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Old Feb 20th, 2017, 12:49 PM
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Digorig 5e Learning Session

Alright, so let's get started on how to 5e.

What class and race are you considering?

What do you want to learn how to do?

What kind of format/setting do you want that would help you learn, or does that matter at all?
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Old Feb 20th, 2017, 03:48 PM
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First let me just thank you again for doing this! It is very appreciated. I started on a PC in my own thread and rolled ability there. Here is the link, or I can re-roll if you wish.

I also began to do a sheet for a Human Ranger and that is here for your viewing pleasure.

What I want to learn is everything. I would like to be able to NSPG them eventually.

Format/setting and pace is all you. I will follow your lead. Whatever will help me learn really.

DiG
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Old Feb 21st, 2017, 03:48 PM
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No prob, there's certainly a lack of 5e games where there should be some. Those stats look fine, and we're going for a Ranger? Nice. I assume that means you have access to the 5e Core rules?

All that in mind, tell me what you know is different from PF and what you think is different. That, or we can go where I assume you know nothing and you fill me in as we go along. Which sounds better?
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Old Feb 21st, 2017, 04:57 PM
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Yes to rules.

I have read some but still feel like I know almost nothing. Would it be simpler for you to start at the top, so to speak? Besides any review of what I may know is a good thing.
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Old Feb 21st, 2017, 09:34 PM
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I think the top would be a good idea. For that matter, since we're running a kind of simulation, do you want to build a whole party and run through that so you get all the various elements? Magic, all that jazz.

Do you want to start learning variant rules as well? Feats, Multiclassing, I'd mostly stick to the stuff in the PHB and not the stuff in the DMG or splatbooks.
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Old Feb 22nd, 2017, 10:47 AM
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Interesting idea and logical also. Maybe not a party as I don't think I could comprehend that much at one sitting - broken brain. However two might work. The Ranger class is good (I think) for ranged and Melee, so a caster also, likely a Cleric (my favorite class to run so I am better at it). Sound OK? I will roll up one.

On the variant rules, I am not sure. Again, I have limits on how much I can take in. A decision on that would be how much time you want to commit to this. The more we add, the longer it will take me to "get it." Are there some variants that are used more often? Maybe just those?

I seldom multi class so we can skip that for now. Besides once I learn the basics I should be OK with that.

DiG
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Old Feb 22nd, 2017, 06:31 PM
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PC Links, both WIP:

Newton the Newbie Human Ranger 1

Selina the Student Elf Cleric 1
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Old Feb 22nd, 2017, 06:37 PM
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Dice Roll:
4d6 5, 4, 4, 2 Total = 15

Dice Roll:
4d6 6, 6, 4, 3 Total = 19

Dice Roll:
4d6 1, 5, 5, 1 Total = 12

Dice Roll:
4d6 4, 3, 1, 2 Total = 10

Dice Roll:
4d6 2, 5, 3, 2 Total = 12

Dice Roll:
4d6 5, 4, 4, 5 Total = 18

----------------------------
5, 4, 4, 2 = 13
6, 6, 4, 3 = 16
1, 5, 5, 1 = 11
4, 3, 1, 2 = 9
2, 5, 3, 2 = 10
5, 4, 4, 5 = 14

Dice Gold x 10:
5d4 4, 2, 3, 4, 4 Total = 17
=170 gp
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Old Feb 22nd, 2017, 08:24 PM
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Feats are only sometimes used and only by the people who ask for it, most DMs just assume the default is "I don't care" but makes no assumptions.

Alright, that in mind, I'm going to do this in chunks, to keep it simple. We'll do Attributes/Saves/Skills first, and for this part remain strictly pre-combat, just to cover some basic concepts.

You know the six Attributes, but unlike past editions, they get used themselves as something other than a number that plays into a gigantic algorithm (meaning you'd only ever see Strength used in PF when you attacked, used a Skill, etc., and then only as one of many factors). We'll get back to that in a second.

Saving Throws are largely the same; certain spells demand a Saving Throw, as do certain activities, but what differs here is that instead of three condensed Saving Throws, each Attribute can be a Saving Throw. A spell that saps your strength? Why roll a Fortitude save when you can roll a Strength save? A Save is your Attribute modifier, most of the time, except when your Class grants you Proficiency (a point we'll get to in the next post) and thus an extra bonus. So, for Newton, you have Strength and Dexterity checked; that means he applies his Proficiency (hereafter Prof) bonus to those saves, making them +5. If he did not have Prof in that, his Save would be +3. Saving Throws function largely the same.

