Open Invitation

[Silent Wayfarer]

Can't you get Naberius for one feat? I was considering that for my Exalted-spell spamming cleric in tsuyo's game, but Item Familiar (and free spell which becomes Restoration) won out.

And yeah, I was thinking of carefully staggering the LAs myself...

EDIT: Preliminary Build

Warblade 1 / Goliath LA +1
Warblade 2 / Feral LA +1
Warblade 3 / Titan Bloodline +1
Warblade 4 / Psychic Warrior 1
Warblade 5 / Psychic Warrior 2
Warblade 6 / Titan Bloodline +1
Warblade 7 / Fighter 1
Warblade 8 / Fighter 2
Warblade 9 / Swordsage 1
Crusader 1 / Swordsage 2

If flaws are allowed, I'd go for the usual meleeist's Shaky and Vulnerable.

Total feats:

Flaw 1 - Battle Jump
Flaw 2 - Wild Talent =(retrained to)=> Speed of Thought
Level 1 - Speed of Thought =(retrained to)=> Up The Walls
Bloodline - Power Attack
Level 3 - Item Familiar
Warblade 4 - Improved Initiative
Psywar 1 - Improved Bull Rush
Psywar 2 - Cleave
Level 6 - Leap Attack
Bloodline - Improved Sunder
Fighter 1 - Combat Brute
Fighter 2 - Shock Trooper
Level 9 - (free)
Warblade 9 - Unnerving Calm

Advancement would be something like

Warblade 10 / Warmind 1
Warblade 11 / Warmind 2
Warblade 12 / Warmind 3
Warblade 13 / Warmind 4
Warblade 14 / Warmind 5
Warblade 15 / Ardent 1 or Soul Eater 1 or Vassal of Bahamut 1
Warblade 16 / Blade Dancer 1
Warblade 17 / Blade Dancer 2
Warblade 18 / Blade Dancer 3
Crusader 2 / Blade Dancer 4

However, I am definitely doing something wrong here. My guy isn't being as mobile as he should be, and I have the feeling something is just off about the allocation of my feats, et al. Maybe I should just restart from scratch and see if I can coax it into working properly. As much as possible, I'd like this guy to be mobile, able to push people around (literally with Knockback, et al) and if at all possible, I want to work fear mechanics into him that can drop people to frightened, if not panicked. It should work to disperse mooks and for ego purposes. Will continue after a round of schoolwork.

[zarzak]

I love battle chasers! Whatever happened to it, it sort of fizzled out ... much to my sadness.

Artificer sounded too complicated, what with the strict wealth policy and all. The less complicated the better (weird to say that in a ridiculously CO game, heheh).

Strongheart vest is certainly better than losing a level to bind Naberius.

And warforged charger was introduced in MM3, not Race sof Eberron.

[NoldorForce]

You can get part of Naberius for one feat. But you have to take actual binder levels to get the portion that allows you to regenerate ability damage.

[Surreal]

Rash, if you were looking at the dungeon crasher stuff, take a look at the Warforged Charger build I put in the random gestalt section of the wiki (link). I only built it up to ECL 10 and didn't even include Dungeonscape stuff, but it wouldn't be hard to see where it fits in.

[Silent Wayfarer]

Surreal - that's a neat build. I'll definitely consider that - it's just that the high LA scared me off. =p A small problem I noticed is that WFJ only has 3/4 BAB - and one of the goals I had in mind for this guy was as high an attack bonus as possible...

More optimization objectives are a way to somehow include the Dodge / Mobility / Elusive Target feat tree in there, so I can become immune to Power Attack.

Dammit, now I'm torn between the Warforged Charger and Goliath. Hrm...

[zarzak]

Don't forget that Fil has some extra background info for warforged. If you can't decide based on mechanical reasons look at story reasons, and which you'd rather play as.

[Silent Wayfarer]

An idea I had was the shield bashing warforged guy using a tower shield and centering his career around creating cover for his mates and clearing masses of creatures out of the way whenever he did his slamfighting act...

