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  #61  
Old Dec 18th, 2022, 05:59 PM
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If I'm accepted to this campaign I should probably start getting people used to some of the really basic questions I'll most likely be asking. Very new to Pathfinder. I will do my best to look it up, but sometimes there are questions/fine points that don't seem to be explained. So I'm open to answers, opinions from anyone and of course if it's a "determination" then Cat will bang the gavel.

So along those lines I have question(s) concerning the craft(s) skill. Is there a more fundamental skill list somewhere? The reason I ask is because for many skills there would seem to be an underlying broader skill. Weapon/Armor/Tool making would all use a broad skill of blacksmithing. d20pf lists carpentry for instance which would be fundamental to other specific applications, but no blacksmithing. It mentioned "baskets." But if one can make a reed basket you could obviously make other things, hats, baby carrier back pack etc.. And then there's the specifics of a basket. It could be made by a carpenter that strips thin slices, steams, bends etc..

So, this is not an attempt to nit pick. The question is more is there supplement-tomb that organizes craft in to a general to specific structure? Granted that might be hard with the system as it is, but curious how this plays out?

Also, I probably wouldn't bring it up except that we'll be an environment where skills are essential and play a big role.
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  #62  
Old Dec 18th, 2022, 06:16 PM
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Another question for trait/skill. Outlander's Child has

Outlander's ChildAbility. +1 trait skill bonus


What is a trait skill. I have not found reference to it, just traits and skills separately?
(If I must choose between an extra trait or an extra skill then an extra trait would be nice : )

Last edited by RasterFarian; Dec 18th, 2022 at 06:18 PM.
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  #63  
Old Dec 18th, 2022, 06:18 PM
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Hi Acathala .

With the Fantasy Buff / Mentored by Trina trait, you (Siegfried) are personally connected to Trina. the senior leader of the tribe. She's also a fan of C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien - so your character would probably be the most knowledgeable person in that tribe with respect to such important and significant lore. :-)

Let me know if you have any questions.

You would have been among the few to witness the Seedy Player -- though you might have since shared the news of this wonder amongst your peers.

Last edited by CatCanCook; Dec 18th, 2022 at 06:18 PM.
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  #64  
Old Dec 18th, 2022, 06:33 PM
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Hi RasterFarian + all --

I do have a clarification to the rules:

Background skills rules are used, but bonus background skills are not granted.

This has an expanded list of uses of the Craft skill, and those can be considered in-use.

So between that page and the Craft page here:
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/craft/ you cover most likely uses of Craft. If there is a use that does not seem to be covered, ask about it.

Quote:
Outlander’s Child. Prerequisite: Expert. Your father was an Outlander, and while he died when you were young, he exposed you to a wider world, and that has shaped your career. While the tribe had absolute isolation in times past, some people have learned to barter with neighboring tribes. The colorful and musical centaurs of Scorched Hills – a race who call themselves Titanides – are difficult to negotiate with, but more tractable than the implacably hostile Uruk Hai of Malibu. You can save a few coins, you can barter and scrounge with skill, and you know a few water sources, trading posts and personalities of Scorched Hills and the F’nando Valley.

Ability. +1 trait skill bonus and each of the following are class skills: Knowledge (local), Knowledge (geography), Appraise and Lore (F’nando Valley). Start with +75 gp. Every time you first reach a notable trading post (max twice per character level), you gain 100 gp per character level in your first 24 hours of haggling, wrangling and die-hard negotiation.
Pardon but there is a bit of Pathfinder jargon here. Outlander's Child is giving a +1 bonus of type [trait]. Bonuses in Pathfinder are either typed or untyped. If something is typed then it overlaps (does not stack) with something else of the same type.

If you get a +1 bonus to Knowledge(local) from this trait, then that essentially blocks you from getting another +1 bonus to Knowledge(local) from some other trait. However it could stack with some other type of bonus, such as [morale], or [inspiration], or [luck], or [competence].

Now, the +1 bonus applies to all four of the listed skills.

Should you take this trait, F'nando Valley is the primary setting for multiple chapters of this game, so this particular character would know how to get around better than average. You'd get a sneak peek at the map before it gets posted online for all to see (i.e. when the party buys and shares an actual physical map.) With Knowledge (geography) there might be chances to uncover bonus locations on the map - and you get a small extra reward for visiting those places (which you might do in-play or during interludes between chapters). This would dovetail best with a high Intelligence build -- and/or with a Bard build.

