OOC: building the Magi-Tech system

[diabloblanco18]

Beyond the flavor aspect, I really don't see the purpose of a dedicated system of rules for magi-tech. What you seem to be aiming for is an alternate method of crafting magic items, only more complicated and with the hassle of maintenance. Why use an "engine" to power the abilities of a weapon, suit of armor, etc. when you can enchant the thing up front, and your only ongoing restrictions are in uses per day, if that?

The potential of technology is already inherent in the technology - it should benefit from the addition of magic, not be (in most of the cases you describe) worthless without it. Guns are an obvious example. There's nothing magical about them, but they bypass armor, and can be enchanted with all the same nasty things you could put on a bow. The rebreather you outlined is a good model for what I think a typical "steamworks" item should look like. It works off basic scientific principles, doesn't require magic or a dedicated engine to function, but provides a benefit that is both easy and obvious to enhance with magic.

Of course, I'm talking specifically about personal items here. Ships, cities, eldritch machines...those are in a category all their own. A steamworks setting should have steam engines, and perhaps supernatural variants of them, but engines are big. I really don't see the appeal in miniaturizing them and sticking them on bows and replacement limbs. For smaller devices that would logically require a source of power to function, I think a battery or its magical equivalent should be sufficient.

[jj_wolven]

That is one of the reasons why this is taking so long for me to figure out. I do NOT want just another method for magic items, I want something different.

Rudimentary batteries are one of the things I am considering, accumulators. They would be recharged by the engines when needed.

Engines - I am looking at different types with, but all based on the principles of steam engines. There would be smaller engines, but to get smaller than Small you would need one of the special variants to be able to get enough pressure to be worth while.

-me

[jj_wolven]

Alright, while I finish up with the overall mechanics I do have one thing I need additional opinions on...basic usage with coal. The times below are based on a few bits of research, then adjusted for ease of calculation. The base calculation I used was taken from the amount of coal used in a forge 1-1.5 ft cube at 1200 to 1500 degrees. This would be the approximate size of the fire for a small engine, where the rest (boiler, etc) takes us the rest of the size. The size is the actual size of the engine (Small = ~3 ft per side), burning at "high" temperatures.

Keep in mind that while we want to keep this realistic, we want to maintain a general ease of use. Also, not the efficiency of modern engines.

One of the engines I read about superheated the steam to 900 degrees F for 1700 psi. I think we should base our guesses off of that figure.

50 lbs coal (moderate) = 10 hrs small engine
50 lbs coal (high) = 20 hrs small engine
200 lbs coal (moderate) = 10 hrs med engine
800 lbs coal = 10 hrs large engine
3200 lbs coal = 10 hrs huge engine

For medium, large and huge engines I merely multiplied the previous by 4 as is done for area. I do not think this is an accurate representation...other ideas?f
Ideas as measure in lbs per 10 hrs.
1. Multiply previous by 4 (50 -> 200 -> 800 -> 3200)
2. Multiply previous by itself (50 -> 2500 -> 6,250,000 -> 39,062,500,000,000)
3. Multiple previous by itself div 10 (50 -> 250 -> 6250 -> 3,906,250)

As I see it; 1 is too low at higher sizes, 2 scales way too fast, 3 scales but less fast than 2.

My searches have not been able to get me a clear answer, but can anyone else find the following (or something similar).
How much coal was used at what temperature to run a train for how long and how much weight was it pulling?
Qty of Coal
Temperature of Fire
Length of Time Ran
Total Weight Pulled

If time-period is a factor, I would say use the efficiency of train around 1900.

-me

[jj_wolven]

Ok, discussed the base with one of my gaming groups. It looks like the best estimate that allows ease of use for coal usage is as follows:

Small Engine: 5 lbs/hr normal run
Medium Engine: 25 lbs/hr normal run
Large Engine: 125 lbs/hr normal run
Huge Engine: 15625 lbs/hr normal run

Coal/hr = coal/hr of previous size engine squared.

This is the actual size of the engine, not the size of the device it is powering.
I am currently leaning toward the engine being able to run a device two size ratings higher, or four devices one size larger, etc.

-me

[jj_wolven]

I think I will make an additional option on top of this stuff. It will be similar to the Artificier from Eberron, where it is something of a magic engineer.

-me

[Fragmaster01]

Boing!

 

I'll just be adding a list of stuff here as I ponder more. The full writeup will come later.
HD: d8+CON
SP: 4+INT
Saves: Good Reflex/Will, Poor Fort.
Class Skills: Appraise(INT), Craft(INT), Disable Device(DEX), Fly(DEX), Heal(WIS), Knowledge:Any(INT), Linguistics(INT), Perception(WIS), Profession(WIS), Sleight of Hand(DEX), Use Magic Device(CHA).

Level	BAB	Fort	Ref	Will	CLvl	MP	Special
1	+0	+0	+0	+2	1	3	Artificer Toy, Spell Items, Trinkets
2	+1	+0	+0	+3	2	5	Schema, Quirk
3	+2	+1	+1	+3	2	7	+1 Toy Enhancement
4	+3	+1	+1	+4	3	10	Evoked Item Prowess
5	+3	+1	+1	+4	4	13	Quirk
6	+4	+2	+2	+5	4	17	Schema
7	+5	+2	+2	+5	5	21	+2 Toy Enhancement
8	+6/+1	+2	+2	+6	6	26	Quirk,
9	+6/+1	+3	+3	+6	6	31	Super Tools
10	+7/+2	+3	+3	+7	7	38	Schema
11	+8/+3	+3	+3	+7	8	45	+3 Toy Enhancement, Advanced Quirk
12	+9/+4	+4	+4	+8	8	53	Steady Science
13	+9/+4	+4	+4	+8	9	61
14	+10/+5	+4	+4	+9	10	70	Schema, Advanced Quirk
15	+11/+6/+1	+5	+5	+9	10	79	+4 Toy Enhancement
16	+12/+7/+2	+5	+5	+10	11	89	I See it Now!
17	+12/+7/+2	+5	+5	+10	12	99	Advanced Quirk
18	+13/+8/+3	+6	+6	+11	13	100	Schema
19	+14/+9/+4	+6	+6	+11	14	111	+5 Toy Enhancement
20	+15/+10/+5	+6	+12	+13	15	123	Ultimate Quirk

Weapon Proficiencies: All Simple weapons. Additionally proficient with Handguns, Revolvers, Rifles, Launchers, or whatever their Artificer Toy is(if it's a Martial weapon, and they don't already have proficiency with it). If it's an Exotic Weapon, they have to purchase the proficiency feat themselves.
Armor Proficiencies: Light armor, Shields. Spell Items have Spell Failure when using Medium or Heavy armor(Light/Shields have no penalty). An Artificer Toy never provokes Spell Failure.
Important Stats: An Artificer uses Intelligence to determine Max MP, Spell Item/Schema DC, and Quirk DC.

