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Pick turn or rebuke & get 3+
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Get turn AND rebuke with shared 3+
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Get 3+ turn AND 3+ rebuke
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  #1  
Old Mar 27th, 2015, 12:35 AM
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Question about 3.5 Cleric. Help please

I have a character that can legitimately turn AND rebuke undead. Whether or not you agree with this being possible, please allow us to skip that debate as I've already been through it. It's legitimate.
Elemental DomainGranted Power: Turn or destroy [X Element] creatures as a good cleric turns undead. Rebuke, command, or bolster [Y Element] creatures as an evil cleric rebukes undead. Use these abilities a total number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier. This granted power is a supernatural ability.

Copy & paste from the PHB with the exception of removing element so it applies to any.


Now what I'm trying to figure out is what ability do I get? The reading is really thrown off in this situation.
I can rebuke & turn...
Does this mean I pick one & get the 3+?

Do I get both & have a single "pool" of elemental turn/rebuke attempts equal to 3+?

Or do I get 3+ turn AND 3+ rebuke attempts?

I honestly have no clue, I want to do this correctly & this is something off books because the books don't give a clear answer.
  #2  
Old Mar 27th, 2015, 12:51 AM
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I WELCOME discussion on this, I want to get as legitimate an answer as possible because I would like to ensure I do this correctly.
  #3  
Old Mar 30th, 2015, 07:14 PM
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I am sorry, but I must provide this info from the PHB as it (the PHB itself) does state that a cleric can not do both. You are either evil, or good. You can not be both, therefore cannot do both.

Quote:
page 160
Neutral Clerics and Undead
A cleric of neutral alignment can either turn undead but not rebuke them, or rebuke undead but not turn them. See Turn or Rebuke Undead, page 33, for more information.
Even if a cleric is neutral, channeling positive energy is a good act and channeling negative energy is evil.

Turning Other Creatures
Some clerics have the ability to turn creatures other than undead. For example, a cleric with the Fire domain can turn or destroy water creatures (as if he were a good cleric turning undead) and rebuke or command fire creatures (as if he were an evil cleric rebuking undead).
The "Turning Other Creatures" section is where the domains come in. If you choose fire domain, you can turn(good)/rebuke(evil) water elemental creatures. Water domain can turn(good)/rebuke(evil) fire creatures... etc.

The amount of uses you get = 3+charisma mod. No more, no less. You only get those number of uses for the 1 power you choose for your domain. 1 Good power OR 1 evil power - not - 1 good power AND 1 evil power.

The confusion seems to be stemming from the word and that I highlighted. But it is still saying "If you are good" or "If you are evil". It is poorly written.
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Last edited by Jerioke; Mar 30th, 2015 at 07:18 PM.
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Old Mar 30th, 2015, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dread Reaper View Post
I have a character that can legitimately turn AND rebuke undead. Whether or not you agree with this being possible, please allow us to skip that debate as I've already been through it. It's legitimate.
 
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Old Mar 30th, 2015, 07:40 PM
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No, the issue is I legitimately have the ability to turn AND rebuke & wonder how it applies. If you would be so kind as to adhere to the original request, which I highlighted for you with my last post, we can continue forward. Regardless of you believing the legitimacy of this claim, I have adhered to all the rules in the books & have a method of attaining both. Now since me attaining both turning & rebuking has nothing to do with the original post. Can we please revert to the original post?
Thank you
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Old Mar 30th, 2015, 08:18 PM
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So, it sounds like you've found an exploit. Awesome. I'll leave the legitimacy of the exploit to your DM.

The answer still remains. You have a pool of uses that is drawn from whenever you use either ability. So if you have a charisma mod of 3, than you have six uses available whether you turn or rebuke. So if you turn 3 times and rebuke 3 times, your uses have been exhausted.
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Old Mar 30th, 2015, 08:57 PM
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You didn't answer the question still
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Old Mar 30th, 2015, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
I can rebuke & turn...
Does this mean I pick one & get the 3+?

Do I get both & have a single "pool" of elemental turn/rebuke attempts equal to 3+?

Or do I get 3+ turn AND 3+ rebuke attempts?
Quote:
You have a pool of uses that is drawn from whenever you use either ability. So if you have a charisma mod of 3, than you have six uses available whether you turn or rebuke. So if you turn 3 times and rebuke 3 times, your uses have been exhausted.
I have answered the question. Since you claim that you can do both, you get both and you share the uses. If you accept that you can't do both, then you already know that you have to pick one and you still get the same number of uses. I answered with the assumption that you want to do both.

There is no way for you to have both and still get the maximum number of uses for both abilities... under the same charisma mod, you would not be able to cast 6 turns and 6 rebukes. You could cast 1 turn and 5 rebukes, 2 turns and 4 rebukes, 3 turns and 3 rebukes, etc etc. Anything else would end up being unbalanced.
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Last edited by Jerioke; Mar 30th, 2015 at 09:11 PM.
  #9  
Old Mar 30th, 2015, 09:11 PM
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Actually I have a separate 3+ Charisma modifier pool for each turn & rebuke
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Old Mar 30th, 2015, 09:28 PM
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I don't know what else there is to say, other than I hope your DM agrees with you. When it comes to me and my DM friends, I only allow something like this when a player can prove to me that it isn't broken, or will provide ample amounts of fun while not making our lives as DMs a living hell. After all, everyone should be able to have fun, right?

On a different note: I love your avatar. Sasuke is one of my favorite characters.
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Last edited by Jerioke; Mar 30th, 2015 at 09:31 PM.
  #11  
Old Mar 30th, 2015, 09:46 PM
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Honestly, for the intended purpose of the character, this is completely irrelevant, this was a curiosity. I regularly DM myself, currently DMing 2 games on here, but there are occasional grey areas in the game where I prefer to gather opinions as opposed to making a straight call on my own.

& thanks, I'm a fan of Narutoverse, & wanted a good animated avatar, this came top 5, the rest the files were too big for use, lol

Last edited by Dread Reaper; Mar 30th, 2015 at 09:48 PM.
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Old Mar 30th, 2015, 09:55 PM
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I understand. That's why I go to my DM friends for opinions. Their immediate response was the same as mine: it can't be done via the PHB; If it is being done through variant rules, then it needs limitations so that it is balanced.

If you've found some way of doing it through the PHB and subsequent official publications, it would be nice to have that reference. I'd like to know how you pulled it off. My primary experience is with 4e, not 3.5e. I have the resources, though.

I am heading to bed, though. So I probably won't see your response until tomorrow.

Cheers!
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Last edited by Jerioke; Mar 30th, 2015 at 09:56 PM.
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Old Mar 30th, 2015, 10:01 PM
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I have over 100 books & around the same with the magazines. But I only use 3.5. Played 4e, don't like it.

Strictly via PHB it is impossible.
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Old Mar 30th, 2015, 10:24 PM
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Old Mar 30th, 2015, 10:32 PM
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