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  #106  
Old Apr 8th, 2011, 08:34 PM
Kevin Kevin is offline
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Quote:
I think you mean shield,
Changed.

Quote:
How is Xanna ahead of Usko if she cast a spell
She isn't. She's 20 feet ahead of Stephan, and 25 feet behind Usko.

Last edited by Kevin; Apr 8th, 2011 at 08:35 PM.
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  #107  
Old Apr 8th, 2011, 08:36 PM
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Theroniac Theroniac is offline
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Usko keeps running. He will attempt to spread caltrops behind him where the passage is flat and narrow by running with the sack open.

Last edited by Theroniac; Apr 8th, 2011 at 08:55 PM. Reason: reread posted turn and totally revised action.
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  #108  
Old Apr 8th, 2011, 11:09 PM
Kevin Kevin is offline
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Usko's sack of caltrops was left in the passageway where you first fought the kobolds. He has to drop it to wield his glaive, and never picked it up.

In any case, Stephan and Xanna are kind of happy that Usko isn't scattering caltrops. :-)
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  #109  
Old Apr 9th, 2011, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
Usko's sack of caltrops was left in the passageway where you first fought the kobolds. He has to drop it to wield his glaive, and never picked it up.

In any case, Stephan and Xanna are kind of happy that Usko isn't scattering caltrops. :-)
OOC: I do not remember that happening and can not find the post where it is stated that Usko dropped the sack of caltrops.
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  #110  
Old Apr 9th, 2011, 12:27 AM
Kevin Kevin is offline
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That's the difference between a sack and a backpack. A sack (assuiming it isn't a tiny bag that can be tied to your belt) has to be carried by hand, which means that it is automatically dropped during combat unless you have a hand free, which Usko, who wields a 2-handed weapon, does not.

Usko is, of course, welcome to go back for it.
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  #111  
Old Apr 9th, 2011, 06:36 AM
Lanorolen Lanorolen is offline
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FWIW, I remember the post where Kevin said you dropped it.
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  #112  
Old Apr 9th, 2011, 09:23 PM
Adam Adam is offline
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Xanna continues fleeing with the others.
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  #113  
Old Apr 9th, 2011, 10:11 PM
smirnov smirnov is offline
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Stephan will keep running, he will try to get out of line of sight as soon as possible, without detouring.

Once he is out of line of sight to the kobolds, he will channel healing on himself & anybody within range.

If the party reaches the entrance to the room with the hole, he will put two more oils down, so that he can spark them if there is pursuit, he can spark it.
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  #114  
Old Apr 9th, 2011, 11:31 PM
Lanorolen Lanorolen is offline
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So now that this debacle is winding down I have two comments...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
This battle was lost before it started. The only question is how many characters will live to fight another day.
That's sort of broken. Any DM can set up an encounter that the players can't win - the point is to craft encounters that are challenging but doable for your particular players, whoever those players are. And yes, I realize that we handled the entrance incorrectly. My bad for (a) not taking the time to go back and thoroughly reread all of the posts from a couple weeks earlier, and (b) trying to do a little bit of role playing, instead of just wargaming. But should the survival of the party really hinge solely on that? Because face it, you knew perfectly well when you set up that encounter that it was entirely unwinnable.

And Ron... Dude. You do realize that you insulted me for going around the corner one round - and then did exactly the same thing the next round, right? Despite the fact that, unlike me, you'd seen what was in there and knew what the odds of survival were. Whatever. And then Durgor, being the guy that he is, risked his life to haul Usko's butt out of there. Ultimately, he died saving Usko's life. He's a Ranger, that's what Rangers do ("I will never leave a fallen comrade to fall into the hands of the enemy" and all that). I have to admit that I was mightily disappointed that you didn't even try to return the favor and haul him out with you. Sure, it lessens your chances of surviving. But then again, he had just one round previously saved you from certain death. A little payback might have been in order. But that aside, what really amazed me was that you were going to drop caltrops in front of the surviving members of the team - and you went so far as to be pissed when Kevin wouldn't let you do it! You did see that Kevin asked for no evil characters, right?

Last edited by Lanorolen; Apr 9th, 2011 at 11:31 PM.
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  #115  
Old Apr 9th, 2011, 11:48 PM
smirnov smirnov is offline
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I think the point of the encounter was to see how well the party could retreat

Oh, and Stephan has caltrops -


If the party is pursued, if he can reach them & spill them without slowing down too much, he will do so, in a narrow passage

Last edited by smirnov; Apr 9th, 2011 at 11:49 PM.
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  #116  
Old Apr 9th, 2011, 11:59 PM
Lanorolen Lanorolen is offline
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Heroes are supposed to rescue children, not be forced to run away from the people who slaughter them.
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  #117  
Old Apr 10th, 2011, 08:23 AM
Kevin Kevin is offline
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Running at full speed, the party makes it back to the room where they entered, with Stephan spilling caltrops along the way. Kobold pursuit can be heard close behind--several times the party goes through a room, where kobold curiosity quickly turns to hostility as they reach for their weapns and join the pursuit.

With kobolds close behind, Xanna huffs it up the wall while Stephan channels postive energy [1] Xanna lowers a knotted rope, which Stephan and Usko scramble up, Stephan disappearing from view just as King Merlokrep and his guards enter the room. Stephan hears the king yell.

Jeekajak, p'zkat zu!


I think Jeekajak is the name of the shaman. And he just said "faster." I couldn't understand the middle word. "go," maybe?
Xanna reports.

------------
Does the party continue to flee at top speed, or does everyone stop now that they're up in the tunnel.?



[1] Stephan and Xanna bleed 4 more before he channels energy to heal everyone 7.
-------------------

OK, going of character here.


This battle was lost at post #8 of this thread. (A post which frankly took me by complete surprise.)