Thing	Level Spread	Description
Artificer Toy	1	Their toy, which is either a Simple/Martial weapon, an Exotic weapon that they have proficiency with(via feat or otherwise), or a Body Armor. Has a core ability that levels up as they do. The rifle one is shown above.
Spell Items	1+every3	Their abilities to put on items. Maxes at 6th level at level 16. Others using spell items take a -4 to attack/Spell DC, and cannot reload them.
Trinkets	1	Cantrips, basically. They don't cost MP, but you can only know either 3 or your INTmod, whichever is higher.
Schema	2+every4	Abilities to add to their toy. Takes time and components to swap out.
Quirks	2+every3	Class abilities, like rogue talents. They offer fun things to do. Since they're every 3 levels, they're slightly stronger than talents, but cannot be purchased with feats.
Toy Enhancement	3+every4	Gains a +1 enhancement to their thingy.
Evoked Item Prowess	4	Use Artificer caster level in place of item caster level when using things like wands, if higher.
Super Tools	9	You can treat any skill toolkit as a masterwork one.
Steady Science	12	Take 10 on Craft and UMD checks, even under duress.
I See it Now!	16	You can craft 1st level spell item charges without your blueprints or scrolls.

Schema listed below are categorized by Melee Toys, Ranged Toys, or Armor Toys. Unless otherwise noted, they take 1 Schema Point to equip. Schema can be added/swapped at levelup for free. Changing them otherwise costs 250 * Required Level in gp per Schema, and takes 4 hours per Schema Point.

Core Schema	Type	Description
Doom Cannon	Firearm	Once every 4 rounds, the cannon can be charged up and fired with reckless abandon as a Full Round Action. The Artificer loses any Dexterity bonus to damage from Artificer levels, but deals an additional 1d6 PRC damage at 1st level, and another 1d6 every 2 levels thereafter. The firing time decreases to a Standard Action at level 6.
Bomb Kit	Throwing	You have a little device that churns out bombs for you! Isn't that sweet. It makes a number of free bombs per day: 5 at 1st level, and +2 per level afterwords. At 12th level, the number of bombs is infinite. They deal 1d6 FIR damage, using DEX for attack and INT for damage.
Power Fist	Melee	This weapon evolves to become stronger and stronger! The base damage is either the base damage of the weapon, or 1d8 at level 2, 1d10 at level 6, and 1d12 at level 10, whichever is higher. Additionally, you gain +1 STR at level 1 and every 3 levels thereafter(this counts as a +stat Schema for purposes of Schema limits).
Morph Weapon	Melee	This weapon can swap between Bludgeoning, Piercing, or Slashing damage as a Move action(Swift at level 8). It penetrates 1 point of Hardness or Damage Reduction at level 3, and +1 for every 3 levels thereafter.
Variant Morph Weapon	Melee/Ranged	You can swap between a Melee type weapon and a Ranged type as a Move action(Swift at level 8). Schema that aren't applicable to both types can only be used in that specific form. Feats like Weapon Focus that are weapon specific apply to both forms.
Power Armor	Armor	Your armor comes with all these little cogs, valves, and pneumatic hoses to help you move around. Pchewwwm. The armor check for the armor is decreased by -1 at level 1, and is lowered by an additional -1 at 3rd level and every 3 thereafter. It's okay to fly in bulky armor if the armor comes with jump jets! Science.
Invigorator	Armor	Your armor comes jam packed with all the latest pharmaceuticals, to inject you with at doses far beyond the recommended. It's probably just toxic waste, but you BELIEVE! When wearing your armor, you gain +1 MaxHP per level, and at 4th level and every 4 levels afterwords, you gain a stacking +1 magic bonus on Fort saves versus Pain, Poison, and Disease.
Force Shield	Shield	Your shield has -2 to armor check, and grants you +1 Temporary HP per 2 levels(recharges after 10 minutes). Doesn't stack with the Force Shield spell.
Friend Shield	Shield	Your shield can be activated(Swift action) to stick onto an ally within 30 feet; they gain 1/2 the Shield AC from it as well as any swapped enhancement abilities, but without any penalty to armor check or spell failure. You cannot take the Medium Exoskeleton schema with this Core Schema. Range increases to 45ft at level 8 and 60ft at level 16.
Shock Shield	Shield	You can activate your Shield(Standard action) to shoot a target for 1d6+INT+(AC Enhance) LIT damage, X2 crit, 30 ft range increment. This lowers the AC by 2(minimum -0) for 1 round, and has multiple attacks as per your BAB. Range increases to 45ft at level 8 and 60ft at level 16. This attack can be used freely in a grapple(Shield punch!).