Also, I think it is possible to get Weapon Supremacy by level 10 in this game - Warblade's class ability to count as fighter levels -2 for feats is separate from actually having 10 fighter levels, so a Warblade 10 / Fighter 10 would have 18 effective levels of fighter and a free feat slot on level 10 with which to take it. Note that Weapon Supremacy has no actual BAB req, and its predecessor, X Weapon mastery only has a BAB req of 8...

Might go well with a super shield specialist Dungeon Crasher, but this is just random babble.

[NoldorForce]

Gestalt rules might override that, considering the rules on shared class features.

[Silent Wayfarer]

My reasoning is:

0: Gestalt asks you to "pick two classes, including variant classes, but not two variants of the same classes". It is thus implied that you actually have access to both class levels; otherwise, there would be no need to add the "shared class features progress at the rate of faster class" clause below.

1. The warblade class feature explicitly states that (warblade level -2) stacks with fighter levels for determining fighter-only feats.

2. Gestalt rules explicitly state that "a gestalt character gains the class features of both classes".

3. Since being "X levels of fighter for gaining feats" is technically not being a class feature of being a fighter (it's a function of fighter level), this rules out the following clause that "Class features that two classes share (such as uncanny dodge) accrue at the rate of the faster class". Thus, the fighter has no direct equivalent to the warblade's ability, so the warblade ability should be allowed to stack.

Conclusion: A gestalt warblade 10 / fighter 10 can indeed take Weapon Supremacy at level 10. He would also have wasted a lot of feats for it (6 in total - WF, GWF,WS,GWS,MWM, WS), though there's no accounting for taste.

Mind you, I'm not seriously intending to use this for my character - this is just a mental exercise. I'd like to be right, of course, but if I'm wrong, I'll learn.

:biggrin:

[randomsyllable]

Originally Posted by NoldorForce

Nothing's wrong with a party of changelings, chameleons, or both. I was simply making a witty remark in response to the apparent trend.

I'd suggest going with the first build for two reasons:
-You're taking Chameleon levels earlier, which you'll generally want to do. (You can always use bait-and-switch to advance them later.)
-You've actually, well, finished it.

If Fil hadn't said no to AE casting...I might have gone with a mind witch (preferably verrik), just because using a Mind Blade as a constant melee touch attack is quite fun.

Both good points. I was actually contemplating the need to be epic-ready. Neither /Eternal Blade or Chameleon have official progressions. Would we just make one up or would I need to start adding different classes? (Epic EB//Cham progression could be fun - multiple Island of times!)

[NoldorForce]

There's a custom progression for Chameleon that I'd gotten OK'd a while ago. The thread containing it was pruned, but it's still mentioned in the archives here.

[Fil kearney]

Originally Posted by Silent Wayfarer

My reasoning is:

0: Gestalt asks you to "pick two classes, including variant classes, but not two variants of the same classes". It is thus implied that you actually have access to both class levels; otherwise, there would be no need to add the "shared class features progress at the rate of faster class" clause below.

1. The warblade class feature explicitly states that (warblade level -2) stacks with fighter levels for determining fighter-only feats.

2. Gestalt rules explicitly state that "a gestalt character gains the class features of both classes".

3. Since being "X levels of fighter for gaining feats" is technically not being a class feature of being a fighter (it's a function of fighter level), this rules out the following clause that "Class features that two classes share (such as uncanny dodge) accrue at the rate of the faster class". Thus, the fighter has no direct equivalent to the warblade's ability, so the warblade ability should be allowed to stack.

Conclusion: A gestalt warblade 10 / fighter 10 can indeed take Weapon Supremacy at level 10. He would also have wasted a lot of feats for it (6 in total - WF, GWF,WS,GWS,MWM, WS), though there's no accounting for taste.

Mind you, I'm not seriously intending to use this for my character - this is just a mental exercise. I'd like to be right, of course, but if I'm wrong, I'll learn.

:biggrin:

initator levels are like caster levels... if you take wiz10//figter5/mindbender5 you do not have effective caster level 15. it is 10.
we had the same issue when looking at davidwl's use of the eldritch disciple.
fighter 10//warblade10 is considered fighter 10 for sake of fighter levels... and only warblade 10 for initatior levels. the will not stack.

in gestalt, MOST things work that way. BAB, save progression, caster levels, initiator levels.


