[OOC] Tavern Talk

[soultek]

A place where we can do most of the banter with regards to almost anything about the game

[ShadowcatX]

The grim n gritty method seems vicious.

I'm curious about opinions from the group, what do you think would be a more important stat on a front line character wearing light armor, dexterity or constitution. Normally I'd say constitution and think nothing else about it, but with armor not increasing armor class, and dexterity acting as both "you can't hit me" and as virtual damage reduction (since if they don't hit you as good you don't take as much damage) I think dexterity might be more important for survivability. (Ignoring, of course, initiative which is another mark in dexterity's favor.)

[ShadowcatX]

Just noticed that strength isn't added directly to damage. (Its added to damage through being part of the attack roll which is then added to damage.) Given that it seems weapon finesse is a much stronger option, allowing the dumping of strength altogether which makes dexterity even more important. This also makes power attack a worse option since you would normally add 2 to damage at only -1 to hit now its -1 to hit (which means -1 to damage if you hit) for +2 to damage.

Am I missing anything?

Also do you add 1.5 your strength modifier when wielding a 2 handed weapon to the attack roll?

[soultek]

Nah, I was the one missed to indicate that STR bonus is still added to the DMG. STR modifers when wielding weapons off-hand and two handed remain the same as in the core.

[ShadowcatX]

So strength is added to damage twice, once in the attack roll (because a higher to hit increases damage directly), once in the damage roll? I'm not certain that's a good idea.

On the other hand it does let weapon finese builds work fairly well while not invalidating strength. That i do like. . . Grim n gritty is right.

[kextor]

Just read the rules. Neat! It's like Cyberpunk, only in Fantasy! Except...wait. I'm an artificer. Hmmm....construct arm....with a fireball wand....tehe. Never mind. It's not LIKE Cyberpunk; it IS Cyberpunk. Or at least it will be when I get through with it.

<ducks DM wrath>

On a serious note, someone in heavy armor is going to be tough to kill. Contrary to the popular Swords/Sorcery belief, attacking a man in full plate when you're not wearing armor is VERY dangerous, mobility or no. He just has to hit you...once. Whereas you might have to dance around him for a bit looking for an opening. Oh, and knights were far more maneuverable in their armor than people think. They wore it ALL the time...while training. So they were running in their armor, dodging their armsmasters in their armor, practicing with their greatswords...in their armor. You get the idea. A medieval knight was a wall of muscle, and would be able to maneuver quite well in his armor. And God forbid you catch him without it. He would be unbelievably fast and mobile, though hindered somewhat by his training, since he is likely trained to take blows on his armor, rather than wasting effort dodging them.

[kextor]

@soultek: Are we using Eberron or PF races? Ditto for classes, 'cause APG in PF has an Artificer.

[soultek]

@ShadowcatX
The original GnG rules no longer needed to re-add the STR bonus since hp was determined in different manner that resulted in very low hp even at high levels. I'll be posting a set of new and revised feats in a while so hopefully things would be clearer by then.

@Kextor
DM's wrath not working right now due to nice buzz from extremely caffeinated coffee so your character survives for now.
You could even try binding an earth (metal) elemental to your armor then wrap it with a fire elemental just for the heck of it.

Both the PF and Eberron races are okay. You could even dip into the races from other campaigns, but you would really need to have a good background to fit it in. Just inform me of your decision. And before I forget, please make sure you can RP the races to the hilt.

As for the classes, all PF Core/APG classes are available.

On a serious note, someone in heavy armor is going to be tough to kill. Contrary to the popular Swords/Sorcery belief, attacking a man in full plate when you're not wearing armor is VERY dangerous, mobility or no. He just has to hit you...once. Whereas you might have to dance around him for a bit looking for an opening. Oh, and knights were far more maneuverable in their armor than people think. They wore it ALL the time...while training. So they were running in their armor, dodging their armsmasters in their armor, practicing with their greatswords...in their armor. You get the idea. A medieval knight was a wall of muscle, and would be able to maneuver quite well in his armor. And God forbid you catch him without it. He would be unbelievably fast and mobile, though hindered somewhat by his training, since he is likely trained to take blows on his armor, rather than wasting effort dodging them.

Given your attack concentrates mainly on the armor and not trying to bypass the armor problem (via armor piercing stuff, find weak points, etc) then yes it would be difficult if not impossible at times to bring down a heavily armored foe. But then again you can do attacks that can put your armored foe at a disadvantage.

I fully agree with you and with your findings about the knights (I spent a good deal of time researching and understanding the ancient arms race years ago). Hence the roles of weapon type vs armor type and weapon quality in our combat system is pretty important. But I won't bother all our players with such detail. Those things will happen behind the scenes.

[Seraphym]

I have nearly finished Aax's sheet. It has been difficult to design an alcoholic, middle-aged barbarian that can still be an asset to the party but I (hopefully) managed to put something useful together (Note: his stats have been adjusted due to aging process.) I will flesh out his background a bit more over the next few days too.

Regarding his alcoholism, I think he should have some sort of mechanical element to his addiction. Something along the lines of the addictions discussed in Pathfinder GM Guide p. 236. Any ideas on whether the Moderate Addiction described here would be an appropriate penalty? Also, I want to buy some alcohol in his starting load-out but I am not quite sure how to go about it. When I first thought Aax up I pictured him swigging some sort of potent liquor from a hip-flask but the Core Rulebook only includes ale and wine. If I were to give him a gallon of ale (I don't imagine him being the wine-type ), would that come with its own container or would I need to put it in water-skins or something? How many drinks is in a gallon anyway? I am used to metric measurements...

[kextor]

@Seraphym: using the LOTR films as a genre-appropriate referent: "It comes in pints?" There are 8 pints to one gallon. So...8 drinks? Unless, soultek, it's one cup to one drink. In that case, it would be 16 drinks to a gallon.

Weekends are usually fairly busy, 'specially Sundays, where I run an IRL D&D session that usually goes from 2-10pm-ish. But my goal is set to have most of my character's mechanics done by tomorrow evening. Oh, and I'll just use the PF dwarf, fluff and all.

[ShadowcatX]

I'd really like to see the rules of the game before finalizing my character. Any idea when they'll be available?

[standalonepsycho]

Okay so I was looking intot he Grim n' Gritty combat system and I see here you are using a house variation.
So, HP is the same as core (based on hit die) but you are using the damage and defense system from grim and gritty?

[Roland of Gilead]

Ok I was out of town all weekend and just saw my invite. YAY. I will read all the stuff today and try to get my sheet up late tonight.

[soultek]

So, HP is the same as core (based on hit die) but you are using the damage and defense system from grim and gritty?

Something to that effect yes. Implementing and tweaking the HP RAW would be a tad time consuming and something that I did not really want to go into yet without making a revised GnG compatibility reference for Pathfinder that. But by not applying the HP system of GnG, I had to up the damage somewhat, and made some changes to the AC bonus provided by armor.

The Defense and Protection mechanics isn't really something new considering that there are various interpretations from several D20 sources on the matter. The damage system reflected my desire to add degrees of success and degrees of failure in combat. BTW there are rules regarding degrees of success and failure with skill checks. So things aren't just black and white anymore. Added complication? Yep, definitely but at the same time it does add that distinct flavor to the campaigns that I normally run.

[Roland of Gilead]

So basically you die any time you botch your defense roll and they do very well on their attack roll?