Schema	Level	Mel	Rng	Arm	Shld	Desc
Element Shot	2		X			You can choose to deal damage of Fire, Ice, or Lightning damage when using this weapon, chosen when the Schema is learned. This can be taken multiple times, for different elements.
Quick Load	2		X			Firearms. You can reload as a Move action instead of a Standard action.
Rev It Up	2	X		X		Gain +5 to Movement Speed as a Swift action for 1 round. Increases to +10 at level 10.
Exoskeleton	2			X	X	Gain +1 to STR. Increases to +2 at level 7, +3 at level 12, and +4 at level 17. Cannot be equipped with other +stat Schema.
Nerve Actuators	2			X	X	Gain +1 to DEX. Increases to +2 at level 7, +3 at level 12, and +4 at level 17. Cannot be equipped with other +stat Schema.
Pain Stims	2			X		Gain +1 to CON. Increases to +2 at level 7, +3 at level 12, and +4 at level 17. Cannot be equipped with other +stat Schema.
Tesla Coil	2			X	X	Targets that strike you in melee take 1d4 LIT damage per attack. Damage increases by +1 at level 8, +2 at level 14, and +3 at level 20. Resolve the damage as a single attack for purposes of resistance.
Element Proofing	2			X	X	Gain Resistance 10 versus a magical element(FIR, ICE, LIT, ACD, SON, HOL, DRK). You can take this multiple times, it stacks and takes an extra Schema slot each time.
Retractable	2	X	X		X	You gain the Quick Draw feat for the purposes of this toy. Additionally, gain +2 CMD to resist Disarm/Steal attempts against it, increases to +4 at level 10 and +6 at level 18.
Dakka Dakka	2		X			Gain the benefit of Rapid Shot with your Ranged Weapon. If you have Rapid Shot already(or take it later), it doesn't consume an extra piece of ammunition.
Rockets!	2	X		X		Gain +10 to Speed when Charging.
Bonus Swap	4	X	X	X	X	Swap out a +1 enhancement bonus for a similar +1 ability(Elemental Damage, Keen, Throwing, Returning, Called, Countering, Deadly, Defending, Dispelling, Ghost Touch, Grounding, Guardian, Heartseeker, Limning, Menacing, Neutralizing, Quenching, or Thawing).
Cover!	6			X	X	Halve the AC bonus of your Armor or Shield for 1 round as a standard action to gain total cover. You cannot move or take hostile action while using this ability. Other creatures in your square gain the benefit of the cover.
Float On	6				X	Can't be used with Medium Exoskeleton. Your shield takes off as a Swift action, and tries its best to deflect shots. Its AC bonus is halved, but you keep all other benefits of the shield, and your hand is freed for other things. You can only take off the shield or bring it back once per round(and you can't do both in the same round).
Explosive	6	X	X			Attacks with this weapon deal +1 FIR damage to the target and surrounding squares. This damage always hits unless the target has Evasion or Improved Evasion, in which case they are immune.
More Rockets!	6	X		X		Requires Rockets! equipped. You can choose to gain +30 to speed when Running, but can only run in a perfectly straight line. Don't hit anything now.
Deadly Neurotoxin	6	X	X			This weapon deals -2 damage per attack, but lowers the enemy's Fortitude and Reflex saves by 1 on hit(-2 on a crit) for 3 rounds. Enemies immune to Poison are immune to the effect.
Adaptive Gear	6	X	X			This weapon deals +2 damage per attack. Does not stack with Weapon Specialization.
Medium Exoskeleton	6			X	X	Upgrade your Armor to Medium Armor base type, or Shield to a Tower Shield base type. You are proficient with and ignore spell failure from this armor/shield and ONLY this one(non-toy versions don't work).
Redundancy	10	X	X			Lower your Enhancement bonus by +1. Your weapon deals +1 FIR, ICE, LIT, ACD, and SON damage on-hit.
Medieval Chainsaw	10	X	X			Requires Adaptive Gear. Gain the benefits of Improved Critical for your Artificer Toy.
Heavy Exoskeleton	10			X		Requires Medium Exoskeleton. As Medium Exoskeleton, but with a Heavy Armor base type. Takes 2 Schema slots(but refunds the Medium Exoskeleton one, since you're not using it anymore).
Bonus Swap II	10	X	X	X	X	Swap out a +2 enhancement bonus for a similar +2 ability(Elemental Burst, Alignment, Anchoring, Kinetic, Igniting, Negating, Phase Locking, Wounding). Takes up 2 Schema slots.
Bonus Swap III	14	X	X	X	X	Swap out a +3 enhancement bonus for a similar +3 ability(Nullifying, Repositioning, Speed, Spell Stealing). Takes up 3 Schema slots.

Items are made based on some time to craft, and then can be refilled with MP as a Full Round action(provokes AoO). Thus, they can choose not to load their stuff ahead of time, but this means they have to load when the pressure is on, which may not be helpful. Prepared versus Spontaneous lives on! Other people can use their items(less effectively), but can't reload them. Items lose their charge after 1 day. Spell Items can only hold so many levels of spells, equal to the max level of spell the Artificer can use. So a level 20 Artificer could have a Spell Item with 6 level 1 charges(perhaps 6 of the same spell), 2 level 3 charges, 1 level 5 and 1 level 1 charge, etc. Reloading an item fills all the charges in the item, and you don't get to pick and choose which ones to fill.