Skills are similar. Greatly condensed from past editions, including 4e, Skills are a basic subset of information and are not always used as they are. Your Class, your Background, and your Race all grant you Proficiency in Skills, which means you apply your Proficiency Bonus to what is otherwise an Attribute check. So, for Animal Handling, since Newton has a Prof in it, he makes a Wisdom check and adds +2. If your character does not have a Proficiency in a specific skill, your DM asks you to make a Skill save and you instead roll the appropriate Attribute; if you don't have the Skill, you can still make the check. So, if dopey Bob the Commoner is told something of magical importance, if he gets a Nat 20 on an Intelligence check to know that magic, even though he's not proficient in Arcana, he makes the Check. Everyone knows a little something about something, after all.

I tried to keep it simple; do you follow so far? Ask questions as appropriate.
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Old Feb 22nd, 2017, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassafrass View Post
Feats are only sometimes used and only by the people who ask for it, most DMs just assume the default is "I don't care" but makes no assumptions.
So Feats are a variant? It looks like they are replaced by tool proficiencies, personality traits, ideals, bonds and flaws.

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You know the six Attributes, but unlike past editions, they get used themselves as something other than a number that plays into a gigantic algorithm (meaning you'd only ever see Strength used in PF when you attacked, used a Skill, etc., and then only as one of many factors). We'll get back to that in a second.
Just to be clear, we are still talking about the ability MOD, right? Not the actual score being used?

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Saving Throws are largely the same; certain spells demand a Saving Throw, as do certain activities, but what differs here is that instead of three condensed Saving Throws, each Attribute can be a Saving Throw. A spell that saps your strength? Why roll a Fortitude save when you can roll a Strength save? A Save is your Attribute modifier, most of the time, except when your Class grants you Proficiency (a point we'll get to in the next post) and thus an extra bonus. So, for Newton, you have Strength and Dexterity checked; that means he applies his Proficiency (hereafter Prof) bonus to those saves, making them +5. If he did not have Prof in that, his Save would be +3. Saving Throws function largely the same.
So there are 6 saves (attributes) instead of 3. I assume the spell/trap/etc. tells you what one to use.

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Skills are similar. Greatly condensed from past editions, including 4e, Skills are a basic subset of information and are not always used as they are. Your Class, your Background, and your Race all grant you Proficiency in Skills, which means you apply your Proficiency Bonus to what is otherwise an Attribute check. So, for Animal Handling, since Newton has a Prof in it, he makes a Wisdom check and adds +2. If your character does not have a Proficiency in a specific skill, your DM asks you to make a Skill save and you instead roll the appropriate Attribute; if you don't have the Skill, you can still make the check. So, if dopey Bob the Commoner is told something of magical importance, if he gets a Nat 20 on an Intelligence check to know that magic, even though he's not proficient in Arcana, he makes the Check. Everyone knows a little something about something, after all.
Are NAT 1's and 20's always fumbles and crits in 5e or an optional rule?

So you get Profs from Race, class and Background. Backgrounds are now taken from the PHB (not made up by the player) but can be tweaked? Items replaced 1 for 1.

What do you do when say a trait or Prof is duplicated (say Background and Class)? Just pick a different one? Do they stack?

I will select backgrounds and add them to my sheets next.
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Old Feb 22nd, 2017, 09:51 PM
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  • On Feats: Kind of, yes. The proficiencies (which no one really bothers checking but they're still there) more or less cover those. Feats grant additional bonuses to stats and such, but at a price: you take a Feat instead of receiving your Attribute bonus. Since most Feats give you an Attribute bonus anyway, it's a moot point
  • On Mods: Yes, to clarify.
  • On Saves: Exactly. Spells and traps tell you which should be rolled.
  • Misc: Nat 20 and 1 are automatic in this and are not written as an Optional rule. You don't confirm them, they're already confirmed, but otherwise they work the same. Attacks of Opportunity are slightly different (and called Opportunity Attacks for whatever reason) and we'll get to that later.

    Prof comes from character level/class level, yes. Each PC gets a Prof bonus determined by level, and all classes have the same bonus at the same time, in 5 level increments. It starts at +2 and goes up from there. Backgrounds can come from the PHB, from supplements, or can be completely made up, but it is the DM's choice on how to handle Skill Prof and Background Features. You can tweak them accordingly and with a willing DM, switch out Features for one another, or even Flaws/Bonds/etc.