Last edited by CatCanCook; Dec 18th, 2022 at 06:40 PM.
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  #65  
Old Dec 18th, 2022, 07:00 PM
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Matias Huru
Name:Matias Haru
Campaign Trait: Orc-Hater

Ability Scores: (15 point buy; think ahead to 25 point-buy at the end of Chapter 3.)
Str:8
Dex:18
Con:14
Int:14
Wis:10
Cha:7

Ethnicity: Blended
Size: Small
Age: 15
Alignment: LN/LE towards Orcs
Faith/Patron: The Road of Vengeance (Slayer Oath and Book of Grudges; A distorted version of Warhammer Fantasy Dwarf)

Level 1 class: Commoner
Traits: Armor Master, Practiced Initiator
Bonus feat: Precise Shot
Level 1 feat: Deadly Agility

Description: Matias is a small man even by the standards of the survivors. Looking constantly half starved and ragged, his eyes are those of a man who has been kicked one too many time. He constantly seems to be trying to disappear into himself and when he moves from place to place it isn't a walk so much as a quiet dash as if trying to hide from everyone's sight.

Personality: He seems constantly unsure of his place in the world and always seems on the verge of running off. He hates large crowds but a few kids and other adults who befriended him find him to be a funny guy who enjoys old comics and the few dance videos that survived into the new world. He likes to sit out in nature watching the sky and just listening to the other animals as they skitter around in what is left of the world. He is extremely protective and has a strange love of dancing both the ancient classics and the more modern ones popular before the end times.

Background: Matias has been through a lot in his life and it shows. His mother died of a wasting sickness early in his life and his father was abusive and an alcoholic. Always the smallest kid in the group, he has a hard time making friends and growing up was a rough time for Matias. He frequently ran away from days or weeks when his father was on one of his benders only to return and try and put their shack back into order. When he reached his early teenage years he ran away permanently. Taking on odd jobs and begging for scraps, his life was hard but it no longer held the constant danger of living with his father. The day of the attack he has spotted a strange bird lurking on the edge of town. It seemed to be like any of the other crows that lurked on the edges but larger and somehow smokey. Following it, it took him to an abandoned junkyard before disappearing. It was that fact that probably saved him when the green-skins came. He hid in horror listening to them rampage and destroy their way through the settlement. Creeping out the next morning, he found only death and destruction and it was at this point something snapped in his mind. He now found himself constantly seeing this crow, but it seemed to only be for his eyes for no others did. It talked to him, whispering things in a language that he didn't know but instinctively understood. Things on how to move and fight. How to ensure that the beasts would pay for the destruction. He became fixated on vengeance and the idea that bringing death was the only way to ensure the others would survive.


The following are OK to defer to later:Fort: +2 Refl: +3 Will: +0
BAB: +0
HP: 8
Skills: Perception, Lore (Warhammer Fantasy), Fly, Perform (Dance)
FCB: Harbinger
Spells: No Spellcasting
Gear: Dagger , Leather Armor, 3x Javelins, Waterskin, Backpack, 3x Trail Rations

Feat tax fix or bonus feat?: Feat Tax
Planned level 2 class:Commoner
Planned level 3 class:Hawkguard-Warder
Planned level 3 feat: Quick Draw +Unknown
Planned level 5 feat: Discipline Focus (Veiled Moon) + Unknown +Unknown

Last edited by mightymconeshot; Dec 19th, 2022 at 07:36 PM.
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  #66  
Old Dec 18th, 2022, 07:02 PM
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I think I got everything completed. Let me know if you need anything else or something needs to be fixed.

Last edited by mightymconeshot; Dec 18th, 2022 at 07:02 PM.
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  #67  
Old Dec 18th, 2022, 07:53 PM
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Hi Mighty,

I updated the applicants sheet for Matias Haru.

Were you going for Medium size, or Small? (Just checking per prior build brainstorming.) Medium is what you have written.

Would Practiced Initiator apply to Hawkguard or Harbinger?

Reminder, the Commoner starts with extremely limited weapon proficiencies. Just one simple weapon. So for Matias that would be dagger or javelins, but the other is non-proficient.

Last edited by CatCanCook; Dec 18th, 2022 at 07:54 PM.
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  #68  
Old Dec 18th, 2022, 08:26 PM
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Hello DM!
I'm just going over everything, it's been a while since I have played pathfinder, and this is a homebrew setting. I'm not familiar with the path of war rules, though glancing through them, it appears that cursed razor may have affinity with my future Hexcrafter, if I take martial training. I do have a story concept in mind though.
Sidenote, I hope your username means cats survived!
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  #69  
Old Dec 18th, 2022, 08:39 PM
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Small.

Probably daggers.

I have to do some math on that to see if it is better to take Unorthodox Method Solar Wind for Harbinger or to boose my Hawkguard levels.
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Old Dec 18th, 2022, 10:33 PM
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@mighty,

Crunching through the math, cause I like math.

So if you put it into Hawkguard and you take that at level 3, then your initiator level would be be 1(2 NPC levels / 2) + 1 (Hawkguard) + 2 (trait) = 4 but capped at 3 at 3rd level. That lets you jump in and take some 2nd level maneuvers in the Hawkguard class.

