[OOC] Crew Quarters

[Shinjiku]

Yeah Yuul. From my experience from in skyrim, shouts are very solid abilities. So what I might do is make them cost a bit more but be fairly potent. I agree with that Eris. Again, everything looks pretty solid. Again, thanks Kaji. So, I propose that we get the game going by the weekend. So, I would like everyone to boil down their concerns on bp and post them so we can get going.

[Eris Renfield]

I'm sorry for in advance for any delay in posting. I'm dealing with some major family drama and not feeling well.

[Kaji]

With my Batman character, as I've proposed in my previous post, I will spend 3 BP on his Batsuit and 2 BP on his Utility Belt.

Theodore Truscott - the new Dark Knight After Nicholas Anderson (now the Night Owl) assassinated his old master, the previous Batman, he took away all the equipment he could and destroyed what was left in the Bat Cave that he could not bring with him. Not all is lost, however, as Theodore had with him two of his late master's possessions when the disaster happened - earlier versions of the Batsuit and the Utility Belt. He was studying the engineering of these prototypes, which were made by the earliest Dark Knights and their associates. As such, they lack the full functionality of their latest models. Theodore simply had to make the best use of them and seek to, over time, work with them to improve their capability.

The Batsuit This is made of hardened Kevlar plates on a titanium-dipped fibre, broken into multiple pieces of armour over a flexible bodysuit for mobility. Underneath this is a layer of undersuit with built-in temperature and moisture regulators designed to keep the wearer comfortable. The cowl is made of a graphite material with Kevlar lining and acts as a protective helmet. The cape is made of a memory cloth that is flexible in its normal state but becomes semi-rigid when an electric current is passed through it from the microcircuits in the left glove, allowing the wearer to glide in the air. The protective properties of the Batsuit provide its wearer an additional +2 to the armour bonus to AC (3 RP = 1.5 BP). The cape allows the wearer to take no damage from falling. While in midair, the wearer can move up to 5 feet in any horizontal direction for every 1 foot he falls, at a speed of 60 feet per round. The wearer cannot gain height with the wing-like cape alone; it merely coasts in other directions as it falls. If subjected to a strong wind or any other effect that causes the wearer to rise, he can take advantage of the updraft to increase the distance he can glide (3 RP = 1.5 BP). Future potential improvements to the Batsuit (all based on PF's race creation guide):   Enhanced temperature regulation so the wearer can withstand extreme heat or cold, chemical resilience or electrical non-conductivity - Energy Resistance 5 against fire, cold, acid or electricity (1 RP = 0.5 BP for each type) Improved Resistance - increasing resistance to one energy type to 10 (2 RP = 1 BP) Armour hardening - DR 5/adamantine (4 RP = 2 BP), can be increased to DR 10/adamantine for an additional 2 RP (= 1 BP) Improvement to the black, non-reflective latex material that can dampen the wearer's heat signature - camourflage in dark environments, granting a +4 bonus to Stealth checks (1 RP = 0.5 BP, or 1 BP for +8 Stealth in the dark) Silent joints and soles - reduce the penalty for using Stealth while moving and for sniping by 5 (2 RP = 1 BP) Automatic release of wound healing medical substance upon injury - Fast Healing 1 (6 RP = 3 BP) Enhanced leg joint mechanism to improve movement - 10 ft bonus to base speed (1 RP = 0.5 BP, propose to increase it to 1 BP) Claws and spikes for climbing - granting climb speed of 20 ft with the normal +8 bonus to climb checks (2 RP = 1 BP) Mobile propulsion system to allow flight with the wing-like cape - fly speed of 30 ft with clumsy maneuverability (2 RP = 1 BP, cost reduce to reflect existing gliding wings ability), 2 RP (1 BP) for each increment of +10 ft and one higher step of maneuverability

