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  #91  
Old 07-09-2019, 11:19 AM
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Last edited by wodine; 07-09-2019 at 01:58 PM.
  #92  
Old 07-09-2019, 12:58 PM
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I have to object to the ruling that Su abilities are inherently a standard action unless otherwise stated. Things such as auras and vision can be Su abilities and require no action, and speech is a free action. Without anything indicating that it takes a standard action, I don’t see why speaking a unique language that a huge investment of resources (i.e. a feat) has gone into should suddenly be basically all I can do in a round.

Supernatural abilities that aren’t an action and don’t say they aren’t: (From bestiary I)
Damage Reduction
Darkvision
Disease
Emotion Aura
Gaze Attack (it is both passive and active)
Greensight
Immunities
Lifesense
Low-light Vision
Paralysis effects
Telepathy (particularly relevant since it is communication also)
Thoughtsense
Unnatural Aura
X-ray vision

Speak with animals is used as a reference but it does not say it acts as the spell. In fact it acts more like tongues where you only have one language at a time and not a stated action to change it. In the same place feral speech is identified you get another Su ability “Multimorph” which is explicitly stated to be a standard action. I am not seeing anything that says Su abilities are inherently a standard action other than the generalized table that literally cannot be expected to cover everything. If special talking is now a standard action then special vision and special protection should probably also be used as such because the table says so and DR or darkvision don’t contain lines that say it doesn’t take an action.

Edit: speak with animals is used as a guide IMO but also explicitly says you have to choose what “language” you speak with each time, much like normal speech. This merely differentiates it from regular speak with animals...but is otherwise exactly like using other languages.

Su abilities are listed under the standard action table of the PFRPG core rule book.

EDIT FROM SQUEAK -- HERE is a link where it says Supernatural abilities are a standard action - you need to tab down a bit to standard actions.
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Last edited by Squeak; 07-09-2019 at 01:10 PM.
  #93  
Old 07-09-2019, 01:18 PM
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Problematic example:

If we are treating the standard action table as Iron Clad, then I really hope we face a Marilith, which are constantly under the effect of the Spell-Like Ability True Seeing, which would prevent them from ever using a Standard Action to attack us or using any of their other abilities.
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Last edited by Gaijin; 07-09-2019 at 01:19 PM.
  #94  
Old 07-09-2019, 01:21 PM
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I actually referenced that table. Please note the long list of things listed that do not take standard actions to use and do not list otherwise. Telepathy is of particular note as it is Su communication that does not say it takes a standard action yet is just an always option...SLAs make sense since they are literally a spell, but supernatural abilities are so wide and varied that using a general table and blanket applying it will lead to a lot of weird things like monsters not having immunities or damage reduction because they didn’t explicitly spend a standard action to have them up. If it’s a matter of “having it active” it’s easily assumed he “turns it on” at the beginning of the day and then can freely choose his language as he goes.
This ability is also based on a Hex, by the same name, which is ALSO a standard action.

If, we assume it were always active, then in this example 'changing' languages would be the standard action, and considering he spent all day asleep, I don't think it would be fair to assume he did anything.
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Last edited by wodine; 07-09-2019 at 01:50 PM.
  #95  
Old 07-09-2019, 02:50 PM
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Last edited by Squeak; 07-09-2019 at 04:04 PM.
  #96  
Old 07-09-2019, 04:12 PM
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I disagree strongly with the ruling but I'll abide by it. I want to like Outplay so much, and I want to play so I'm dropping it.

Your disagreement is noted.

In the interest of fairness I will point out that you could change your choice of summons (assuming you don't edit your post to late) as you don't make a choice upon where/what is summoned until completion. So you could change it to a mammal but you probably won't find as potent a swimmer.
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Last edited by wodine; 07-09-2019 at 04:15 PM.
  #97  
Old 07-09-2019, 04:33 PM
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Last edited by Gaijin; 07-09-2019 at 04:34 PM.
  #98  
Old 07-09-2019, 06:19 PM
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  #99  
Old 07-09-2019, 06:37 PM
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Last edited by Squeak; 07-09-2019 at 06:46 PM.
  #100  
Old 07-09-2019, 07:32 PM
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Can I suggest that if we are going to stick to theater of the mind then we err on the side of the players?

SQUEAK- We will err on the side of the players if it is a borderline call, but we won’t ignore RAW because of an argument.

The feral speech issue is crystal clear and not for debate. There aren’t two sides of this. SU takes a standard action, per page 138. Taking it a step further, the witches hex of the same ability is a standard action.
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Last edited by Squeak; 07-09-2019 at 08:21 PM.
  #101  
Old 07-09-2019, 08:46 PM
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I was referring to the positioning. You are flat wrong about it being crystal clear and indisputable but I’ve already set that aside. “Theater of the mind” was your clue I was talking about the current stuff and not the stuff where I had already said “I disagree but let’s play.”

Squeak — Enough already, this is becoming exhausting.
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Last edited by Squeak; 07-09-2019 at 08:56 PM.
  #102  
Old 07-09-2019, 09:00 PM
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Then don’t bring it back up when it was finished and we were discussing something else.

To be clear...YOU brought it up and I refrained from many things I could have said. Let sleeping dogs lie and don’t punish me for your mistake in reading.
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  #103  
Old 07-09-2019, 09:16 PM
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Let me make this perfectly clear.

There is no wicked cabal of evil people plotting against you or the actions you take. There are no Ďplayers sidesí or ĎDMí sides or Ďjudgesí sides.

The actions were resolved as a stack. Alexander moved - and then he moved some more - and THEN haste was cast.

Iím sorry if you donít agree with that.

Iím sorry if you donít like that.

Iím sorry if you were confused by being allowed two rounds of actions instead of one.

However, it is done, and it is not changing.

Move on.

As far as the other thing. Continue moving on.

I am not going to discuss either of these issues again.
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  #104  
Old 07-09-2019, 09:21 PM
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Further complaining about the decisions of any GM will result in this thread being closed.

Any derogatory statement made towards any player, GM or Judge anywhere on this tournament will result in an RPGX infraction and ejection from the tournament.

Last edited by Squeak; 07-09-2019 at 09:25 PM.
  #105  
Old 07-09-2019, 09:32 PM
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So two rounds worth of actions were not taken in consecutive rounds? Because that was obviously very very unclear. I mean the three of us all acted under the round setup, using two rounds worth of actions as a prep and round one setup.

As I already did I will accept and move on...however please note how the ambiguity occurred so that we may avoid this going forward.

SQUEAK - Ambiguity occurred. Move on.

Scimmy - Already done, hence explaining how wires were crossed so it doesn’t happen again.
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Last edited by Scimmy; 07-09-2019 at 09:46 PM.
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