Then at 4th level, Harbinger comes in. It is 1.5 (3 other class levels) + 1 (Harbinger) = 2.5. So you would be limited to 1st level harbinger maneuvers at level 4. But in the interlude we skip on to level 5, which would have you a level 3.5 initiator. So at level 5 you could start picking up 2nd level maneuvers in Harbinger disciplines. You'd get 3rd level Harbinger maneuvers at 7th character level. At 5th level, your Hawkguard initator level would be 2(4 other class levels / 2) + 1(Hawkguard) + 2(trait) = 5. But you could only take 3rd level maneuvers if you bought them via a feat.

You would always keep the Hawkguard maneuvers separate from the Harbinger maneuvers as they have separate recovery mechanisms.




Opposite approach, put the trait into Harbinger.

At 3rd level as a Hawkguard you are a 2nd level initiator, and so all your Hawkguard maneuvers are capped at 1st level.

Then at 4th level you add Harbinger. Your initiator level is 1.5(3 other class levels/2) + 1 (Harbinger) + 2(trait) = 4. So from the get-go you have access to 2nd level Harbinger maneuvers. At 5th level you'd have access to 3rd level Harbinger maneuvers, and at 7th level you start getting 4th level Harbinger maneuvers.

So what's more important, having a smaller number of more powerful Harbinger maneuvers, but weak Hawkguard maneuvers? Or having weaker Harbinger but a pile of 2nd level Hawkguard maneuvers?




If I were you, and planning on being just a harbinger after 3rd level, I would go for Unorthodox Method Solar Wind for Harbinger -- if ranged combat is a key part your portfolio. Otherwise you just wont get scaled ranged maneuers.

Last edited by CatCanCook; Dec 18th, 2022 at 10:34 PM.
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  #71  
Old Dec 18th, 2022, 11:10 PM
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I'll try to see if I can put an actual idea together in the next couple of days. I love Occultist, because it's just such a weird and wonderful class. But I'm used to playing the Occultist as either an extremely heavy tank at the very low levels or a sort-of pure caster with shenanigans well into the mid levels. I'm not sure what appeals to me most here, especially with the options that are already well-spoken for.

Also, this Greater Stance thing is crazy and needs me to sit down and spend some time considering it!
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  #72  
Old Dec 18th, 2022, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Hello DM!
I'm just going over everything, it's been a while since I have played pathfinder, and this is a homebrew setting. I'm not familiar with the path of war rules, though glancing through them, it appears that cursed razor may have affinity with my future Hexcrafter, if I take martial training. I do have a story concept in mind though.
Sidenote, I hope your username means cats survived!
So the Magus class and the Path of War system don't perfectly mesh. A magus likes to do spell strikes, while the Path of War classes like to do strikes that cost standard actions and don't combine, generally with spells.

The parts of Path of War that would work nicely with a Magus are stances (swift to activate then always on), boosts (swift), and counters (immediate).

You can get some PoW via the Martial Training feats (which are unfortunately based on BAB, which the Magus lags in.). Or you can get them by a dip in a P.o.W class -- which would set back Magus spell progression a bit.

Not a perfect synergy.
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  #73  
Old Dec 18th, 2022, 11:26 PM
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I think, unless the feat was errata'ed, you could also take points in knowledge martial instead of it being on bab. It's not a huge problem though. I was taking it mainly for flavour, but I'm sure I can find something else.
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  #74  
Old Dec 18th, 2022, 11:33 PM
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@Acathala -- right, that helps with access.
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Old Dec 18th, 2022, 11:53 PM
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@HashtagBryn --

Yes, it is a bit of a crazy world.

Given the 2 obligatory NPC levels, you may want to take either Magical Knack (trait) or Magical Versatility (homebrew Feat) to recover lagging spellcaster levels. The Feat has the advantage that it doesn't block you from taking Pragmatic Activator, which many people consider essential for Occultists.

A level of Warrior would let him get to Heavy armor and Tower shields -- if you want even more tanking. That could let you dump Dex a bit and free up points elsewhere.

Occultists are feat-hungry, so a level of Commoner helps with that.

A level of Adept is iffy -- if you want to tank around (hurts BAB) -- but with the Magical Versatility feat it gives you a bit more ways to use spellcaster levels.

You can use the halfling/halfelf FCB for more mental focus.

Obviously the Feat Tax Fix is a huge win for an Occultist.

With Occultists, one usually is forced to be either combat oriented or full-caster like. But with Greater Stance, you could make one stack of feats thoroughly melee combat oriented, and another fully oriented toward getting the most out of your magic.

If you take an Extra Mental Focus feat and put it in a Greater Stance, the benefit of that focus will get tied to being in that Greater Stance.

Anyway -- I get dizzy looking at Occultists. So many options....

Last edited by CatCanCook; Dec 18th, 2022 at 11:54 PM.
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