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  #31  
Old Aug 28th, 2014, 03:06 PM
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I agree with you on the "it's meant to" part, but you have to look at what is possible. If it is even possible to misuse those, you assume that is what will be done.

This IS taking into account the limit for powerpoints per power used, but can also be overchanneled.
Everything is taken into account as it is actual game play experience on multiple occasions.

Psionics
Example 1: Bound and Gagged
Mage- unless he has the correct metamagic feats and/or prepared spells, he is screwed.
Psion- full access to powers

Example 2: Frozen (actual in-game occurrence)
Mage- useless and dying
Psion- full access to powers, can heal self, and protected from enemy by ice

Example 3: Power flexibility 1
Mage- minimal (wizard) to moderate (sorcerer)
Psion- extreme, not in PP terms, but selection terms. Powers have a single power for multiple energy options, spells rarely do. This takes the Psion from being a liability (nothing that can damage a creature) to a significant advantage (+50% damage). A big swing mage's done have. Additionally, one spell for attributes vs. six.

Example 4: Power Flexibility 4
Mage- spell types, arcane and divine are different.
Psion- powers cover full range, including excellent healing.

Example 5: Full armor
Can get super armor they are not trained in and still cast with no penalty

Example 6: Covert (non combat aspect)
Mage- needs multiple metamagic feats, requiring preparation.
Psion- can easily suppress signs, making easy manipulation without people knowing.

Example 7: Multiple powers
Psion- with a few feats, their crystal can maintain a spell for them.
..subxample: There was a power I can't remember that allowed damage for concentration up to 1 rnd/level. The Psion can hand it off to the psicrystal for other powers, effectively having 2 powers per round (or 2x level dice in damage)

Example 8: Increasing power
Mage- spells are set, DC based on spell level and spell based on level
Psion- nearly all spells can be augmented, also increasing the DC by default.
While I agree with this method more than how spells are done, it also makes then more flexible and thus more powerful.

Everything is taken into account, and is from actual play. The players of the psions were the most effective by a massive degree in the vast majority of situations. This even happened when the player was not doing it on purpose, so easily happens.

-me
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  #32  
Old Aug 28th, 2014, 05:37 PM
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So for the Artificer, going down:
  • Bound and Gagged: He's as screwed as the mage. Probably more so, since whoever tied him likely took his stuff.
  • Frozen: Still same as the mage, screwed.
  • Power Flex 1: Artificer spells work like Arcane Spells, just with MP scaling. They have a single element, or single thing they do. The flexibility from augments are things like being able to empower them so the 1st level spells can be cast with 5th level MP so they don't suck so badly.
  • Power Flex 2: Artificer spells don't cover the whole range of arcane, and are (they have low and mid tier, but no things like fireballs or chain lightning or whatnot. Most of their damage spells revolve around odd means of dealing it or unusual elements, so as to be Different)lacking in the high end damage ones, Detection spells and the less mystic enchantment stufflow divination/enchantment, almost no necromancy, (in place defense bots is it, which lacks the swarming potential of critters that can actually chase)no summoning, no healing(they can mend constructs, but even then they only get up to Critical wounds by level 10, and that's as high as they go).
  • Full Armor: Spell failure was added back in.
  • Covert: It's not covert. It's even less covert than usual, since you need the spell item to waggle around. "Hey, he's got a giant lightning rod, maybe that's a bad thing," etc.
  • Multiple Powers: The only thing the Artificer has going for him in this regard is the Permabuff quirk that lets him keep a mage armor on all day or such. It only applies to hourly spells, though, so it's not too much.
  • Increasing Power: This is the only one that really applies here, and it's a tradeoff(somewhat in the Psion/Artificer's favor, mind). The arcane spells scale for free up to a cap(so the 1st level spell dealing 5d6 with a 1st level charge), while the artificer has to pay 5MP for that luxury. It's just the Artificer can keep going. Still, note that there's a lack of flexibility, in that you have to actually make an item with a 5MP charge, and you can't change that around at a whim, and all the other weaknesses above(item bound, less covert), and it's not so bad.

I think you're panicking because you see MP and go "Oh ****, it's Psionics". It's really not. There's one factor that is similar, the ability to Empower with extra MP. The rest is not, as shown above. I have a Muggins will always play psions forever. You can't escape.high level psion in one of my other games, I know what you flail about. I try my best not to let that come back here.
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Last edited by Fragmaster01; Aug 28th, 2014 at 05:45 PM.
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  #33  
Old Aug 29th, 2014, 12:03 PM
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Ok, that covers most of it. It was more the 'scaling' than the MP, like I said I like the basic psionic method.