Quirk	Grade	Description
Hold This	Basic	Allies can use your Artificer Items without penalty. They still can't reload them.
Duct Tape	Basic	Your spell items and crafted gear have +50% HP and +2 Hardness. Increases to double HP and +4 Hardness at level 12. This does not let your item penetrate item hardness more effectively, only protect it from damage.
Mine's Better!	Basic	You gain a +1 morale bonus on attack/spellDCs versus other Artificers, as well as defenses/saves versus their Spell Items/Toys. Increases to +2 at level 12.
Minion!	Basic	You gain a Follower, as per the Leadership feat, who is automatically replaced within 1 week if he explodes or something. He's like a little animal companion, but with table manners. Ask your DM if minions are acceptable before taking this one.
Mundane Crafting Speed	Basic	Mundane items can be crafted in 50% of the usual time. Improves to 25% at level 12, and 10% at level 18.
Magical Crafting Speed	Basic	Magical items can be crafted in 90% of the usual time. Improves to 80% at level 12, and 70% at level 18.
Crafting Knowledge	Basic	The Artificer learns two Craft Magical Item feats. The level requirement is lowered by -2. This only gives the sorts of feats like Craft Wondrous Item; feats that enhance crafting must be purchased normally.
Safeguard	Basic	When loading a spell, you can designate it to activate when someone other than you uses the item.
Perpetual Enough Motion	Basic	Pick a Spell Item buff with a duration in hours. It now lasts for 24 hours. You can only enhance one ability at a time in this manner.
Check the Manual	Basic	Add 1/2 your Artificer level to Spellcraft checks to identify an item.
They Called Me Mad!	Basic	Subtract your WIS modifier from your INT modifier for the purposes of MP/day and Spell Item DCs. This ability cannot penalize you, only give you bonuses(minimum +0).
Win One for Science!	Basic	You gain a +1 morale bonus on attack and +1/die on damage versus Druids, Summoned Nature's Ally creations, and other [Nature] enemies. You show up as Evil or otherwise unpleasant to those sorts of creatures/people.
How Dare You	Basic	1/day, when knocked unconscious or killed, you can activate one of your damage dealing spell items automatically, with the one who KOed you as the target. He must be in range.
Overload(Boost)	Basic	Spend 2x the usual MP cost when loading a spell item. The ability deals +1 damage per die.
Calibration(Boost)	Basic	Spend 2x the usual MP cost when loading a spell item. The ability gains +1 to attack or save DC. Increases to +2 at level 12.
Smooth Loader(MM)	Basic	When crafting a spell item, you can designate it as a Smooth Loader item. Increase the MP cost of the spell by +2; it has no Somatic components.
That Went Everywhere...(MM)	Basic	Spend +2 MP when loading. The area of effect of a spell item increases by 50%.
Pretty Explosions!(MM)	Basic	Spend +2 MP when loading. This damage Spell Item deals Fire damage instead of its normal type, and deals +2d6 damage.
Not Grounded(MM)	Basic	Spend +2 MP when loading. This damage Spell Item deals Lightning damage instead of its normal type, and deals +2d6 damage.
SCIENCE, not Magic!	Basic	Gain +2 to spell penetration with your items, because you firmly believe they're not actually magical.
Batteries	Basic	You can set aside up to your max MP/round(aka, your caster level in MP) at the start of the day to load into Spell Items later as a Swift action, to quickly load them.
Copyright Law	Advanced	If you have a similar spell effect loaded(not just held) as one that is currently targeting you, you gain +1 to AC/Saves versus that effect. Increases to +2 at level 18.
Human Resources	Advanced	Artificer Rituals/spells that require material components costing GP can have the cost substituted by various body parts of creatures of at least your CR - 4(100gp per CR) at the time of item loading. This increases the loading time by 10 minutes per creature harvested. Gross.
Quick Charge	Advanced	You can reload Spell Items as a Standard action.
Put This On	Advanced	Requires Hold This. Allies can use your Artificer Toy without penalty, and gain +4 on UMD checks to use items you have made.
Crafting Thrift	Advanced	At the expense of not being able to take 10 on your craft check(even with the class ability), the cost of item crafting is lowered by 5%. The item fails to be created on a natural 1, regardless of skill.
Nobody Saw That	Advanced	1/day you can choose to reroll a roll associated with a Spell Item after learning the roll amount but before learning the result(did it hit or not). You have to be using the Spell Item to get the reroll, you can't just hand a reroll to someone else.
The Big Red One!	Advanced	Attack Spell Items now crit on a 19X2. Gains +2 to confirm crits at level 18.
Infinite Recursion	Advanced	Requires Perpetual Enough Motion. You can enhance a second ability to last 24 hours.
Extra Toy!	Advanced	You gain an extra Artificer Toy. Treat both toy's Core Schema as being per your Artificer Level -4, and you must share Schema slots between the two toys. Schema cannot stack with themselves.
Hyper Toy	Ultimate	Your Artificer Toy gains an extra +1 enhancement(+6 total) and an extra Schema slot. If you have the Extra Toy! quirk, you must pick which one gets the bonuses.
Speed Loader	Ultimate	Requires Batteries. Reloading your Spell Items does not provoke Attacks of Opportunity. 1/day you may reload a Spell Item as an Immediate Action.
Rational Explanation	Ultimate	Requires SCIENCE, Not Magic! You can spend 1MP per spell level to use your spell items in an antimagic field. Because you know, it's not really magic, right?

