[OOC] Out Of Character--TECHNICAL-- discussions

[NoldorForce]

The intent was to use the spell to allow Vintereth to be an item-crafting facilitator. Basically, someone else pays most of the costs; the materials are paid for through by-level character wealth (Fil's system of handwaving works well with this), the XP is paid for by using the spell, and the time is managed by using a Dedicated Wright (hence the comment on needing to have more than one). There's still the issue of required spells, but that's easily managed either by taking the spells themselves or by having another caster (we have a bunch) contribute the specific spell.

However, as a cost...hmm...

Keep in mind that a Dedicated Wright will only be working on one thing at a time. So, as a suggestion (*channels the power of salespeople*), it would probably be good to pay Vintereth beforehand to make such a construct that would then be devoted entirely to making equipment for you. It would also need space, but that won't be a problem after Vintereth makes a bigger version of her existing bag. The cost is approximately 2K gp and 1K xp...not a lot for our characters.

The flexible wealth system (mix and match practically at will as long as you stay within wealth-by-level) will also be useful for dealing with the fact that an item will generally be unavailable while a Dedicated Wright is working on it. An unfortunate consequence of this unavailability is that you'll need to wait until you know that you have downtime before enhancing armor or weapons if the item is a custom one, such as with Vintereth's armor. ("+1 Halfweight Twilight Glamered Mithral Definitive Harness")

Oh, and here's the web enhancement.

[DavidWL]

Fil,

You can see how LA buyoff works here:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/ra...djustments.htm

Best,
David

[Valeas]

Originally Posted by Fil kearney

3. You are starting further behind than everyone else in xp since you bought off your LA, instead of leaving it as one side of your 1st and 2nd level gestalt combo... If you are able, I'd recommend posting as often as I do to at least keep up if not get ahead.
I'd also recommend start plotting to fill in details on history to get boost xp. out of game.

acknowledged

Originally Posted by Fil kearney

4. Surreal has introduced some wonderful tension for later development... Sul obviously doesn't like Val yet, and probably doesn't realize the connection yet. I thinkt he Mournland will make that a fun discovery.

There is not only the tension with Sul. At the moment, all of the other characters are clearly collaborating to keep Valeas out of the loop. If he doesnt get included soon, I dont think he will react very well to that fact. Suls current plan to spy on him also doesnt help much to build a trusting relation.
But I cannot start using these problems in my posts until Valeas knows whats going on...

Originally Posted by Fil kearney

I'm gonna make valeas pay the piper for his feral template in the Mournland.... just so there are no surprises.
I am going to default to horse considering thecharacter, unless you have a particular animal in mind...
"IF you were any type of animal at all, Valeas, which would you be?"

Weel it obviously has to be some kind of predator. I think a black panther is the best fit: Stealthy, mobile and powerful.

Originally Posted by Fil kearney

I'll give you reason to wear that veil!

I have no idea what you plan there, but Im anxious to find out!

[NoldorForce]

Originally Posted by DavidWL

Fil,

You can see how LA buyoff works here:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/ra...djustments.htm

Best,
David

Along those lines, it would be good for everyone to note that the XP costs are equal to the amount required to level up from your previous level (this includes the LA from templates). They are commonly cited as static values on the CO Boards only because it is assumed that you'll be using LA buyoff as early as possible. Thus it currently costs each of us 10K XP for a +1 LA template, or 21K XP for a +2 LA template (or for two +1 LA templates).

[Surreal]

How do reducing LA and gestalt even work together? Does the LA need to be on both sides? Do you have to pay it twice?

[Fil kearney]

Considering the freebie nature of the share-a-wright options of Vin in item construciton, I will allow 1 item per dedicated wright per chapter. If you want a bunch of items being produced, get a bunch of wrights.
otherwise, you guys will have to find the appropirate people to provide the items for you, or other suitable metagaming logic to install into the game.

again, if you know what you want before hand, that makes it easier for me to bs into the story. If you figure stuff out on the fly, expect to do a bit of legwork and some gopherin to get it done.

The less you want to pay for something, the more gophering yer gonna do.

[Surreal]

I hereby suggest that all dedicated wrights thusly be renamed "gophers" :biggrin:

[zarzak]

Heheh, gophers.

Oh the choices to make ... lots of dedicated wrights or just one ... I think just one. I'll work it to death too. "Oh, you want a break this year ... sorry, no can do. Maybe I'll give you christmas off next year, though."

[Surreal]

I will probably be interested in having at least one gopher for future use.

Does anyone know of any items or spells that will help me get through mental wards? Is there anything in Weapons of Legacy?

I was thinking maybe of creating a legacy item that would eventually let me pierce such protections by treating them as spell resistance so I could make CL checks to break though. Maybe also increase my effective bloodline levels to continue with all my class abilities (since all their DC's cap fairly early and will be obsolete as we level up). Fil, does that sound plausible for the future?

[Fil kearney]

Originally Posted by Surreal

I will probably be interested in having at least one gopher for future use.

Does anyone know of any items or spells that will help me get through mental wards? Is there anything in Weapons of Legacy?

I was thinking maybe of creating a legacy item that would eventually let me pierce such protections by treating them as spell resistance so I could make CL checks to break though. Maybe also increase my effective bloodline levels to continue with all my class abilities (since all their DC's cap fairly early and will be obsolete as we level up). Fil, does that sound plausible for the future?