    If a Class, Background, or Race create a duplication of a Skill (often Perception), you either choose a different one or you deal with it. There is no stacking; it's a static Proficiency bonus. Note that some things like Race and Background don't allow you to pick, really, they just grant you Skills. Class is where the versatility of Skills comes from. So, if you take a Background that grants you Athletics and Medicine, a Race that gives you Perception, and a Class that lets you choose two between Arcana, Medicine, Nature, Insight, and Perception, it's in your best interest to do Race and Background first, then do Class for Skills.
Sounds good, we'll move on from there once you're done with questions, and ask away. Clarity is a dish best served liberally.
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Old Feb 22nd, 2017, 10:46 PM
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OK, I think so far I am good. Perhaps look at the two sheets? I have background, traits, Skills and gear all added now. Weapons and armor, cleric has diety and domain (just 1).

Do the traits, Bonds, Flaws and Ideals do anything besides RP flavor? i.e. do they affect any stats?

In adding Weapons and Armor I read about some changes. Two-weapon fighting, Ranged ranges.
Do you still add STR bonus to Melee damage? What about ranged damage?

Is Masterwork gone?

Advantage/Disadvantage is rolling 2 die or 1? How/who determines that?

I think the sheets are near done. What I don't know:

Death Saves
Inspiration (optional?)
HD Spent
Cleric: Spells K/M/P (still need to select spells)

All spells have the SAME DC?

That's all for now.

D.
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Old Feb 23rd, 2017, 09:38 AM
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The sheets check out, I'm checking them before every post as we're going forward.

Traits/Bonds/Ideals/Flaws are all tied to Inspiration, which is a fairly new mechanic. Basically it's a way to guarantee you get some RP into your RPG, even from those who don't want it. The purpose of Inspiration is the same as Hero Points, but they're not optional. If you roleplay one of your Background aspects (T/B/I/F), to the satisfaction of your DM, they grant you Inspiration. You can spend that Inspiration at any time to do a certain number of things, such as gain Advantage on a roll, get some important info off-handedly, etc. etc. Some of that is RAW, some of that is me giving my RAI. More on Dis/advantage in a moment.

Strength still goes into Melee damage, unless you have a weapon that has Finesse, then you can choose to add Dex instead. Ranged damage is almost always Dex, and you do actually add Dex to damage in this edition. I can't think of an exception to the Dex only, but that doesn't mean that an exception doesn't exist. There are more changes on weapons a little later, but we'll get to that when we go over combat and such.

Masterwork is gone, yes. They simplified that system entirely, thank the divinities.

Adv/Disadvantage is a new mechanic, previously mentioned. What you do is that when you have one or the other (you can never have both), you roll two dice on a roll, be it a check, an attack, a save, whatever. When you do so, if you have Advantage, you take the higher of the two rolls. If you have Disadvantage, you take the lower. It's a pretty cool system, if underused altogether. This is determined by things like Spells, monster Abilities, Class Abilities, situations, etc. Basically an effect will inform the GM/DM on that front, or the spells of others will inform you. You as the player do need to be aware of it, however.

So, the things you don't know:

Death Saves are a new mechanic to replace the weird death systems of previous editions. Once you reach 0 HP, you go down to Dying. When you do, when it comes to be your turn again, you roll 1d20 and add nothing to it. 1-10, you add a check to the Death category. 11-20, you add a check to the Save category. You do this every time, until you get either 3 Deaths, or 3 Saves. If you get 3 saves, you go back to 1 HP and you're back in the game; if you get 3 deaths, well... you know. Certain things can affect this. If you're healed, you automatically go to whatever HP you got back and stop the process. If someone attacks you while doing this, you gain 1 Death check automatically. If you Crit on a 20, you gain 2 Saves, if you crit on a 1, you gain 2 Death. It's a pretty cool mechanic.

Inspiration is not really an optional rule, but you can treat it that way.

HD Spent is a pretty cool mechanic. Obviously your Class gives you a Hit Die; d6, d8, d10, d12. When you are not in combat, you can use this to gain a kind of Healing Surge (the 4e mechanic) to get back HP. You roll your hit die and add your Constitution modifier and gain back that much HP. As you level up, you gain additional HD to spend. So, say you're a level 5 Fighter with a 16 Con, you have 5d10 to spend, and add +3 to each roll (don't quote me on the +3 part, I'm working without access to my PHB or Core Rules). You can use these up to your max HD, to which afterwards you regain this ability after a Long Rest (the Rest system we'll get to later).

I'll get to the Spells part in my next post, I'm at work and my free time just ran out. And yes, all Spells have the same DC unless you have a class or race ability that says otherwise.

