. As every GM is different then this is a discussion that should be had.

Many say this is far quicker and easier to deal with than previous editions but in my experience that has not been the case and since everyone has an opinion on whether something should earn an edge, it can get interesting at the table so to speak. So having a Session Zero discussion about how the Edge Mechanics earnings work in their opinion and having that laid out in advance will definitely smooth things out at the table.
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  #62  
Old Jan 5th, 2022, 07:14 AM
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I have 2 question for Shadowrun 6e, regarding Attribute increases from cyberware:

1. If I purchase the strength increase [1] to a cyberhand, does that have any effect on unarmed combat rating/improvement?

2. Does that attribute increase apply to a character's overall strength, or does it rely on that specific limb getting a +1 strength bonus?

Thanks for the help!
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  #63  
Old Jan 5th, 2022, 05:14 PM
Yamaneko Yamaneko is offline
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Originally Posted by Humble Hero View Post
I have 2 question for Shadowrun 6e, regarding Attribute increases from cyberware:

1. If I purchase the strength increase [1] to a cyberhand, does that have any effect on unarmed combat rating/improvement?

2. Does that attribute increase apply to a character's overall strength, or does it rely on that specific limb getting a +1 strength bonus?

Thanks for the help!
I'm going to answer your questions directly first before I add some points about cyberlimbs in general in this edition.

1. Only if that is the only limb being used for the action being taken then it is used on a one for one basis otherwise it is averaged.

2. It does not apply to the character's overall strength as per page 289-290 of the Seattle edition CRB. As a cyberhand it only applies if the hand itself is in active use so gripping, punching, etc. Then pending on the action it is either a direct application or averaged as above.

Now here is the issue that you may run into depending on your natural strength. A cyberhand is a partial limb and as per the rules under arms and legs any partial limbs must have an attribute equal to the rest of the limb or greater. So as long as your natural strength is 2 you don't have to buy the cyberhand strength up and the +1 to three is fine.

If your natural strength is 4 then you need to buy the attribute up to 4 in the cyberhand which would cost 10,000 nuyen, 2 capacity, and be a 2 availability which fills up your capacity on a synthetic cyberhand and half of your capacity on an obvious cyberhand. If you wanted then to be slightly stronger than your natural strength of 4 in this example, you then couldn't do it with a synthetic hand while the cost increase on an obvious one would be another 5k nuyen, 1 capacity and 1 availability.

One thing that isn't spelled out clearly in these rules are that you can raise a limb up to your current natural attribute rating +4. You could technically raise it your maximum attribute possible +4 but the applicable strength usable would only be the former not what you bought it to.

Furthermore, such expenditures quickly eats up a limb's capacity. So it is always wise to consider why you the player want your character to have a cyberlimb as depending on that reason, it can be tricky to properly develop a limb to meet that desire given how they now work in 6e.
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Last edited by Yamaneko; Jan 5th, 2022 at 05:17 PM.
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  #64  
Old Jan 5th, 2022, 08:30 PM
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Yamaneko: Thank you for going so in depth, I appreciate it. I went a little bug-eyed toward the end, but I think I understand... I'll also give some specifics, to make it easier:

The character has a strength of 3, and the cyberhand has hardening and an attribute strength +1 modification.

This was mainly to try and improve unarmed combat application, to increase punch power, so that seems like it will work!

Last edited by Humble Hero; Jan 5th, 2022 at 08:39 PM.
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  #65  
Old Jan 5th, 2022, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Humble Hero View Post
Yamaneko: Thank you for going so in depth, I appreciate it. I went a little bug-eyed toward the end, but I think I understand... I'll also give some specifics, to make it easier:

The character has a strength of 3, and the cyberhand has hardening and an attribute strength +1 modification.

This was mainly to try and improve unarmed combat application, to increase punch power, so that seems like it will work!
Alright so basically you are increasing the cyberhand base strength of 2 to 3 to match the natural strength of 3 of the rest of the limb. So as such, you would just end up using the normal strength rating as everything is even. However you also need to raise the hand's agility to whatever your normal agility is.

So what is your base agility and is it an obvious or synthetic cyberhand?
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  #66  
Old Jan 5th, 2022, 09:19 PM
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I'll send you the character sheet in PM, I think it might be easier?
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  #67  
Old May 17th, 2022, 04:29 PM
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Shadowrun 5E question:

Catalog (Street Grimoire 107). I have... I have questions.