BTW... I sent PM's through this website for the applicants with the password to the wiki. I feel it is better to keep the password concealed... so if anyone is taking an interest in the game, they should be posting on this site regularly to build rapport, and make use of the wiki for builds because it's easier for us to comment.

New characters will start with 1 xp less than the lowest man on the list... that is raw xp before LA is taken into account. I think Noldor had the least at the end of the prologue... so in chapter 2, new guy will come in at whatever level he wants, maximum level 12. of course, xp can be burned for LA, tempaltes, magic gear, legacy stuf, spell component cost, etc.

[Silent Wayfarer]

I've decided on a Dungeon Crasher / Lancer hybrid.

Goliath Lancer (Major Titan Bloodline)

01 Warblade / Goliath
02 Warblade / Monk
03 Warblade / Titan
04 Warblade / Monk
05 Warblade / Cleric
06 Warblade / Psywar
07 Warblade / Psywar
08 Warblade / Titan
09 Warblade / Fighter
10 Crusader / Dungeon Crasher


(Level 1)

Flaw 1 - Stone Power (retrained to Battle Jump)
Flaw 2 - Improved Bull Rush
Level 1 - Knockback

(Level 2)
Major Titan Bloodline 2 - Power Attack
Cobra Strike Monk 1 - Dodge

(Level 3)
Level 3 - Item Familiar

(Level 4)
Cobra Strike Monk 2 - Mobility

(Level 5)
Warblade 5 - Iron Heart Aura
Cleric 1 - Cleave (from Orc domain)

(Level 6)
Level 6 - Elusive Target
Psywar 1 - Speed of Thought

(Level 7)
Psywar 2 - Up The Walls

(Level 8)
Major Titan Bloodline 8 - Improved Sunder

(Level 9)
Level 9 - Leap Attack
Fighter 1 - Shock Trooper
Warblade 9 - Improved Initiative

Right now, it's not very fast (only 50 ft/round), and I'm missing a crucial feat (Stormguard Warrior), but it'll get better by level 12. This guy controls the battlefield by smacking people far away and being able to go a lot of places, thanks to his pretty high speed and Jump checks. His warblade maneuvers make him a nasty bugger (though to be honest, Stormguard Warrior is the big enabler here) and his crusader maneuvers will focus mainly around healing or group benefit. Elusive Target is so that he can go toe to toe with mega power attackers and not die instantly despite his high HPs, and also because it forms the foundation to take Elocator (Scorn Earth > Up The Walls) and Blade Dancer (lots of land speed) later on.

Anyway, I've got some questions for my fellow players and the DM:

- Should I take the Quick trait for +10ft. move speed?
- Should I go for the various shield block maneuvers in Devoted Spirit (they're nifty, but I don't think the others really need the AC...)
- Should I go for Wolf Totem Barbarian and its mountain wild shape and Improved Trip, or is there something better I could do with the levels?

And these are for the DM:

- Regarding custom magic items, could I take an existing specific weapon and tweak it (specifically, I wanted to make the halberd of vaulting a heavy shield, or a guisarme, or a lance), as well as claim it as an Item Familiar?

- May I take an additional flaw, or failing that, take my existing 2 flaws later on in my build rather than at level 1? I can definitely fit Stormguard Warrior in with the first option; I'll have to drop Item Familiar for it in the second.

Alternately, I could drop Leap Attack and jam it in right now... that would cut my damage output in half, but also give me more chances to heal up the party and more chances to attack. What do you suggest?

[randomsyllable]

Thanks for the link to the epic prgression for chameleon. Some pretty fun stuff there.

[Fil kearney]

2 flaws max... take em when you want, but I like history for stuff.. so how did you get shaky, or murky eyed down the oad during your career? fun story there.

the vaulting function would be logical enough for any rigid weapon that has reach. a shield really clashes with the flavor of the vaulting idea though... in effort to not be competely cheesy, I'll say no shield.

Item familiar is fine. (its bee a while since I've seen item familiar stuff... can I have a write up on it from someone/an onlie link? I don't have the book.)