The 'perma buffs' are actually pretty large in the schema of things (get it....haha). How adamant are you with the arcane spellcaster feel to this class?

-me
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  #34  
Old Aug 29th, 2014, 02:51 PM
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I want the arcaney feel for one main reason: DM fiat. If you make some weird class based around specific components and ingredients and laboratory stuff, it suddenly becomes highly situational. I want the class to be able to stand on its own, and then the players/DM add in weird science and situational setting things as appropriate. It does make it a bit of "Oh, it's a caster but with toys", but we can define the toys however we wish to make it appropriate.

The biggest thing I can think of with permabuffing is using the level 2 Stat+ spells and leaving one always on. I'm sure you can think of something sillier. The main idea was "Hey, I have Mage Armor, let's have Always Mage Armor by spending a quirk". In general, if a spell looks like "hey, that would be broken if permanent" like Fire Support or Luddite Field, it doesn't have the hourly duration needed.

Added a few more spells. Absurd cantrips, Missile launching(pshewwwm), equipment failure(not quite save or die, but if you really needed that water-breathing mask...), and a Light Bridge for walking across little gaps(don't be on it when the duration ends!).
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The coffee is done, but the mug isn't in its usual spot. Where did it go? He forgot.

Last edited by Fragmaster01; Aug 30th, 2014 at 07:09 PM.
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  #35  
Old Aug 31st, 2014, 04:54 AM
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Paizo spell list is done, at least from my trawling through the Sorc/Wiz list. Might find more in Alchemist, but that will be later.

I put Fireball back in, as well as some of the other cool damage spells, with this reasoning:
  • They get them late. Fireball is at level 7 for them, for example.
  • It's weaker. At that level 7, they can only deal 5d6 with it, because of the MP scaling.
  • Thus, even if they get the cool spells, they're not As Cool as actually being a full caster.

Added in some telekinesis stuff in my list; one of them is intentionally meant for the permabuff spell(wander around moving things with your mind). Removed Discorporate, because there was a similar Paizo spell. Sorted my spell list.
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EDIT: My brain is fight. Awkward MRIs don't help. Expect delays.
A satyr rises in the morning, and hangs the coffee mug on his horns, so that he won't lose it.
The coffee is done, but the mug isn't in its usual spot. Where did it go? He forgot.

Last edited by Fragmaster01; Aug 31st, 2014 at 05:17 AM.
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  #36  
Old Aug 31st, 2014, 03:34 PM
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The fully compiled Artificer is here! We can keep talking about it in this thread, but any changes will henceforth be made in the public one, so that I don't have to change everything twice.
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A satyr rises in the morning, and hangs the coffee mug on his horns, so that he won't lose it.
The coffee is done, but the mug isn't in its usual spot. Where did it go? He forgot.
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  #37  
Old Sep 1st, 2014, 07:27 PM
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Ok, to clarify...the spells have a base item that needs to be premade, correct?
You build the item for a specific spell at 1 hr/MP, but it can be recharged?


BTW: this is THE public thread for the mechanics changes in this game. Copy paste it over here because there will likely be settings specific changes.

-me
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  #38  
Old Sep 1st, 2014, 08:21 PM
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Sure thing. Yes, the item has to be premade at the 1 hour/MP rate, but the reloading of MP is just a Full Round action(and you can load everything at the start of the day wizard style if you wish).

I won't be constantly copying back over here, because that's a lot of text.
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A satyr rises in the morning, and hangs the coffee mug on his horns, so that he won't lose it.
The coffee is done, but the mug isn't in its usual spot. Where did it go? He forgot.
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  #39  
Old Sep 3rd, 2014, 01:10 AM
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The mechanics writeups for the new Artificer spells are done! Well, the draft bits. They'll change as people gripe about specifics. Go look at your new Laser Pointer cantrip.
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EDIT: My brain is fight. Awkward MRIs don't help. Expect delays.
A satyr rises in the morning, and hangs the coffee mug on his horns, so that he won't lose it.
The coffee is done, but the mug isn't in its usual spot. Where did it go? He forgot.
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  #40  
Old Sep 18th, 2017, 11:56 PM
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Wow, ok so I have read through some of this, skimmed the rest. I designed a country based on technomancy for a book I want to write(and have started on), and the backbone invention for them was runic batteries. Take an item of any kind or shape, inscribe magical runes to hold power, and then use that to power constructs. The entire country ran off those, and was primarily clockwork stuff with some steam powered things. Now those required magic to operate, but everyone could use magic there, and in this system I believe that use magic device would work as a substitute.
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  #41  
Old Sep 19th, 2017, 03:35 PM
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I am making updates to the tech side in Post 1 for reference.

I have updated skills and copied engines in there. I will be updating engines soon.

-me
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