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  #31  
Old Jul 19th, 2013, 08:12 PM
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Looking at the wiki, are you sure that I can't cast with a heavy shield? I only see that notation next to the tower shield.

Also, while distributing my stats, I setteled on Str:10 Dex:10 Con:14 Int:13 Wis:15 Cha:14. Joe, I noticed that your character Glaukos took a hit to Int. Would you recommend I do the same to min-max another stat? What is good for the goose...

Last edited by Pretzel; Jul 19th, 2013 at 08:20 PM. Reason: Added and consolidated questions
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  #32  
Old Jul 19th, 2013, 11:24 PM
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Casting, Free Hand, and Shields

Yep, I'm sure. The rules on casting and free hands and shields are not explained very well, so I had to do my research a couple months back when I had the same sort of questions.

Basically, you need one hand free to make the gestures to cast the spell. A light shield is easy enough to handle that you can free up a hand and cast; a heavy shield requires a hand's "full attention"–so you can't cast a spell (technically, a spell with a somatic component) while you have a weapon in one hand and a heavy shield in the other.

How this actually works, mechanically. For text references, scroll down from here.

Casting & Free HandIf you're wearing a light shield, you can switch your weapon to your shield hand as a free action, cast a spell with your now-free hand, and then switch the weapon back when you're done as a free action. This is a consequence (not clearly explained!) of the light shield text:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PRD
Shield, Light; Wooden or Steel: You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A light shield's weight lets you carry other items in that hand, although you cannot use weapons with it.
You can carry a weapon in that hand, but not use it. Switching hands is a free action. Ergo.

But that won't work with a heavy shield. Because:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PRD
Shield, Heavy; Wooden or Steel: You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A heavy shield is so heavy that you can't use your shield hand for anything else.
Note that you could also wield a two-handed weapon. Take a hand off, cast, re-grip.

A potential problem that I haven't got around to figuring out is how the Holy Symbol works into all this. Do you need two hands free if the spell requires a Divine Focus? I'm not sure. That seems a bit much, though. So I'll go ahead and say that a holy symbol prominently displayed, e.g. on your armor or your shield or around your neck, will be sufficient.


***

Stat array post forthcoming.
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  #33  
Old Jul 19th, 2013, 11:46 PM
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Stat Array

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretzel
Also, while distributing my stats, I setteled on Str:10 Dex:10 Con:14 Int:13 Wis:15 Cha:14. Joe, I noticed that your character Glaukos took a hit to Int. Would you recommend I do the same to min-max another stat? What is good for the goose...
You can definitely afford to min/max more. In particular, you can dump Int ruthlessly, since we've adopted the Fast Learner house-rule. You can especially dump Int if you'll be playing a Human-which you'll probably want to anyway for the bonus feat. Skill points are fun and nice to have, but you'll need those stat points for something else and you'll still get 3 skill points / level.

I like Tark's Big Holy Book of Clerical Optimization for advice on Clerics; though I don't agree with everything in it (especially the specific numbers he mentions in his discussion of stats), I find it helpful in orienting my thinking about the class. You'll definitely want to think about the Types of Cleric discussion and what exactly you want to be good at.

It sounds like you want to be either what he calls The Support Cleric or what he calls The Battle Cleric. Following his advice, here are some possible stat arrays. They run from more on the Support end to more on the Battle end. It's just a question of what you want to do.

Stat ArraysThe Support Cleric
Str 14 Dex 10 Con 17 Int 7 Wis 15 Cha 14
+2 racial boost has been added to Con
Put Lvl 4 boost to Con and Lvl 8 boost to Wis

The Battle/Support Cleric
Str 18 Dex 12 Con 14 Int 7 Wis 14 Cha 12
+2 racial boost has been added to Str
Put Lvl 4 and Lvl 8 boost to Con

The Über-Battle Cleric
Str 19 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 7 Wis 14 Cha 7
+2 racial boost has been added to Str
Put Lvl 4 boost to Str and Lvl 8 to Wis

How do those look to you?

(P.S. I built Glaukos when I was still very new to PF. I'd probably do him pretty differently now. 16 Wisdom? What was I thinking??? :-P)
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  #34  
Old Jul 20th, 2013, 08:07 AM
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On a different topic:

You'll notice in the statblock template and example statblock on the Drive that I included a "TACTICS" section. I'd like you each to fill that out with some general guidelines. For two reasons:

Why Tactics Section?(1) To help yourself in those rounds where you find yourself overcome by option-paralysis or I-don't-know-what-to-do. That happens sometimes in a game as complex as Pathfinder, and I find it helps me a lot with my own characters to have basic guidelines to fall back on. E.g., my current Wizard "closes into close range and casts ray of frost on the enemy his friends are attacking." Every round I know what to do and I'm doing something to contribute.

(2) More importantly, basic tactical guidelines will help me or one of your fellow-players run your character on weeks that you can't make it. My party last night was beaten down again and again and again and finally captured by an enemy who was 1 hit point away from going down ... because one of our players (our only real front-line fighter) couldn't make it at the last minute and we were down a man against the encounters.