Utility Belt This is a specialised belt worn by the Dark Knight to equip his crime-fighting gear. It is a modified climbing harness with magnetised impact-resistant pouches. Canisters are attached to the belt at ergonomic poitns for ease of reach. The Utility Belt is treated as a wondrous item that, together with Batman's wealth system, replaces the adventuring gear of a typical Pathfinder character. Instead of tracking Batman's wealth in gp, the Utility Belt functions as if the wearer can retrieve any item up to a Purchase DC (according to D20 Modern's system). Giving up his starting gold and spending 2 BP, Theodore is able to pull out from the belt any item of DC 20 or lower. Items retrieved this way can be used only by the wearer. For example, whilst Batman can pull out nightvision goggles for himself to see in darkness he cannot give out a pair to each of his allies. There is no specified limit to how many of one type of item can be retrieved from the Utility Belt, but it must be reasonable. For example, taking out zip-ties to handcuff a dozen criminals is fair usage, but generating thousands of them for the party to sell for gold is not. In all cases, the DMs have the final say on what is acceptable. For the purpose of calculating Purchase DC in order to see whether an item can be retrieved out of the Utility Belt, treat any Pathfinder item as having Purchase DC equal to the gp cost divided by 5. (EDIT: I originally wrote 10 as the dividing factor, but found that to be too powerful especially with the alchemical items.) Magical items cannot be retrieved from the Utility Belt. Consistent to the non-killing practice of all Batmans and also Theodore's vows, the belt cannot provide any weapons designed to kill, including firearms and other weapons that deal lethal damage. Upon earning more BP, each additional 1 BP spent on improving the Utility Belt increases the Purchase DC threshold by 2. To provide an idea of what useful gear is available at the various DC levels:   DC 20: night vision goggles, deluxe mechanical tool kit, medical kit, binoculars, cameras, lockpicks DC 22: deluxe electrical tool kit, desktop computer DC 24: laptop computer, dirt bike (motorcycle) DC 26: economy sedan (vehicle) DC 28: mid-size wagon (vehicle) ... DC 34: Hummer (SUV) ... DC 40: helicopter (aircraft) With the vehicles and aircraft, of course it's not like Batman can pull them out out of his belt. It is assumed that he works on building them and adding new functions over time. With a level higher than the base DC for the vehicle or aircraft, it may be summoned with a remote control device (much like how a Paladin conjures his mount).

[dbaque]

@Shinjiku: If we are using the 2RP=1BP approach, then my fast healing question is resolved at costing 3BP. My only other immediate BP question was to weigh in on GL's assessing increased uses of Hateful Retort at 3BP for 1/day->3+Wis/day. If so, I'll probably want to save my BP to buy that later. Eventually, I'll be interested in the price of a Rage Power (1 or 2 BP as with a feat?), but that's for much later.

[Kaji]

Originally Posted by dbaque

@Shinjiku: If we are using the 2RP=1BP approach, then my fast healing question is resolved at costing 3BP. My only other immediate BP question was to weigh in on GL's assessing increased uses of Hateful Retort at 3BP for 1/day->3+Wis/day. If so, I'll probably want to save my BP to buy that later. Eventually, I'll be interested in the price of a Rage Power (1 or 2 BP as with a feat?), but that's for much later.

With extra Hateful Retort uses, perhaps split it into two feat-equivalents? So 2 BP to gain 3 extra uses per day. Then another 1 or 2 BP to gain extra uses per day equal to your Wisdom modifier.

Gaining an extra Rage Power is indeed worth a feat, so yes that'd be 2 BP.

[TucksRavin]

I've pmed back and forth with GL and this is the rough breakdown:

Aeolus has trained with the Roman Army so I figured he has tower-shield proficiency, at 2 BP (1 feat)

Then Assassin's Creed perks:

Leap of Faith ability acts as Feather-Fall 1BP

Blending gives +4 to Stealth in crowds, GL ruled that as 1 BP

Finally, for the superb climbing and Acrobatics skills of the assassins, 1 BP was spent to give them each a small boost


I intend to spend points later on abilities to mimic Eagle-Vision, then see if I can grab death attack.

Anywhere I messed up?

[GreenLantern]

And Kaji, have you looked at the Experimental Gunsmith for ideas for your grappling gun?

And no worries Eris. Life has an awful habit with getting in the way of things. I had to drop out of games that I just got into since my posting rate wasn't up to par due to somethings distracting me in RL. So do not worry. Again, this game is design for those who are pretty busy. I do not expect a post every day. Just one or two a week is perfectly fine with me.