Paizo Spell List - Spells that are in the SRD or other linkable sources

• Trinkets: Resistance, Acid Splash, Detect Magic, Read Magic, Flare, Light, Ghost Sound, Jolt, Mage Hand, Mending, Open/Close, Arcane Mark
• Lvl1 A/C/D/E: Alarm, Endure Elements, Shield, Abundant Ammunition, Grease, Obscuring Mist, Detection Spells, Deathwatch, Moment of Greatness
• Lvl1 V/I/N: Burning Hands, Ear-Piercing Scream, Flare Burst, Magic Missile, Shocking Grasp, Blend, Clarion Call, Disguise Self, Illusion of Calm, Magic Aura, Silent Image, Vanish, Ventriloquism, Bed of Iron, Chill Touch, Ray of Enfeeblement, Ray of Sickening
• Lvl1 T: Alchemical Tinkering, Ant Haul, Break, Burning Disarm, Crafter's Fortune, Enlarge Person Erase, Expeditious Excavation, Expeditious Retreat, Fabricate Bullets, Feather Fall, Forced Quiet, Jump, Jury-Rig, Lighten Object, Longshot, Magic Weapon, Reduce Person, Reinforce Armaments, Snapdragon Fireworks, Swift Girding, Touch of Gracelessness, Unerring Weapon, Vocal Alteration, Weaken Powder
• ---
• Lvl2 A/C/D/E: Arcane Lock, Book Ward, Bullet Shield, Endure Elements(Communal), Obscure Object, Resist Energy, Warding Weapon, Acid Arrow, Create Pit, Cushioning Bands, Fiery Shuriken, Fog Cloud, Glitterdust, Reloading Hands, Retrieve Item, Returning Weapon, Web, Detect Thoughts, Determine Depth, Locate Object, See Invisibility, Share Language, Spell Gauge, Track Ship, Daze Monster, Delay Pain
• Lvl2 V/I/N: Admonishing Ray, Burning Gaze, Burst of Radiance, Continual Flame, Darkness, Defensive Shock, Elemental Touch, Flaming Sphere, Frigid Touch, Frost Fall, Gust of Wind, Pilfering Hand, Ricochet Shot, Scorching Ray, Shatter, Spontaneous Immolation, Blur, Disguise Other, Hypnotic Pattern, Invisibility, Magic Mouth, Minor Image, Phantom Trap, Blindness/Deafness, Defoliate, Unshakable Chill
• Lvl2 T: Alter Self, Ant Haul(Communal), Bear's Endurance, Buoyancy, Cat's Grace, Certain Grip, Codespeak, Darkvision, Destabilize Powder, Eagle's Splendor, Eldritch Conduit, Fox's Cunning, Glide, Kinetic Reverberation, Knock, Levitate, Magic Siege Engine, Masterwork Tranformation, Owl's Wisdom, Pyrotechnics, Recoil Fire, Reinforce Armaments(Communal), Snow Shape, Spider Climb, Stabilize Powder, Telekinetic Assembly, Thunder Fire, Twisted Space, Whispering Wind
• ---
• Lvl3 A/C/D/E: Ablative Sphere, Cloak of Winds, Dispel Magic, Explosive Runes, Nondetection, Protection from Arrows(Communal), Protection from Energy, Resist Energy(Communal), Ablative Barrier, Force Anchor, Ice Spears, Pellet Blast, Phantom Driver, Returning Weapon(Communal), Sepia Snake Sigil, Spiked Pit, Stinking Cloud, Arcane Sight, ClairAud/Voy, Discern Value, Locate Weakness, Seek Thoughts, Share Language(Communal), Tongues, Deep Slumber, Hold Person, Rage, Suggestion
• Lvl3 V/I/N: Battering Blast, Blacklight, Call the Void, Campfire Wall, Channel the Gift, Daylight, Diamond Spray, Distracting Cacophony, Elemental Aura, Fireball, Firestream, Force Punch, Lightning Bolt, Sheet Lightning, Vengeful Comets, Wind Wall, Dazzling Blade, Mass, Displacement, Illusory Script, Invisibility Sphere, Major Image, Healing Thief, Sands of Time, Vampiric Touch
• Lvl3 T: Anthro Animal, Armor Lock, Blast Barrier, Blink, Blot, Burrow, Darkvision(Communal), Fire Trail, Flame Arrow, Flash Fire, Fly, Gaseous Form, Haste, Hostile Levitation, Improve Trap, Keen Edge, Magic Weapon(Greater), Resinous Skin, Secret Page, Shifting Sand, Shrink Item, Slow, Spider Climb(Communal), Touch Injection, Versatile Weapon, Water Breathing
• ---
• Lvl4 A/C/D/E: Curse of Magic Negation, Dimensional Anchor, Fire Trap, Globe Invuln(Lesser), Nondetection(Communal), Protection from Energy(Communal), Stoneskin, True Form, Ward Shield, Acid Pit, Conjure Deadfall, Dimension Door, Minor Creation, Secure Shelter, Solid Fog, Touch of Green Slime, Arcane Eye, Detect Scrying, Locate Creature, Scrying, Share Senses, Symbol of Revelation, Tongues(Communal), Aura of the Unremarkable, Confusion, Daze(Mass), Malfunction
• Lvl4 V/I/N: Ball Lightning, Detonate, Fire Shield, Hurricane Blast, Ice Storm, Resilient Sphere, River of Wind, Shout, Telekinetic Charge, Vitriolic Mist, Volcanic Storm, Wall of Fire, Wall of Ice, Hallucinatory Terrain, Illusory Wall, Invisibility(Greater), Rainbow Pattern, Shocking Image, Simulacrum(Lesser), Boneshatter, Contagion, Enervation
• Lvl4 T: Absorbing Inhalation, Calcific Touch, Create Holds, Darkvision(Greater), Earth Glide, Enlarge Person(Mass), Firefall, Miasmatic Form, Obsidian Flow, Reduce Person(Mass), Ride the Waves, Scorching Ash Form, Stone Shape, Symbol of Slowing
• ---
• Lvl5 A/C/D/E: Break Enchantment, Covetous Aura, Life Bubble, Mage's Private Sanctum, Siphon Magic, Soothe Construct, Spell Absorption, Unbreakable Construct, Acidic Spray, Cloudkill, Corrosive Consumption, Geyser, Hostile Juxtaposition, Hungry Pit, Major Creation, Secret Chest, Teleport, Wall of Stone, Prying Eyes, Symbol of Scrying, Telepathic Bond, Apparent Master, Hold Monster, Symbol of Sleep
• Lvl5 V/I/N: Cone of Cold, Fire Snake, Icy Prison, Lightning Arc, Sending, Sonic Thrust, Wall of Force, Wall of Sound, Mirage Arcana, Persistent Image, Seeming, Blight, Blood Boil, Suffocation, Symbol of Pain, Waves of Fatigue
• Lvl5 T: Baleful Polymorph, Echolocation, Energy Siege Shot, Fabricate, Fickle Winds, Lighten Object(Mass), Overland Flight, Passwall, Polymorph, Rapid Repair, Telekinesis, Transmute Mud to Rock, Transmute Rock to Mud, Permanency
• ---
• Lvl6 A/C/D/E: Antimagic Field, Dispel Magic(Greater), Globe of Invuln, Symbol of Sealing, Acid Fog, Chains of Light, Getaway, Ice Crystal Teleport, Wall of Iron, Battlemind Link, True Seeing, Cloak of Dreams, Suggestion(Mass)
• Lvl6 V/I/N: Chains of Fire, Chain Lightning, Contagious Flame, Contingency, Elemental Assessor, Freezing Sphere, Leashed Shackles, Path of the Winds, Sirocco, Mislead, Permanent Image, Programmed Image, Veil, Symbol of Fear, Unwilling Shield
• Lvl6 T: Bear's Endurance(Mass), Bull's Strength(Mass), Cat's Grace(Mass), Control Water, Disintegrate, Eagle's Splendor(Mass), Eldritch Conduit(Greater), Enemy Hammer, Energy Siege Shot(Greater), Flesh to Stone, Fluid Form, Fox's Cunning(Mass), Hardening, Impart Mind, Move Earth, Owl's Wisdom(Mass), Sabotage Construct, Stone to Flesh, Tar Pool, Transformation

[Fragmaster01]

I have a few fixy thoughts, though nothing overarching.