Like half the things in this book, it refers to a "Object Resistance threshold", but I presume that's an Object Resistance test. The errata for this book fixed the range on this spell from T to T (A), so it at least makes sense where you get to search now, but didn't address the threshold vs. test result problem. Whatever, 5e OR is a test, I'm being nitpicky, so moving on...

...except what gets rolled for the OR test on this spell? Let's say the place you're searching contains a whole bunch of rocks (OR 3), one hyper-plastic Simulated Rock (OR 9) -- Another Fine Product from Your Friends at Shiawase! --, and one inactive Ares drone that has been carefully camouflaged to look like a rock (OR 15).
  • Does everything check individually, and I detect the items I beat OR on? Because that sounds awful for the GM.
  • Does the GM roll 12 dice (OR for the Ares drone) and use that to determine my net hits for the entire effect? I can sort of see that making sense from a metaphysical standpoint, but it feels weird that a high-tech item I don't know about (potentially one I can't even see) might stop me from cataloging anything else.
  • In fact, wouldn't that tip off a mage runner that something was weird, paradoxically providing knowledge despite a failed roll? Although it's possible for a mage with, say, 12 dice on Catalog to fail vs. a 3 OR rock, it's really, really unlikely; I'd think that runners have a healthy enough sense of paranoia to assume something's not right if they failed to Catalog a box of rocks, or am I overthinking the level of -- to use the D&D term -- Spellcraft that runners are assumed to possess? Does that answer change with a bunch of Magical Theory?

TLDR: Catalog is a cool spell. How does it work?
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  #68  
Old May 18th, 2022, 03:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Optional Reality View Post
Shadowrun 5E question:

Catalog (Street Grimoire 107). I have... I have questions.

Like half the things in this book, it refers to a "Object Resistance threshold", but I presume that's an Object Resistance test. The errata for this book fixed the range on this spell from T to T (A), so it at least makes sense where you get to search now, but didn't address the threshold vs. test result problem. Whatever, 5e OR is a test, I'm being nitpicky, so moving on...

TLDR: Catalog is a cool spell. How does it work?
There are two types of tests in SR, opposed tests and threshold tests. Depending on the particular action being taken on a threshold test you usually need to exceed the threshold in order to get results.

Generally speaking when you are doing something that affects an object that becomes an opposed test so you roll against the object resistance dice pool as listed and as long as you beat the rolled result you do what you intended to, to the object and your net hits determine how well. Shape Metal to twist a hatch on a ship so it cannot be opened easily would be an opposed roll.

However that table also sets the baseline for a threshold test for objects. Thresholds are often used when there would be a ton of individual tests to roll to save time in certain circumstances like Cataloging an entire room's contents.

You roll once and depending on your hits, you catalog everything in the room where your hits exceed its listed threshold which is the same number as the dice pool for an actual opposed roll. This is to save time and to not ruin the fun for everyone at the table especially the GM.

The GM still has the option to roll individual for specific items or all of them if he wants and it is recommended they roll the test for the PC to determine the results.

Another method of doing it is to roll one opposed roll versus the highest object resistance dice pool category in the range and then you get everything that would fall under the number of hits based on its dice pool listing.

Since it is a mystical effect you do not need to actively see the item.

Spells or abilities like this tend to be a pain for the GM as cool as they are, when they were written, the effect on game play and time really wasn't considered and so most GMs I know hand wave the results. I tend to use the threshold as that is the quickest way to resolve it and you can still spend twenty minutes listing everything out after one test depending on where the caster or the subject of the spell is.

At the end of the day RAW it is implied you should test against each object but that is unrealistic. Use a threshold and net hits is what I would recommend but it should also be discussed with your GM and you the player should make sure the GM is aware of how badly such spells/abilities can slow down a game especially given the level one could go with it and if they do want to allow it, ask how they want to run it.

Also, there are other abilities out there for the matrix equivalent or from a bio-sensor standpoint that are much worse than this and they can easily make a GM want to throw up their hands and walk away especially if a player insists on knowing it to the last detail.

TLDR - Each individual GM is likely to run such spells or abilities differently regardless of RAW so it is best to ask to see how they will or even if they will allow it.
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Last edited by Yamaneko; May 18th, 2022 at 03:34 AM.
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