But yes, eventually we will have a thread up for BP concerns and discussions. Also I will put a thread for anybody having to be absent from the game awhile in order to deal with RL situations that hinder them from posting. I figure it would be easier to have a place for that than to scan the whole OOC thread and whatnot. If there are any objections to these thread, please feel free to voice your concerns.

[Kaji]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

And Kaji, have you looked at the Experimental Gunsmith for ideas for your grappling gun?

Thanks for that, GL! I think the Grapple Launcher Innovation by itself has value close to one feat. Using the D20 Modern system, perhaps the Dark Knight can modify a grenade launcher (Purchase DC 14) to have it fire a grappling hook with a trailing rope, but with only 50% of the range increment. The one feat's worth of enhancement would cost 2 BP, or +4 Purchase DC, on a standalone basis. Because it is tied to the Utility Belt, I'd double the Purchase DC increase (so +8), making the final DC 22.

The above is to purchase everything only. You may want to require a Craft(mechanical) check as if the character is building a moderate device from scratch, with DC 20 and 12 hours of work.

What do you think?

[GreenLantern]

That sounds good to me. I will probably have it where you will need to roll for a craft check once you can get the make shift batcave underway. Though I am toying with giving it misfire chance at least for the time being. If we go down that route, I may lower the cost. Though of course down the road you can improve your gadgets and get more high power equipment. Gadgets won't be the only thing you could possibly get. Have you played Arkham City? In the story DLC, Robin has a staff that can extend into a shield. You maybe Batman but doesn't mean you can't get inspiration for gadgets or whatnot from past Robins.

[Kaji]

Originally Posted by TucksRavin

I've pmed back and forth with GL and this is the rough breakdown:

Aeolus has trained with the Roman Army so I figured he has tower-shield proficiency, at 2 BP (1 feat)

Then Assassin's Creed perks:

Leap of Faith ability acts as Feather-Fall 1BP

Blending gives +4 to Stealth in crowds, GL ruled that as 1 BP

Finally, for the superb climbing and Acrobatics skills of the assassins, 1 BP was spent to give them each a small boost


I intend to spend points later on abilities to mimic Eagle-Vision, then see if I can grab death attack.

Anywhere I messed up?

Personally I would only make something equate to a feat if it can turn the tide of battle in some decisive manner. I think most people would agree that armour and shielf proficiency feats are the weakest of feats. Because using the tower shield would be so intimately intrinsic to Aeolus's identity as a Roman soldier that it should be more like the

Choose up to two weapons, or one weapon and a racial weapon group. When choosing a racial weapon group, you must choose a group that includes the same name as one of your subtypes. Members of this race are proficient with those weapons. For the purposes of weapon familiarity, all bows are considered one weapon.

Weapon Familiarity (1 RP) racial trait in Pathfinder's Creating New Races (CNR) guide. If you are spending 1 whole BP (= 2 RP) on it, it should come with some small benefit (e.g. reduction in Armour Penalty and increase of Max Dex). If you are spending 2 BP, the benefit should be more significant, say losing the -2 penalty to attack roll while using a tower shield?

Leap of Faith sounds like it is in effect a Feather Fall spell-like ability at will. A 1st-level spell means 1 RP, double that to make it at-will = 2 RP = 1 BP. So that sounds right.

Re Blending, refer to the Camouflage (1 RP) racial trait from the CNR: +4 Stealth when in a terrain type (e.g. urban). You can normally find a crowd only in an urban environment anyway, so it is definitely more difficult to find a chance to benefit from Blending than the standard Camouflage. To spend 1 BP (= 2 RP), I'd suggest either make it a +8 Stealth bonus in any urban terrain (so you don't need a crowd), or +16 in a crowd.

1 BP (= 2 RP) can indeed translate to a small boost (+1 skill check bonus) to two skills such as Climb and Acrobatics.

With Eagle Vision, perhaps each 1 BP gives +1 to Perception (visual only), Survival (tracking only) and Sense Motive. Then if you later want to make it a True Seeing spell-like ability at will it should cost 5 or 6 BP.

Of course, all these are subject to GL and Shinjiku's final decision.