• UMD - Some sort of limitation on what UMD can dole out. Not an artificer fix per se, but something to limit its grandeur. Perhaps make it so UMD can't actually use high level spell-activation items unless it's on your list.
• Reflex as a good save? Yes/No? DONE
• Spell Failure? DONE
• Imbue Item and Schema Swap need to be replaced with happier abilities. EIP and Steady Crafting are fine. (Needs replacement abilities)
• Schema Swapping Costs DONE
• Toy Limits DONE
• Schema Progression DONE, (Needs new level 16 ability)
• Do we want Spells Known? Or should they have it be wizardly? There's flavor merits for both.
• Spell Items for Others(-4) DONE

General thingy fixes:

• Duct Tape should not be able to penetrate item hardness better. It's an anti-sunder ability. Wording ideas? DONE, but awkward.
• A buff enhanced with Perpetual Enough Motion can't be recast as long as it's still in effect. Yes, your Mage Armor lasts all day, but no, you can't feed it to the whole party. DONE
• Boost and Metamagic: You can only use one at a time. Needs some wording to say that you need enough caster level to use the Metamagic ones(so MM on a level 1 charge requires caster level 3, and so forth). Needs more Metamagic/Boost Quirks in general.
• SCIENCE, not Magic - Should it only apply when YOU use the item?
• Empower should not strictly count as a MM quirk, since it should be allowed to be combined with the other ones. Empower removed, as now spells run on MP augmenting ala psionics, and so Empowering is built into the casting system.
• Put This On is iffy, mainly the UMD bonus. Spending a quirk for the Toy Proficiency seems weak by itself, though. Thoughts?

Things to add:

• Alchemical Power Items, those rarely used things in the SRD. Needs things that are consumed(special ammo, what have you) and things that are added to the item but not expended(basically a GP cost).
• Needs a refining of the spell list, and adding of spells that are more SCIENCEy. (See below)
• Rules on what constitutes a Spell Item, as mentioned in OOC. Needs to be reasonably large and thematically appropriate. No putting Death Rays on a feather.
• Rules for Shield based Artificer Toys. Schema for upgrading Armor into bulkier and heavier forms, with some sort of drawback.

[Fragmaster01]

If I use a notation like 1d6/MP(-2), that means that the spell scales at 1d6 per MP, but starts 2d6 lower than it would normally. A third level spell would start at 3d6 for 5MP, 4d6 for 6, and so forth.