More after work.
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Old Feb 23rd, 2017, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassafrass View Post
The sheets check out, I'm checking them before every post as we're going forward.
Alright. Do you want me to give you edit rights for them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassafrass View Post
Traits/Bonds/Ideals/Flaws are all tied to Inspiration, which is a fairly new mechanic. Basically it's a way to guarantee you get some RP into your RPG, even from those who don't want it. The purpose of Inspiration is the same as Hero Points, but they're not optional. If you roleplay one of your Background aspects (T/B/I/F), to the satisfaction of your DM, they grant you Inspiration. You can spend that Inspiration at any time to do a certain number of things, such as gain Advantage on a roll, get some important info off-handedly, etc. etc. Some of that is RAW, some of that is me giving my RAI. More on Dis/advantage in a moment.
What is RAI?

OK. That makes some sense and I think I like the idea – mostly. So playing your character as it was developed gets you free stuff. Very cool. I will look for a list (if there is one) of what Inspiration points get you. Do you start with 0? DM option?

Sounds like it gives the DM more “legal” discretion than other systems where we just did that anyway, sort of.

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Strength still goes into Melee damage, unless you have a weapon that has Finesse, then you can choose to add Dex instead. Ranged damage is almost always Dex, and you do actually add Dex to damage in this edition. I can't think of an exception to the Dex only, but that doesn't mean that an exception doesn't exist. There are more changes on weapons a little later, but we'll get to that when we go over combat and such.

Masterwork is gone, yes. They simplified that system entirely, thank the divinities.
OK. Starting to really like this. Simple is good and it sure seems like they went that way – but not just by dumbing it down. That was always (for me) the challenge with 3.5 and PF – the exceptions; way too many in my opinion.

I did see/read Finesse as well as Light, heavy and two handed, etc. I am reading the items as I/we get to them, not just relying on you to school me. I have to do both and a few times each. My finesse on Newton is no help: STR and DEX are both +3.

I will update the damage for all weapons after this post. ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassafrass View Post
Adv/Disadvantage is a new mechanic, previously mentioned. What you do is that when you have one or the other (you can never have both), you roll two dice on a roll, be it a check, an attack, a save, whatever. When you do so, if you have Advantage, you take the higher of the two rolls. If you have Disadvantage, you take the lower. It's a pretty cool system, if underused altogether. This is determined by things like Spells, monster Abilities, Class Abilities, situations, etc. Basically an effect will inform the GM/DM on that front, or the spells of others will inform you. You as the player do need to be aware of it, however.
So you have Advantage, Disadvantage or neither on all (most) rolls. Only d20 rolls? What about damage rolls? The roll (spell, skill, etc) tells you which of the three it is. There can be only one.

I think I read that there can also be situational Adv/Dis by the DM, is that right? If you do NOT have either for say a Diplomacy check (whatever that is here, likely intimidation?) but the party has one wounded bag guy surrounded, the DM can give the roll Advantage just because. Is that correct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassafrass View Post
So, the things you don't know:

Death Saves are a new mechanic to replace the weird death systems of previous editions. Once you reach 0 HP, you go down to Dying. When you do, when it comes to be your turn again, you roll 1d20 and add nothing to it. 1-10, you add a check to the Death category. 11-20, you add a check to the Save category. You do this every time, until you get either 3 Deaths, or 3 Saves. If you get 3 saves, you go back to 1 HP and you're back in the game; if you get 3 deaths, well... you know. Certain things can affect this. If you're healed, you automatically go to whatever HP you got back and stop the process. If someone attacks you while doing this, you gain 1 Death check automatically. If you Crit on a 20, you gain 2 Saves, if you crit on a 1, you gain 2 Death. It's a pretty cool mechanic.
So no more save to stabilize or unconscious at 0 and dead an -10? Got it... I think. LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassafrass View Post
Inspiration is not really an optional rule, but you can treat it that way.
OK, Like Hero points were an option. Got it (FYI I always used Hero Points and feel like I would always use Inspiration).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassafrass View Post
HD Spent is a pretty cool mechanic. Obviously your Class gives you a Hit Die; d6, d8, d10, d12. When you are not in combat, you can use this to gain a kind of Healing Surge (the 4e mechanic) to get back HP. You roll your hit die and add your Constitution modifier and gain back that much HP. As you level up, you gain additional HD to spend. So, say you're a level 5 Fighter with a 16 Con, you have 5d10 to spend, and add +3 to each roll (don't quote me on the +3 part, I'm working without access to my PHB or Core Rules). You can use these up to your max HD, to which afterwards you regain this ability after a Long Rest (the Rest system we'll get to later).
Completely lost here. I tried 4e about 7 years ago, tried to play once and did not finish because, well, it sucked. I have no clue what Healing Surge is.