[Kaji]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

That sounds good to me. I will probably have it where you will need to roll for a craft check once you can get the make shift batcave underway. Though I am toying with giving it misfire chance at least for the time being. If we go down that route, I may lower the cost. Though of course down the road you can improve your gadgets and get more high power equipment. Gadgets won't be the only thing you could possibly get. Have you played Arkham City? In the story DLC, Robin has a staff that can extend into a shield. You maybe Batman but doesn't mean you can't get inspiration for gadgets or whatnot from past Robins.

Perhaps have Craft check assume a comfortable place to work in (still requiring the appropriate tool kit). Without that, so making things e.g. while travelling, would incur a penalty of say -2. Any workshop that is well equipped may provide a +2 circumstance bonus? Perhaps a Batcave could be so exceptionally well-equipped that it doubles the bonus to +4. (Too bad this Batman doesn't have Lucius Fox, or Wayne Enterprise for that matter...)

I certainly don't mind the idea of a lowered cost for the risk of misfiring, because it means I can get access to the gadget sooner. Then as I spend more BP into increasing the Purchase DC the gadget can be enhanced to eliminate the misfiring chance.

My initial thoughts is to have this Batman resemble Christopher Nolan's one, so the shield idea can manifest as a feature of the Batsuit - metal gauntlets with scallops on the forearms, providing some shield bonus to AC that doesn't interfere with his martial maneuvers.

I've also been thinking about the Batarang. The closest weapon in Pathfinder is, I think, the Chakram - just change it to deal only nonlethal damage. (Not the Boomerang, because the Batarang does not return to the thrower.) Your thoughts?

[Shinjiku]

First. No worries Eris. Trust me, I completely understand. Tucks, that sounds quite doable. I really want you to have fast healing. I might need to watch the show again only because i'm trying really hard to remember the show and the two major things that pop out for me would be 1 fast healing and 2 rage. How about throw anything? I seem to remember that. anyway, youre on the right track kaji. that seems just fine with me. In fact, i've custom made weapons in normal pf games so that isn't a problem at all. thinking about the batarang though, I might even say that when using that weapon you get bonuses to called shots. I think that would be a better thing for a weapon instead of an all around ability. At least for the time being. What do you think?

[dbaque]

Shinjiku, I'm fine with letting my raging start at L6 from the anger inquisition. As for throwing his blades, I'm good with either the Throw Anything feat (2BP?) or some custom throwable shortswords (not really planning to throw any other weapons).

[TucksRavin]

Originally Posted by Kaji

Personally I would only make something equate to a feat if it can turn the tide of battle in some decisive manner. I think most people would agree that armour and shielf proficiency feats are the weakest of feats. Because using the tower shield would be so intimately intrinsic to Aeolus's identity as a Roman soldier that it should be more like the (1 RP) racial trait in Pathfinder's Creating New Races (CNR) guide. If you are spending 1 whole BP (= 2 RP) on it, it should come with some small benefit (e.g. reduction in Armour Penalty and increase of Max Dex). If you are spending 2 BP, the benefit should be more significant, say losing the -2 penalty to attack roll while using a tower shield?

Re Blending, refer to the Camouflage (1 RP) racial trait from the CNR: +4 Stealth when in a terrain type (e.g. urban). You can normally find a crowd only in an urban environment anyway, so it is definitely more difficult to find a chance to benefit from Blending than the standard Camouflage. To spend 1 BP (= 2 RP), I'd suggest either make it a +8 Stealth bonus in any urban terrain (so you don't need a crowd), or +16 in a crowd.

1 BP (= 2 RP) can indeed translate to a small boost (+1 skill check bonus) to two skills such as Climb and Acrobatics.

Assuming GL and Shin are fine with 1 BP for the Tower Shield bit.

I also found a spell from the race guide that fits pretty well: Urban Grace
If I take no benefits with Tower Shield proficiency, can I have this as an always on, or use it as a swift action?
That's 1BP plus change for the no benefit proficiency.

For the Camo, +8 bonus in urban terrain?



Arbitration, GL Shin?

[Yuul]

Sorry for my delay, still getting my character finalized for a high level game I got into.

But did we work out BP cost for my shouts? Giving the reduced ranges for most of them I mentioned?