[Mechanics] Magic

[Digorig]

There have been several good questions about Magic. Let me try and explain it here in more detail:

Vikings (two PC's and any NPC's) do not like or use Magic. Their "god" is their weapon, their strength which comes from their ancestors. Thus, limited DIVINE magic (such as healing) is tollerated, but no Arcane Magic ever is.

Any non-vikings (PC's and NPC) can use magic. They can attack with it, distract enemies and do healing. The caveat is that the viking don't like it. If you have your own target they they would be OK, but NOT if you attack their target with magic.

How will a Viking react if someone does use magic on them or their opponent? The two PC's will have some liberty with that. NPC's may not be so forgiving. They may simply get angry, or they might attack the caster.

AoE spells that happen to include a Viking (not centered on them) would also be somewhat tolerated. So would healing on them, provided its not overboard. A Viking down a few, even half their HP's would be much angrier at healing than one about to die.

Now on the other side of this, since the Vikings shun magic, you might be able to get away with (bluff) doing something that is not necessary obvious. The Vikings (PC and NPC) have NO Knowledge: Arcane, No Detect Magic and NO Spellcraft ability.

If you choose this option, it will be an opposed check, even PC vs. PC. I will roll the Bluff vs Sense Motive (or you can in a secret tag) and let you know what happens.

I hope this helps. Please feel free to ask any questions here.

[JoeNotJoey]

Does a Viking treat every fight like a duel, one vs one? And if yes, what if there are fewer enemies than PC's or if the whole group is fighting a boss? In the case of an intrusion would they take more offence from magic than another fighter?

[Digorig]

Vikings don't really duel at all, except to settle an argument. Most are used to groups vs groups, and they may only spend a few seconds on a target before moving to another.

They would likely have NO Problem with someone else Melee (or ranged) attacking their target. After all, a fight is a free for all, hack, slash, kill, kill, kill.

If there was only one target (a boss) then it would be situation. If they are fighting for honor or revenge, they would likely rather go it alone-ish (except other fighters).

Some of this will depend on the Group Dynamics. How well the 5 selected PC's interact and role play will have a lot to do with the outcomes of these situations.

DiG

[JoeNotJoey]

I assume that magic items will be rarer and generally less potent, will this affect the prices? Will they even be sold in the way we are accustomed to?

Is it dangerous to let non-ally vikings know you use magic?

Even if it is safe, I assume that they would not see you as a less of a man if you use it in a fight?

How ignorant of magic are they? Are we talking dirt-peasant? They have heard long retold stories of magic but that is it. Or have they seen it but never actively sought it? Or some third option?

Are they superstitious? I've never net a sailor who wasn't.

I have been reading up on pathfinder cantrips recently and it reopened the can of worms that is prestidigitation. I don't want to powergame with a lvl 0 spell, but the situational usefulness of these tricks is so vast and ambiguous that it is sometimes hard to tell where the spirit of the spell ends. Is it creative or are you being a munchkin? As a rule if I have any doubt that I can do it with prestidigitation, I probably can't. If I can think of no reason it couldn't work I will probably still check.

Example Question(which I really would like answered): I discovered the spell Spark. My interpretation it that it magically starts a fire, does so at a distance, and very quickly. Prestidigitation cannot duplicate any spell. Would I still be able to produce a shower of sparks for children or even one intended to start a fire, but that would require the attention of any other mundane fire starting method.

[Darkling]

As a rule of thumb, prestidigitation cannot be used to replicate any other spell or spell ability, thus cannot be used to any real effect in combat.

I do figure the vikings have their own prejudices against magic, but I suppose that's the price you pay for perverting reality!

[JoeNotJoey]

Originally Posted by Darkling

As a rule of thumb, prestidigitation cannot be used to replicate any other spell or spell ability, thus cannot be used to any real effect in combat.

I agree entirely, but what I am talking about would be the equivalent of using steel and flint(not terribly combat effective). The real question here is whether the spell can. Before I found the spell spark I would have said yes instantly, but now it depends more on the spell was meant. I take it that is magically starts a fire instead of the "might start a fire if the tender is dry and you blow on it and whatnot..." of regular spark. And I have always done little spark showers for preform(prestidigitation) as part of the "preform minor tricks", is that now against the rules? Anyways, we have to be careful. Many a thread have been pulled off topic by these questions.

[Digorig]

Originally Posted by JoeNotJoey

I assume that magic items will be rarer and generally less potent, will this affect the prices? Will they even be sold in the way we are accustomed to?

If you are in a Viking controlled area, there would be fewer available at higher costs.

In non-Viking lands, it should me more typical both in quantity and cost.

Originally Posted by JoeNotJoey

Is it dangerous to let non-ally Vikings know you use magic?

No. But it may not be the best opening line, either.

Originally Posted by JoeNotJoey

Even if it is safe, I assume that they would not see you as a less of a man if you use it in a fight?

Vikings are Vikings. They are concerned with Viking things. Most could care less if people use magic or not.

Originally Posted by JoeNotJoey

How ignorant of magic are they? Are we talking dirt-peasant? They have heard long retold stories of magic but that is it. Or have they seen it but never actively sought it? Or some third option?

Vikings are actually rather intelligent, especially in matters of travel and battle. What they lack is arcane knowledge. They may notice Magic, but may not care if it was not directed at them, or their enemy. They could not identify one spell form another.

Originally Posted by JoeNotJoey

Are they superstitious? I've never net a sailor who wasn't.

Yes! Very much so. The Afterlife, strength from ancestors and Animal spirist.

Originally Posted by JoeNotJoey

I have been reading up on pathfinder cantrips recently and it reopened the can of worms that is prestidigitation. I don't want to powergame with a lvl 0 spell, but the situational usefulness of these tricks is so vast and ambiguous that it is sometimes hard to tell where the spirit of the spell ends. Is it creative or are you being a munchkin? As a rule if I have any doubt that I can do it with prestidigitation, I probably can't. If I can think of no reason it couldn't work I will probably still check.

Example Question(which I really would like answered): I discovered the spell Spark. My interpretation it that it magically starts a fire, does so at a distance, and very quickly. Prestidigitation cannot duplicate any spell. Would I still be able to produce a shower of sparks for children or even one intended to start a fire, but that would require the attention of any other mundane fire starting method.

Prestidigitation is an amazing spell, and one of my favorites. Use is just as the book says (and Dark said above) and with attention to:

• simple magical effects
• can slowly lift 1 pound of material
• color, clean, or soil items in a 1-foot cube
• chill, warm, or flavor 1 pound of nonliving material
• cannot deal damage
• Prestidigitation can create small objects
• extremely fragile, and they cannot be used as tools, weapons, or spell components.
• Cannot duplicate any other spell effects

I have used it/seen it used to make a fake banana with smell and distract an ape, to move sand onto a lobster and distract it in combat and other such things.

Can you make sparks with it? Sure. They won’t look like the sparks spell, and would not start a fire. They could however be warm and smell like charcoal.