I believe it is fair to pay for your own gopher. You all will have the opportunity to purchase one in Sharn. If you plan on being potion and wand monkeys, then grab a bunch of them. Paying per cost on items and using yer own xp is a viable solution that more than makes up for the gophers in the long run.... remember: one item per gopher per chapter. If you do plan on bein a potion/wand monkey, it may be just easier to make faction with a supplier and use yer gopher for important doodads.

Just one step further in the pun, these homunculous typically look like the little critter from the moviie, "caddy shack". depending on the creator, variation in anthropomorph and coloring themes may occur.
You folks are more exposed to the "gophers", but Karrnath typically has "craft monkeys" which look like little spider monkeys with hammers and what not. (DM8)

As far as keeping Sul up to speed....
I think we can bs somethin like that into effect. If you can cdraw up some balanced stats, I think we can work it into future chapters.

[Fil kearney]

Oh hey... the article Kreggan offered is posted in DM Footnotes at the Wiki now.

It isn't too much help overall, but gves you a bit better idea what you are up against-- as well as some leads to follow up on.

Enjoy!

[NoldorForce]

Keep in mind that unless Fil rules otherwise, the homunculi will have to be under Vintereth's control, as it seems that only spells can be transferred by proxy with item creation - not the feats needed to make them. And there's also the hurdle of homunculi being bound to their creator with no decent way to transfer them.

That said, I wouldn't mind a houserule allowing transferring of homunculi, temporary or otherwise, as goes on with shield guardians. (Shield guardians are under the control of the owner of a keyed amulet.) It would make things quite a bit simpler - depending on the ease of transfer, Vintereth might need to control the Gophers only when telling them to make a magic item.

[zarzak]

Hey Fil, just a little flavor note, but if Celestine can find one could he get another 'craft animal', maybe some weird specialty kind. It wouldn't work better or faster or anything, just be more flavorful. I'm thinking spider. How freaky looking that would be. 8 little hammers and all ...

[Fil kearney]

good point, noldorforce... I was thinking along the lines of a character pays for one to work for him under whomever's control... the "possession" would be to whomever is paying the xp. Vin or whoever would be providing the direction with spells ad feats.
the gophers would be under Vin or whoever's direction (feat use and spells) but would be pulling off of the appropirate character's xp pool for enchantment.

a character couod have 10 dedicated gophers, handing it of to 10 different artificers to manage for him. He provides the gold for construction, the xp for enchantment, and the artificer would get a commission for overseeing the project and providing the spell knowledge.

A wealthy noble house could have a artificer or whatever on retainer to assure x number o gophers are being utilized each month.The artificer would only have to touch base with the gophers for a few moments each day, and go on with his own business.
Thi is an incredibly proitable arrangement for those with proven skills. Going rate could be something like 10gp per spell level per month. a high int 5th level wizard could devote a 3rd level slot, 3 2nd level slots, and 3 1st level slots and bag 180 gold pieces each month, and command 7 retained craft gophers.
5 different clients could be utilizing his services for low- magic items constatly, while he doevtes his time to research various spells and effects... and maintain an upper-class lifestyle.

Magewright spell lists are so common that they get paid middle class wages for their arcane abilities, but many attempt to get the teaching necesary to multiclass into wizard. Many save for years to afford workn part time and get access to the proper arcane resources to get into open- list spells. then they have to compete against all the other low level wizards attempting to win the attention of the affluent as crafters on retainers.
This is a matter of personal influence, and knowing the right people.

The only true success a lower or middle class magewright will have in this manner is if they researech something unique that the general population will be interested in having. gaining copyright of this effect is even MORE expensive... but those who have succeeded in the past have become fabulously wealthy, and are responsible for roughly 50% of the 1st-4th level arcane spells over the past 300 years.

clerics and adepts are capable of the same, but since the divine arts are inspiration, not perspiration, it's not as easily converted to a mercantile practice. The only thing close to mass production of this nature is monopolized by the sacred flame for their own internal consumption.
druids don't appreciate anything of such mass marketting appeal (naturally, hyuk hyuk)
individual divine entrepenuers aren't able to mass produce the effects well enough to attai true wealth... a noble may employ an adept personally as a retainer, but the effects can't just be duplicated and handed out... divine art is a matter of belief and faith, making it's point and click application self defeating.

artificers still rule the mercantile magic industry.
arcanists fill expensive niche markets.


Is any of this actually detailed in eberron books at all? If not, perhaps I should send an article to Dragon....?

[Fil kearney]

Originally Posted by zarzak

Hey Fil, just a little flavor note, but if Celestine can find one could he get another 'craft animal', maybe some weird specialty kind. It wouldn't work better or faster or anything, just be more flavorful. I'm thinking spider. How freaky looking that would be. 8 little hammers and all ...

yeah, of course. Gophers are just defaults since they are warm and cuddly. I'm sure you can find a goth artificer who'll happily do a custom job for you. I bet celestia and bytopia use little cherubs, and demonic aligned crafters have little imps.

cosmetics are just cosmetics-- David did a great job reminding me of that in his wiki.
If it does what it does, it doesn't matter what it looks like when it does it.

i didn't think spiders would fit celestine's image-- if he's ot a taste for that, start expanding on it. that's easy description filler/fluff

just virtually everywhere south and west o karnath is gophers. Karrnath have their monkeys... the mror hold dwarves have probably just the generic glob of clay model of wrights we're used to.