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  #2401  
Old Sep 25th, 2018, 05:42 AM
Auron3991 Auron3991 is offline
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Tenser's Floating Disk questions:

1. How does it handle forces from directions other than up, such as someone pressing on it from beneath? Does it count all forces against the weight limit or would it track them separately?

2. How does it handle instantaneous forces, such as a weapon strike? I would assume a Great Wyrm Dragon striking a TFD from a Lv 1 would exceed weight capacity, but game mechanics don't seem to provide options for this.
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  #2402  
Old Sep 25th, 2018, 09:25 AM
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It doesn't specify defenses or HP or anything, so I'm not sure it can be destroyed by trauma. I'd argue that if it gets pushed or attacked it would get knocked back then slowly make its back back into place.

So to your first question, I guess it depends on what the caster had in mind. Did they cast it upside down to try and plug a hole? Did they try to use it to prevent a door from being opened? Are they trying to lift the stuff onto a ledge? The way I would rule it is that by default it's cast pointing up and can carry the specified amount. Forces from other directions affect it as if it were a weight magnet that gets pulled to the correct location over a period relative to the force applied.

At the end of the day I'd say it comes down to DM fiat, or whatever makes sense in the game, but I would applaud creative uses instead of trying to prevent them, as it makes the game more interesting. Maybe when the wyrm strikes it it spins and flings whatever it's holding everywhere before eventually resetting, and there are rules for damaging items that could come into play.

As to the weight capacity, there doesn't seem to be an indication as to what happens when you go over, but I assume it sinks to the ground and becomes unable to move.
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  #2403  
Old Sep 25th, 2018, 09:28 AM
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@Dirkoth: To your question, I'm not sure there's a clear answer one way the other. I tried to look for existing rulings but none of them mention that use case.
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  #2404  
Old Sep 25th, 2018, 04:33 PM
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dirkoth, you are correct that it does not have enough clarity.
Does this spell destroy the ground underneath the wizard if it is cast normally?
The spell specifies the bottom half is 'usually' occluded by the ground. Otherwise the mage would be standing on the sphere - layer of ground destroyed > gravity pushes what the mages is standing on down > that layer is destroyed > etc.
How is "floor surface" defined in this instance?
In the instance of the stairs?
I think that 'floor surface' is defined by the mind of the mage.

As with many of these, it will depend on the GM and/or discussion with the GM. Are spells arcane formulae that have an exact effect everytime? Do they have any adjustment to the casters will? Can the caster make small adjustments (this is the one I allow) with Spellcraft checks?

-----
For floating disk, I would refer to wall of force as a starting point, and 'tricks' as a supplemental.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wall of Force
...A wall of force can be damaged by spells as normal, except for disintegrate, which automatically destroys it. It can be damaged by weapons and supernatural abilities, but a wall of force has hardness 30 and a number of hit points equal to 20 per caster level. Contact with a sphere of annihilation or rod of cancellation instantly destroys a wall of force...
Shorthand: hardness 30, 20hp/caster level.
It is a lower levels spell, so GM might rule 20/10.

At caster level 5, a dragon would need to do 130 damage to destroy it in one hit.

As for holding power when pushed up...the base would be the same 100 lbs/caster level. If gravity changed, the spell still theoretically supports the same. If the GM uses normal physics on top of magic physics, any weight currently held by the disk on the other side would add to what needed to be lifted.

Overweight, I would also assume it drops to the ground.

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  #2405  
Old Sep 25th, 2018, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auron3991 View Post
Tenser's Floating Disk questions:

1. How does it handle forces from directions other than up, such as someone pressing on it from beneath? Does it count all forces against the weight limit or would it track them separately?

2. How does it handle instantaneous forces, such as a weapon strike? I would assume a Great Wyrm Dragon striking a TFD from a Lv 1 would exceed weight capacity, but game mechanics don't seem to provide options for this.
No good rules, and I wouldn't want to make is such an invulnerable piece of shaped force by saying it ignores strikes and efforts to move, but it implies that it does.

In pathfinder, there are some tricks you can do (riding it, using it as a shield, etc.), so there are SOME movements and actions it can do, beside float along behind you.

In general, I would say that it handles forces from above and below without disturbance up to the limit of weight (by caster level). Ie, a bird landing on it wouldn't make it move, a dragon landing on it, would. Same for something gushing up below... no effect until the force exerted would be enough to lift the maximum weight allowance (regardless of actual weight in the disk), at which point, it would lift (exceed three foot from the floor) and dissipate.

Same for a sword blow, mace, etc.. You might tip over a low level casting, but not a higher level casting.
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  #2406  
Old Jan 14th, 2020, 09:54 PM
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Hi everyone! Quick PF rules question here about totemic druids. Their altered Wild Shape ability states that they can turn into their non-totem animal at -2 level and into their totem at +2. I just want to make sure I understand this correctly. Is the over-all wild shape ability delayed until 6 or do druids still get it at 4 and the alteration only starts taking effect at 6?
I answered my own question but since no one got to it in time I'm replacing it. Do druids using the Goliath archetype progress their standard wild shape as normal, only substituting giant forms for elemental and plant shape? The entry for Wild Shape under Goliath doesn't mention gaining Huge, Large, Tiny, or Diminutive animals.