Spell	Level	Type	Descrip
*	*	*	LEVEL 0
Blueprints	0	Conjuration	When crafting something(magical or mundane), this cantrip doctors up useful blueprints for others to follow, granting them +1 on the craft check. Legal processing not included.
Laser Pointer	0	Conjuration	Look, over there! Go get it!
Dramatic Lightning	0	Evocation	As an immediate action, causes lightning to flash behind you when being dramatic. A staple for mad scientists.
Jacob's Ladder	0	Evocation	You make a little rising electrical arc machine, which makes you feel like a real mad scientist. 1 LIT damage if you touch it.
Bigger on the Inside	0	Transmutation	Enchanted pockets/bags gain +.5 cubic feet of carrying space.
Comfort	0	Transmutation	Makes the target equipment very warm, cozy, and seemingly lightweight.
HUD	0	Transmutation	Enchants gear to have info readouts: ammo count, range to target, etc.
Recolor	0	Transmutation	Changes the color of a light source.
*	*	*	LEVEL 1
Defense Turret	1	Conjuration	Makes a little steampunk turret, that pops little bullets at people. Aww. Stats increase with MP spent.
Light Bridge	1	Conjuration	Makes a glowing spectral bridge to walk across, of length up to 10 + 10/MP feet. Don't be on it when the duration ends.
SRM Volley	1	Conjuration	Fires little mini rockets(ranged touch) dealing 1d6 damage to each target, extra missile per 2 extra MP. You can split up the missiles amongst multiple targets, they must all be within 30 feet of you. Half FIR, half BLG damage.
Summon Toolkit	1	Conjuration	You get a wrench! And you get a wrench! Everybody gets a wrench!
Robot Friend	1	Enchantment	As Charm Person, but for constructs and automated systems.
Discharge	1	Evocation	Deals 1d6/MP LIT damage to a random enemy target within 15 feet.
Grenade!	1	Evocation	Deals 1d6/2MP FIR damage to the target square(Ref Half), 1 damage to adjacent squares(Ref Negates, or Evasion Negates).
Pesticide	1	Necromancy	Deals 1 damage to all Insect related creatures in the area. This is usually enough.
Hyper Crossbow	1	Transmutation	Enchanted ranged weapon gains +1 damage, +50% range, but makes a horrible racket when fired.
Inertial Barrier	1	Transmutation	Designate an area to hinder movement in one direction.
Lawnmower	1	Transmutation	Neatly trim overgrown vegetation and druidic plant nonsense. Counters Entangle.
Mending, Light	1	Transmutation	As Cure Light Wounds, but repairs constructs and objects.
Rocket Boots	1	Transmutation	Gain +10 to speed. Alternatively, waive your speed bonus for 1 round to deal FIR damage with your unarmed strikes.
Speakerphone	1	Transmutation	Makes sound in an area or from a target much louder, projecting it over distance.
Wizard Hand	1	Transmutation	As Mage Hand, except 5 lbs/MP and can grab whatever object you please(one at a time) with a duration of 1 minute/level.
*	*	*	LEVEL 2
Ruinproofing	2	Abjuration	Object gains ACD/SON resistance 10+1/MP, or a creature gains half that much.
Insulation	2	Abjuration	Object gains FIR/LIT resistance 10+1/MP, or a creature gains half that much.
Force Shield	2	Abjuration	Gives yourself a 3/MP temporary HP shield for 1 minute/MP.
Force Field	2	Abjuration	Force Field
Goggles Do Something	2	Abjuration	Cast on Goggles or other eyewear. You are immune to Blind/Dazzled/Etc for 1 hour/MP, but take -2 to Perception. Effect only lasts as long as the goggles are equipped.
Ethermine	2	Evocation	Marks target square; anyone entering the square within 1 minute takes 1d6/MP FIR or LIT damage. The damage type is chosen when the spell is learned.
Greased Lightning	2	Evocation	As the Grease spell, except targets who step on it also take 1d6/2MP LIT damage.
Fortify	2	Transmutation	Improve the HP/AC/Saves of a target structure/wall.
Laser Sword	2	Transmutation	Enchants weapon to ignore hardness, give off light. Wummmm.
Mending, Moderate	2	Transmutation	As Cure Moderate Wounds, but repairs constructs and objects.
*	*	*	LEVEL 3
Acropolis	3	Conjuration	Shoots up a spike of earth under the target, dealing 4d6 PRC damage +1d6/2 Extra MP, with a chance to knock prone. Blocks the target square.
Jet Engine	3	Conjuration	Enchanted vehicle gains a hefty increase to speed, at the expense of being able to stop in any decent timeframe. Speed increase depends on vehicle size and MP spent.
LRM Volley	3	Conjuration	As SRM Volley(one target only), but the range increases to Long(400+40/MP).
SRM Volley, Focused	3	Conjuration	As SRM volley, except it only targets one enemy, and fires one missile per MP.
Summon Siege Weapon	3	Conjuration	Instant trebuchet. Pull!
Ethermine, Messy	3	Evocation	As Ethermine, except -1d6 to the primary target damage, and spreads 3d6 damage of its element over the surrounding area(15ft radius, +5 feet per extra 2MP).
Ethermine, Stealth	3	Evocation	As Ethermine, except -1d6 to the damage, and only you know which square is marked.
Horrid Corrosion	3	Evocation	Deals 1d6/MP(-1) ACD damage in a 15ft radius.
On Ice	3	Evocation	Target takes 1d6/MP ICE damage, possibly taking a speed penalty.
Poor Insulation	3	Evocation	Targets touching a given surface within 60 feet of your target take 1d6/MP LIT damage. Hazardous when cast underwater.
Cryo Storage	3	Transmutation	Target willing creature not of the [Fire] subtype is put into stasis, effectively stopping all ongoing effects on them at the cost of being unable to take action. The duration of ongoing effects does not decrease while frozen.
Flying Caboose	3	Transmutation	Enchanted vehicle can fly. Requires repeated applications for larger vehicles.
Gatling Gun	3	Transmutation	Causes a firearm to unleash its ammunition rapidly, increasing damage and spread, but vastly lowering accuracy.
Gravity Field	3	Transmutation	Targets in area have their carrying weight doubled, which may encumber them, and penalizes Acrobatics. Weight penalty increases with additional MP.
Gravity Field, Anti	3	Transmutation	Targets in area have their carrying weight halved, and improves Acrobatics. Weight reduction gets better with additional MP.
Mending, Serious	3	Transmutation	As Cure Serious Wounds, but repairs constructs and objects.
*	*	*	LEVEL 4-6
Anti-Ragnarok	4	Abjuration	Item becomes immune to minor damage
Fire Support	4	Conjuration	Automatically fires two SRM missiles(2d6 ranged touch, 1/2 FIR 1/2 BLG) against a target of your melee/ranged weapon attacks each round. Only one missile burst per round, regardless of how many attacks you make.
Set Up Us the Bomb	4	Evocation	Target explodes for FIR damage after 2 rounds, during which they are painfully aware of their imminent doom. Can spend additional MP to undo the effect.
It Lives!	4	Necromancy	Target dead thing is ressurected, gaining Construct traits.
Augmentation	4	Transmutation	Replace a body part with a mechanical one.
Directional Gravity	4	Transmutation	Enchanted room/hallway has its gravity point a different direction.
I'm Melting!	4	Transmutation	Target takes ACD damage, and can must Fort Save or melt if brought below half HP by this spell.
Item Hack	4	Transmutation	You activate a target's magic item(or turn it off) without their permission.
Master Hand	4	Transmutation	As Wizard Hand, except it lasts for 1 hour/MP.
Mending, Critical	4	Transmutation	As Cure Critical Wounds, but repairs constructs and objects.
*	*	*	LEVEL 5-6
Declaration of Invincibility	5	Abjuration	Gain a large morale bonus to AC and saves, in exchange for weakening your artificer spells. Evil Laughter optional.
System Scan	5	Divination	Detect all electronic/artificer systems attached to a given set of machinery/electronics.
Cannot Protect You	5	Transmutation	Target's gear falls off; the more MP, the more items targeted.
Luddite Field	5	Transmutation	Hinders or prevents the use of machinery, constructs, guns, and artificer magic in the area.
Death Ray	6	Conjuration	Spend 1 round setting up a DEATH RAY, to blast your enemies with FIR/LIT damage. May potentially draw aggro of everyone around you.
Robot Minion	6	Enchantment	As Dominate Person, but for constructs and automated systems.
Orbital Strike	6	Evocation	Call down the thunder! 1d6/MP LIT/SON damage, Reflex Halves, ignores cover.
Liquidate	6	Transmutation	As Flesh to Stone, except the target melts. Creatures immune to Acid damage are immune to this spell.
Recorporate	6	Transmutation	Undoes the effects of spells like Flesh to Stone and Liquidate.

Give suggestions! SCIENCE!

[jj_wolven]

Few suggestions, but first what are MP and where are they used?

-me

[Fragmaster01]

There's an MP/Level column in the class table above(it's in the spoiler button, for size). It works like Psion PP, of which a refresher is:

• You have MP, and you spend it on spells. Rather than Spell Slots like most mages, your spells scale off of MP rather than caster level. Caster level is instead a cap on how much MP you can spend in a round. Where a Sorcerer's Fireball might deal 1d6 damage per level, yours deals 1d6 per MP.
• Because of this, you can naturally empower your spells. Every 2MP you spend beyond the original cost ups the spell's effective level and thus its DC.
• Some spells also have augments, where you spend MP that doesn't count towards the usual scaling of the spell to provide additional benefit. Say, you have a Cure Light Wounds spell, and it comes with a thing saying you can spend +8MP to make it Cure Light Wounds Mass. That sort of thing.
• MP scales with casting stat, just as spells/day do. You gain 1/2 your Casting Stat times your level in MP, or 10MP per +1 at level 20 if you will. Rounds down.
• If using a Paizo spell, you swap in MP for caster level for anything in the Effect area in terms of scaling, while things like Range and Area scale with level like normal. I think that's right, Psionics people correct me if I'm wrong.

For the Artificer, as mentioned, the MP is used to 'reload' your spell items. They start the day with no charge, and thus can't be used. A given spell item can have a number of MP on it equal to your caster level, like a Psion's MP limit. However, it can be distributed among however many spells, so if your item has 11 1MP charges of Mend Light Wounds, then as long as you have Caster Level 11, you can do that. More likely however, you'll have items that have a 6th level spell that actually costs 11 MP, and eat up the whole item.