OK, so while resting (whatever that actually means) you can roll your HD+CON and recover HP's. Does this replace the 8 hours rest = 1 HP gain? If so that's awesome.

I don't get additional HD to spend at all, sorry. Will read it in the PHB.

Quote:
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I'll get to the Spells part in my next post, I'm at work and my free time just ran out. And yes, all Spells have the same DC unless you have a class or race ability that says otherwise.

More after work.
Sound great. Thanks again for all this. I know its a big hunk of your time and I really appreciate it. You have no idea. Please let me know if I can do anything to make it easier for you on my end.

DiG

*** Edit. On Selina my STR is 9, a mod of -1. Does that make my Mace Damage D6-1?
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Old Feb 23rd, 2017, 09:19 PM
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RAI is Rules as Interpreted. Sometime the RAW aren't clear, and RAI is required. Typically a DM determines if you start with it or gain it later. The nice thing about Inspiration is that either you have it, or you don't. There's no in-between.

Most rolls will lack Adv/Dis. Most are the neither category, as you've said. There are situational events, such as, say, rocks falling and everyone maybe sort of needing to roll to prevent dying. if you're in square A6, you may have advantage because you're covered by a tree branch that will take most of the hit for you, while B9, being completely out in the open, has neither. The player on C2, however, has Dis because their leg is in a bear trap.

Adv/Dis only applies to your d20 rolls, not to any other die.

Right, on stability and such. You get to 0, you're dying, and if you roll 11+ 3 times, you wake up. Roll 10- 3 times, you die. Pretty straight forward, and it keeps the tension up for the PC, who otherwise would be sitting there bored out of their mind if no one can come heal them.

It does replace the 8 hours of rest=1 HP thing. About 8 hours of rest is a Long rest, so that's super useful. Ignore all the 4e stuff, since that frame of reference doesn't work. Basically you can regain health like having a second wind in real life. The additional die means at level 2, you have 2d10 HD to roll to get health back. The additional die is directly related to your level. So, a level 8 Wizard has 8d6 to roll to get back HP between Rests. A level 2 Barbarian has 2d12. That's the additional HD part. Sorry I wasn't clear on that.

To your final point, Selina does now have 1d6-1 on the mace damage a la Str.

To your question about Spells from last time:

Spells aren't dissimilar from PF, the only major difference is that all casters get Cantrips, and all Cantrips are treated as Spells Known. So, instead of getting to choose which Cantrips you prepare every day, you know a specific amount that are kind of innate. You can cast them willy-nilly. Levels 1-9, though, you have to Prepare. Every day when you take a Long Rest, you can reprepare Spells. It's pretty much exactly like PF. Classes that are Spells Known inform you of such (outside of Cantrips, that is), so otherwise assume that they're a Prepared/Memorized class. At level 1, Selina should know 3 Cantrips and have prepared 2 level 1 spells.

DC is something of a departure. Unlike 3e/PF, which started at base 10, they start at 8 for 5e to scale things down. You start at 8, add your Prof modifier, and then add your Ability mod that your class uses. So, a Level 2 Bard with 16 Cha's DC looks like this:

8 Base+2 Prof+3 CHA mod=13 DC.

This DC applies for all spells, regardless of what scores they affect, and as mentioned, unless you have a specific ability that changes the DC, it is static. The only way to increase your DC is to have your Prof mod go up or your Ability mod. Naturally, over time, your DC will go up from leveling up, but slowly. This is how 5e attempts to prevent casters from getting ridiculously powerful. You will almost never see something with a DC of 20 or above before level 12.

On that note, let's talk Proficiency.

Your Class Proficiency, listed by class, is your BAB, your Spell DC mod, and what you apply to Saves and Skills you're "proficient" in. All of these mechanics have been simplified into a basic system. So, at level 1, your Proficiency is +2. That means +2 to attacks, +2 to Skills you're Proficient with, +2 to your Class Saving Throws, +2 to Spell DC, aaand I think that's it. Proficiency only goes up every 4 levels, between 1 and 20, so that means it slowly climbs from +2 to +6. Off the top of my head, I can think of no class that doesn't follow this system.

Alright, Spells and Proficiency are enough for now. Any questions concerning those?
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