Last edited by Librarian; Jan 15th, 2020 at 10:25 AM.
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  #2407  
Old Jan 17th, 2020, 12:50 PM
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The only animals allowed are dinosaurs and megafauna. The size allowed is based on the original progression.
Dinosaur: Med - 4th, Small/Large - 6th, Dim/Huge - 8th.
Megafauna: Small/Med - 8th, Large - 10th, Huge - 12th

The rest of their wildshape is humanoid sizes, using the giant shape.

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  #2408  
Old Feb 15th, 2020, 11:06 PM
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My interpretation of this article here is that thrush and raven familiars can use wands without an extra feat. If they want to wear rings or gloves, they have to take the Extra Item feat. Is this a correct interpretation?
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  #2409  
Old Feb 16th, 2020, 07:41 PM
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Thrush and raven familiars can carry wands, but they cannot use them:
Quote:
No animal, plant, or vermin companions can wield weapons or activate magic items, with the exception of the imp granted by the diabolist prestige class,
Thrush and raven familiars can wear rings, but not gloves.
Quote:
Avian* (armor, belt, chest, eyes, headband, neck, ring, wrist)
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Last edited by jj_wolven; Feb 16th, 2020 at 07:41 PM.
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  #2410  
Old Feb 16th, 2020, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jj_wolven View Post
No animal, plant, or vermin companions can wield weapons or activate magic items, with the exception of the imp granted by the diabolist prestige class,
This piece is referring to animal companions. The blurb about familiars is further up. The relevant piece is that, without taking a feat, avian familiars can hold a wand in their claws. Ravens and thrushes can also speak a language.

Edit: That said, I skipped an entire paragraph that listed specifically which familiars can use wands. Ravens and thrushes aren't on it.
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Last edited by Librarian; Feb 16th, 2020 at 08:55 PM.
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  #2411  
Old Apr 22nd, 2020, 05:24 AM
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Scrolls questions:
1-Can someone decipher a scroll for another caster? Say, a player with read magic deciphers the scroll in the dungeon and hands it over/explains it to another player with the spell on his list but without read magic. This would also be the case for purchased scrolls for example.

2-Can say a level 2 Paladin or a Ranger below level 4 (which is when they get spellcasting), cast a spell on their list from a scroll by passing a spellcaster check as if it were (4-2) 2 caster levels above them? (Assuming it is a spell they could normally cast at level 4. The class rules say a paladin has no caster level before level 4, so I am guessing maybe not.)

3- Does using spellcraft to decipher a scroll require the casting of detect magic?
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Last edited by Alex1983; Apr 22nd, 2020 at 05:25 AM.
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  #2412  
Old Apr 22nd, 2020, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex1983 View Post
Scrolls questions:
1-Can someone decipher a scroll for another caster? Say, a player with read magic deciphers the scroll in the dungeon and hands it over/explains it to another player with the spell on his list but without read magic. This would also be the case for purchased scrolls for example.
RAW, I'm pretty sure your answer is going to be "no". It's not a matter of knowing what's on the scroll. It's a matter of literally reading it. The person using the scroll can do it in advance, but they need to Read Magic or Spellcraft DC 20+spell level as a full-round action at some point prior to the actual activation (including immediately beforehand).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex1983 View Post
2-Can say a level 2 Paladin or a Ranger below level 4 (which is when they get spellcasting), cast a spell on their list from a scroll by passing a spellcaster check as if it were (4-2) 2 caster levels above them? (Assuming it is a spell they could normally cast at level 4. The class rules say a paladin has no caster level before level 4, so I am guessing maybe not.)
From the Core Rulebook/Player's Handbook (identical wording): Through 3rd level, a ranger has no caster level.

That's not "caster level zero". That's "no caster level". They aren't a spellcaster, thus none of the spells are on their list. Casting the spell from the scroll by the normal Use Magic Device means and additionally emulating a caster level is your route.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex1983 View Post
3- Does using spellcraft to decipher a scroll require the casting of detect magic?
The writing on a scroll must be deciphered before a character can use it or know exactly what spell it contains. This requires a read magic spell or a successful Spellcraft check (DC 20 + spell level). Deciphering a scroll is a full-round action.

No Detect Magic.
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  #2413  
Old Apr 23rd, 2020, 04:45 AM
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So this applies for purchased scrolls too? The buyer needs to decipher them on his own?
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  #2414  
Old Apr 23rd, 2020, 09:32 AM
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Identifying and deciphering a scroll are two separate things. The creator/seller of a scroll can tell you what's on it, and you can generally trust them that it's true. You could, alternatively, use an established method of identification to verify this. Separately, to use the scroll, the nitty-gritty of the method of completing the spell trigger needs to be deciphered in order to actually cast the spell. That needs to be done by the individual seeking to cast it.
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  #2415  
Old Apr 23rd, 2020, 09:49 AM
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It certainly makes read magic and spellcraft much more valuable then.
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