P.S.
Joe Bitching About Poor TacticsAlso because two of the four players who were present were playing with very very very poor tactics. The Bard is an excellent class in Pathfinder, but we had a player who made the class live up to its old expectation of uselessness. On every turn she would heal someone with our cure light wounds wand. I got to learn in practice–painfully and at great length–what I had known in theory: that in-combat healing is a terrible tactical decision, and a huge resource-drain. If she had fired her bow just once or twice in that last combat we wouldn't have ended the night in chains. And if she had bothered to contribute to combat the rest of the time we might not have had such a rough go of it. Grrrrr! None of which I said to her or her husband [the other poor player], of course! I was very nice and polite. They're good folks and can usually muddle along while the rest of us crush the encounters. But down a man we needed everyone to pull their weight. And they couldn't.
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  #35  
Old Jul 20th, 2013, 02:41 PM
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Alex & I were talking this morning, he's going to roll with a Polearm Fighter, tripping and opportunity attacking. It looks like a fun build.

Erich, I suggest you learn enlarge person.
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  #36  
Old Jul 20th, 2013, 05:10 PM
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Tam Lin Faerguson, reach fighter, is up on the drive. Not exactly min-maxed, but he should be fun. Reach + combat reflexes + trip = battlefield control.
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Old Jul 20th, 2013, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex M View Post
Tam Lin Faerguson, reach fighter, is up on the drive. Not exactly min-maxed, but he should be fun. Reach + combat reflexes + trip = battlefield control.
That is a bitchin' build, Alex. I like to roll non-traditional combat characters and long range fighters so color me jealous.
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  #38  
Old Jul 20th, 2013, 09:34 PM
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Thanks! I'm looking forward to seeing how he works out. I'm a little worried that there are diminishing returns investing so much into the trip line (which won't work against swarms, huge creatures, creatures with more than 2 legs, creatures with no legs, etc.), but since David will supply the straight tank I thought it would be nice to offer a little counterpoint. Hopefully I can use Tam Lin's threat range to help manage the battlefield for you & David.
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  #39  
Old Jul 21st, 2013, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex M View Post
Thanks! I'm looking forward to seeing how he works out. I'm a little worried that there are diminishing returns investing so much into the trip line (which won't work against swarms, huge creatures, creatures with more than 2 legs, creatures with no legs, etc.), but since David will supply the straight tank I thought it would be nice to offer a little counterpoint. Hopefully I can use Tam Lin's threat range to help manage the battlefield for you & David.
You'll always have humanoids, I'm sure. In any case this dude should be a lot of fun for the level range we'll be playing in for quite a while.

***

I played most of Masks of the Living God today. It's the sequel to Crypt of the Everflame. It might be a bit of an odd fit for a VTT environment. (1) It's loooong; (2) the first 3/4 are all sandbox RP problem solving and the last little bit is combat. So it would work out to one or two sessions not "doing" anything. That stretch was a lot of fun in-person and with the right group (we were all pretty into it and fed off each other's characters), but the atmosphere is probably more difficult to maintain via Google Hangout.

So we may or may not want to continue the series after Everflame–the two sequels are each a step down in quality, too, I hear (though I haven't played Everflame so can't compare it to Masks).

But we should do Everflame. It's a classic dungeon-crawl and it's supposed to be good. It'll take us a few sessions to complete and we can then assess how it's working for us and what sort of thing we want to do going forward.

Looking forward to our debut session!
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  #40  
Old Jul 21st, 2013, 01:49 PM
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Sounds good.

John, David, Erich, how are yall's characters coming? Need any help?
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  #41  
Old Jul 22nd, 2013, 07:44 PM
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I am working through it slowly. My character sheet is a work in progress and can be found here. I have also started to fill out the stat block on Drive. I have gotten to the Domains and stopped because I need to do some more research. Casters are so... technical.
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Old Jul 22nd, 2013, 07:55 PM
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Hm. It looks like the character sheet isn't set to be publicly viewable, and I don't see your statblock on the drive :-( Agree on casters - lots of fiddly details. But once you get a good tactical approach they clearly win the game. Have you checked out any optimization guides? I've found those to be pretty helpful in sorting through the plentiful options.

I'm excited to get going!

Last edited by Alex M; Jul 22nd, 2013 at 07:55 PM. Reason: typo
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  #43  
Old Jul 22nd, 2013, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretzel View Post
I am working through it slowly. My character sheet is a work in progress and can be found here. I have also started to fill out the stat block on Drive. I have gotten to the Domains and stopped because I need to do some more research. Casters are so... technical.
Excellent. Can't view the character sheet yet; you'll need to set the permissions to public (click the "edit" link to the right of the sheet, it's at the top).

Domains are tough. The Cleric guide linked in the opening post does a good job running down domains, and the guide I linked just a bit back has recommendations based on build type.

For gods, you might also consider Gorum, god of battle. He's got a good set of domains (Chaos, Destruction, Glory, Strength, War) and his favored weapon is the Greatsword. The free proficiency would be nice if you wanted to go with a CLERIC SMASH build.
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  #44  
Old Jul 23rd, 2013, 03:09 AM
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Quick update..

As for pole fighters, check out the http://www.pathfinderdb.com/characte...rt-haft-combat Short Hart feat once you get bab 3 (bad link cause Im posting from phone). It's hacks for reach fighters nothing can run up to or away from you without provoking attack of opportunity as you threaten both squares...

I haven't started on my character yet, but don't worry, I've made enough Pathfinder chars it won't be an issue. Currently I'm thinking an ex-circus sorcerer who can fill the diplomatic role for convincing people to give us money and yes, enlarge person is always sexy with a melee in the group.

Not so sure about the thurge, but we'll see how it goes
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Old Jul 23rd, 2013, 03:11 AM
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Also I can't get the stat block to copy.. could someone send it by email to me please?
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