Had post #8 not happened, the party would've battled the king with 2 bloodscale kobolds and no buffing spellls or caltrops, then a few rounds later (right around the time the king likely goes down with 4 of you piling on him), the shaman shows up with 2 more bloodscale kobolds. Yes you get a swarm to deal with, but the shaman only had 20 hit points, so a couple of solid hits and he's down = the swarm goes away. A tough fight, but a fight the party should win. Let's say equivalent in difficulty to the Forgespurned you all destroyed before leveling up.

Oh, and no sacrificed child either.

By broadcasting your intentions and giving the kobolds a minute to prepare, it turned a doable fight into an impossible one.

Even with the kobolds prepared, the party could've saved all but one of the children: the kobolds were holed up in a defensive formation in the royal area (since they knew someone was coming to kill the king), and it would've been a couple of minutes before they poked their heads out. Once the party knows that the kobolds are too well prepared, instead of going in and getting mauled the party could've broken the deal, asked a kobold "civilian" where the children were being held. The party had enough time to go there, overpower the 1-2 guards, free the kids, and get out.

Last edited by Kevin; Apr 10th, 2011 at 08:26 AM.
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  #118  
Old Apr 10th, 2011, 12:26 PM
Lanorolen Lanorolen is offline
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So clearly Durgor misunderstood the intent behind the little ceremony, despite discussing it back and forth, and faced with a possible battle determined that it was better to intimidate our way through than to fight - especially since we'd been asked not to kill any extra kobolds. A failure that happened in large part because rather than waiting until I got home and thoroughly rereading the entire discussion, I posted quickly from work based on the synopsis that is in the OOC thread.

I don't want to beat on you too much, because for the most part (except for the rare occasions when your killer instinct takes over) I really enjoy your games. With that said... as a DM, a couple things you could have done.

1) Said "Are you sure you want to do that? Remember that your instructions were..." It breaks character, but avoids handing the party an unwinnable situation. Not necessarily the best option, but debatably better than risking a TPK.

2) Rolled with it, but cut down the forces available to our opponents, or better yet made the king and shaman level 3, so as to make the fight winnable.

3) Had a kobold "civilian" warn us before we went around the corner.

4) Relaxed the 10 word talking rule (or not imposed it in the first place), so that we could actually discuss what we wanted to do. With that rule in place, it is impossible to imagine a scenario in which we as players could actually have communicated enough to arrive at your alternate victory scenario. To be frank, I hate this rule. It entirely changes the nature of the game, and makes teamwork impossible. In fact, a large part of the reason Durgor reacted as he did in post #8 was that he wanted to make sure that Xanna didn't step up and act like a civilized human being - which would cause the kobolds to sense weakness and attack. I rushed my post because I didn't want Adam to put a post up and have that lead to a turn which didn't take my concerns into account.

5) At the very least, not allowed our opponent to slaughter a child. That forced Ron and I into a position where we had to choose between role-playing our characters, and playing an optimal tactical game. In general, you want to *encourage* your players to roleplay.

It is the job of the DM not only to give us a plausible story, but to craft the story so that we have at least a moderate chance of success. What's more, a small mistake on our part - especially at level 3 - should not eliminate that chance. If we do something really massively stupid, sure. But saying what we were told to say three rooms early? That shouldn't be the difference between victory and near-TPK.
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  #119  
Old Apr 10th, 2011, 03:04 PM
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Theroniac Theroniac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post

Stephan heals Usko with the wand and points as Usko wakes up.

GO!
Assuming that the rope got pulled up after Stephan, Usko will keep following the original plan (i.e. get the flock out of there) until Stephan counsels otherwise.
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  #120  
Old Apr 10th, 2011, 05:34 PM
Kevin Kevin is offline
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In game:

The party huffs it out of the underground chamber. A number of days later, they return to Kassen, with no children, but with a bit of loot and the skills gained from experience.

On the way there, Stephan identifies the gauntlet: It's called a "Grasp of Droskar." If you put your hand in, the gauntlet curls, and your fingers feel searing pain, as the fingers merge into a solid head. The character may strike with the weapon as both a light hammer and as a gautlet (or, if a monk, an "unarmed attack". The gauntlet counts as a +1 enchanted weapon, and is a unique alloy that counts as both mithril and adamantine. The wearer can also cast "stone shape" once/day, and gets a +2 enhancement bonus to strength. Removing the gauntlet requires a "remove curse" spell.


------------------


Regarding the warning, you encountered 3 dead kobolds in the room just outside the royal area with a kobold saying that the other had been taken to fight for the king. Then Usko peeked around the corner and saw an enormous phalanx of them. Exactly how much more warning did you need---a neon sign saying "children to the left; TPK to the right!"

I'll add that the the kobolds upstairs had strongly implied that a) They had a good chance of beating you if you did a frontal assault and b) the King was stronger than they were. Do the math.

Killing the child actually was in the module--more or less. As written, there's a kid tied up ready to be sacrificed in Jeekajak's room (which is just past the King's room.), and the party is supposed to sneak up and save the kid. Plus the shaman was wielding a +1 magic sacrificial dagger (A unique item, "heartripper blade") which turns into a +3 flame burst dagger when you cut out a humanoid's heart with it, so the kobolds had a tactical reason to do so.

The limited speech rule--and you can say more if you do a move action--is there to encourage planning before the encounter. None of the kobold encounters should've been a surprise.
---------

In any case, Kevin, it sounds like you're looking for a game in which the party relies on pure power to steamroll whatever it is facing, so there's no need for you to say anything more here.

With Adam also out. I think this game will go onto hiatus for a few weeks at minimum, while I if there are others who are interested in playing if Anton & Ron are interested in doing another adventure.

Last edited by Kevin; Apr 10th, 2011 at 06:52 PM.
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