Thus, an Artificer is limited in space(what items he currently has out) as well as preparation(what he has in his bag). She's much friendlier when you're out of combat and have time to pick and choose what you want to have on you. Quick Draw is kind of a Most Important Feat for them, for that sort of reason.

[jj_wolven]

As mentioned, a lot of cherry picking, but salvageable. But first, the name is a misnomer...I think Technomancer is closer.

Skills:
There are several skills on the list that don't make any sense (Bluff, Stealth). I suggest the following list.
Appraise (Int), Craft (any) (Int), Disable Device (Dex), Fly (Dex), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (any) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha).

Also, as pointed out, Int based classes rarely have that many skill points. I would suggest 2+Int like all of the others.

I think the rest can be fixed by making "Spell Item" an option as an artificier's toy rather than a special ability.
Otherwise, this is a Psionic Magus Bladebound that isn't limited to a slashing weapon...PLUS rogue talents PLUS additional upgrades.

There would be some adjustments needed for specifics too.

-me

[Fragmaster01]

I went with Artificer because it's what the boring 3.5 class was. Consistency. Technomancer works though.

Alchemists have 4+INT as an INT class, and they're the closest analogue. Ah, I see I hadn't changed it to 4 in the writeup. Your class skill list setup is fine, I'll change that in later.

Keep in mind the Bladebound Magus gets Arcana and side abilities too! They each have their toy, their 6level casting, their every 3 level class ability, and their side ability. The magus is more focused on killing people, while the Artificer is more focused on Utility, but they still have the same level of loadout. The Magus Blackblade only goes up to +5, but that's semi-weak compared to what people get with normal equipment, so I dunno there.


I think that we've got the generals covered in the list above(as mentioned in OOC, UMD is the sticking point), so I think at this point we need:

• Empty Level Abilities for levels 7/16/19. They shouldn't be strong or game changing, but rather quality of life stuff, like what we have for Evoked Item Prowess and Steady Science.
• What should the primary spells known type of the class be? Wizardly, where they carry around a science notebook but have less MP? Or Sorcerous, where they know their own unique discoveries that they put into practice? I'm thinking one is the Main style, and other comes in as an archetype.
• Filling out the Paizo spell list, so as to make more clear what they do(and more importantly, do Not) have access to.
• Clear UMD houserules, so as to avoid the scroll katamari throwing Time Stop down people's necks when it's not something they should be able to have. Perhaps limits on the maximum level of the spell used if it's not on your list?
• Rules on Spell Items. What's a good definition for something that can be filled with SCIENCE? Presumably anything that takes an equipment slot, but perhaps also little mines, boxes of oddities, and so forth. Should a 2-handed item be able to have 2 sets of MP charges(like a staff or such)? I'd say that a Wand is too small for a Spell Item(it's a crafted expendable), but a Rod covered in little wires and glowy bits would be perfect for some sort of lightning nonsense. For the record, I generally say rods are 1d4 X2 BLG, in the sense of "Well, if you Really have to hit someone with them, but that's not the point."
• The Shield Artificer Toy type, and schema thereof.
• More Unique spells. SCIENCE.

Apart from those, suggestions and critiques of specific things in the class and lists are good. I've talked with Caput on the spell list and such, but more input is always better.

[Fragmaster01]

2nd and 3rd level Paizo spells added to the list in the spoiler button above. I'm thinking they should get a flamethrower sort of spell rather than fireball(upgraded burning hands, with extra range and fwoosh). Random thoughts!

[jj_wolven]

This class has a very strong spellcaster feel to it, so the 'it's not magic' is a stretch unless the user has a in game psychosis.

Skills 4+Int is fine.

Empty levels are fine as long as they are increasing BAB or Saves. Plenty of classes have them.

UMD is find, no house rules really needed. There has to BE a Time Stop calimari before it can be used...and that is the GMs fault.

Magus does have Arcana, but they are not as good as the Quirks...or more accurately most add additional possibilities, not direct buffs to the weapons.
And lower the weapon to the power of the Magus'.

The Artificer you created is at least as martial as the magus, his main abilities are combat focused.

The spell list has some things that would need to be changed; you have regeneration as a 4th level spell, as well as an improved 'reverse gravity'.

And anything resembling psionics...no.
In practice, psionics are vastly overpowered. This is in-game experience as player and DM using both the 3.0 system and the patchfinder system. Way. Too. Powerful.
This is "make the game less fun for everyone else" powerful, so no.

-me

[Fragmaster01]

I'd need to check out the Magus Arcana again. I can lower it to +5. DONE. Levels 9 and 12 are now properly Dead Levels, though, as they don't have anything like increasing maximum spell level on those levels.

The reverse gravity one is meant as a long-term enchantment, whereas the high level arcane version is "I'm gonna throw you into space". Artificer's is for making funky rooms, not killing people. It could be worded better.

Augmentation can be moved around, but it wasn't meant to be some super healing spell. More of a player going "I want laser eyes!" and having a ritual to do that.

Originally Posted by Caput

My opinion on that is that I am mostly with the people who say it's not overpowered. Mostly the effects are the same as spells or slightly weaker, and the flexibility of PP is paid for in low numbers of powers known. However, there are caveats.

There is a stereotype that people get the rules wrong and do not know that you're limited to a certain number of PP spent in one go. If you miss that rule, the game breaks. Even with that rule, psionic characters are better at going nova than conventional spellcasters, though they are not better overall over the course of a typical day. That means they are at their strongest when it seems most unfair, and that if your party only faces one or two encounters every day that will benefit psionic classes more than others.

Also, if you want more ammo, the main reason psionics is known for power is the broken builds, but there are broken builds everywhere. Once you filter out the wall-hopping psywar and the spell-to-power erudite, it all looks much more reasonable.

(I poke Caput because he's far better at breaking things than I am. Also better at researching on the internet for how Other people have broken things).

The main reason I do MP here is because of how the spell items work. An items/day setup vastly favors items with bazillions of level 1 charges, because they'll scale up to 5d6 or whatever with just the 1 charge. With MP, you have to spend 5 MP(or a 3rd level spell) to get that 5d6. In this case, it's actually a limiting factor, in that if you want spells to scale, you have to spend more than you normally would.

What specifically do you have against it? You say 'it's bad', but don't offer examples. Gimme gimme lookit.