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  #91  
Old Feb 10th, 2010, 07:43 PM
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In light of new revelations about the proficiencies system, I've made a few changes. I've also included an accounting of Achmed's proficiencies and how they were spent based on my current understanding of the house rules. Give that a look and tell me if it's correct. Also, do we get Midani (common) as a bonus language, or must we spend a proficiency slot on it?

 

Last edited by Uroboros; Feb 12th, 2010 at 01:39 AM.
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  #92  
Old Feb 11th, 2010, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uroboros View Post
Also, do we get Midani (common) as a bonus language, or must we spend a proficiency slot on it?
I just used a slot for reading/writing
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  #93  
Old Feb 11th, 2010, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kariel Lateef
Different stuff.
Everything looks fine, from the steppe pony to the magic items. Actually, I really like the two you came up with--very cool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uroboros
do we get Midani (common) as a bonus language, or must we spend a proficiency slot on it?
This is something I should have addressed long ago...I just never got around to it.

In this campaign, Midani effectively is Common. There is no "Common" of the standard D&D definition. I've always thought that the premise and concept of Common is ridiculous, and in my Al-Qadim world, there is no such thing as a mythical and unrealistic universal "trade language" that everyone somehow knows, be they a beggar from the streets of Huzuz or a Xaositect philosopher from Sigil.

That said, for the purposes of this campaign (which will with few exceptions be confined to Zakhara), Midani will "replace" Common. Midani is treated as Common for all game-rule purposes; it's the default language that all characters know how to read and write.

I'm going to logically assume that any genie who interacts with the world of Al-Qadim also speaks Midani rather than Common (if applicable); instances in which you guys end up on different planes will likely be the arabesque Inner Planes (and conversing with their arabesque inhabitants). On both the Inner Planes and Outer Planes, the elemental tongues and Abyssal, Infernal, and Celestial, will respectively be spoken. Only creatures who have good cause to know one (or more) of the countless Material Plane languages will do so.

Although I doubt this will be an issue, if it does come up I will be using "regional" languages for Faerun itself if you guys somehow end up there. For example, there will also be no "Common" in the rest of Abeir-Toril--people will speak Chondathan, or Mulhorandi, and so on.

Edit: This brings me to another important point, which converges with AlwaysCivilMike's question about languages and proficiencies. I should have said this a lot sooner, and this will probably result in some editing of character sheets: The # of Lang. only translates directly into the number of languages known when proficiences are not being used. This means that in order to learn languages other than a character's native tongue (which I will say is Midani and a racial language, if applicable), a character must spend nonweapons proficiency slots on the Modern Languages proficiency. Note that this proficiency only grants the ability to speak a modern (i.e. remaining in contemporary use) language; the Reading/Writing proficiency allows a character to read and write any modern language he knows how to speak; and the Ancient Languages proficiency allows a character to either read or write. Each acquisition of the Reading/Writing proficiency only applies to a single modern language. Remember that Modern Languages is a general NWP, while Ancient Languages and Reading/Writing belong to the Priest and Wizard groups. Also remember that a character never has to spend proficiency slots in order to either speak or read/write a native language.

I'll use Uroboros' character as an example to demonstrate both the Midani/Common thing and this game-rules languages thing:

As a half-orc, Orc(ish?) is treated as a native tongue, in addition to Midani. Thus, Achmed has the following NWPs for free: Modern Languages (Midani); Modern Languages (Orc); Reading/Writing (Midani); and Reading/Writing (Orc). Now, let's say Uroboros wants Achmed to also be able to speak Jannti. As a modern language, Jannti falls under the Modern Languages proficiency and is thus in the general group (and henceforth costing only one NWP slot regardless of class). So, he assigns one NWP slot to Modern Languages (Jannti). However, merely being able to converse with genies isn't enough for Uroboros: he wants Achmed to also have the ability to read Jannti as well, just in case. Reading/Writing is not a general proficiency, and thus he must spend two NWP slots to acquire Reading/Writing (Jannti). Now, Uroboros is also certain that Achmed will find it beneficial to be able to both read and write the ancient tongue of Kadari. He must spent two NWP slots to acquire Ancient Languages (Kadari [speak]) and another two slots to acquire Ancient Languages (Kadari [read/write]). I just came up with that format; I suppose Ancient Languages (Kadari) [oral] and [written] would work, or simply Ancient Languages: Kadari (whatever).

In the course of his character's travels, Uroboros is delighted when Achmed intercepts a secret dispatch sent from a human spy in the court of the caliph of Qudra to a janni who is stationed on Zakhara, and then forwarded to his employer, the Grand Sultan of the efreet himself. Eager to put his (until now) poorly-spent proficiency slots to use, Achmed finds that although the message is written in two different languages, he can still read it with ease. The first half is written in Midani, being a common shared language between a mortal Zakharan and a genie who frequents the Land of Fate (and treats with Zakharans). The second half of the message is in Jannti, the tongue naturally spoken between the two genies.

In my world, the elemental languages still exist and are used, but amongst genies, Jannti is pre-dominant. Ignan, for example, would pretty much only be spoken between two efreet, and it would probably only be employed when Jannti would be unfavorable.

Sorry if I've mislead you guys on this whole languages thing up until now, and I hope this clears everything up.
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  #94  
Old Feb 12th, 2010, 05:49 AM
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That clears up stuff, but what about me? I'm not from these parts.

Did I just magically learn Midani as soon as I got off from my ship?
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  #95  
Old Feb 12th, 2010, 12:37 PM
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Gex can also read scrolls and languages without knowing how to read and write, and can use size L pole arms even though he is size S, so why not?
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  #96  
Old Feb 12th, 2010, 12:52 PM
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Well, technically my read languages score is exactly 0% at the moment.

Edit: No wait, it's actually a whopping -10%! Who could've guessed?

Last edited by Chow; Feb 12th, 2010 at 01:16 PM.
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  #97  
Old Feb 12th, 2010, 04:03 PM
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Would it be unusual if Yezeed didn't read and write? I hadn't planned on him having that skill, didn't seem like something he would have bothered with. I got the impression that the Al-Badia would have a oral history tradition and reading and writing would not be a common skill for a warrior.
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  #98  
Old Feb 12th, 2010, 04:07 PM
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Well, in that case, Midani obvously can't be a native tongue for Gex.

Unless there's something else that would be appropriate, like Undercommon, I guess Kobold would be your only native language.

You'll need to learn Midani the hard way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Honorius
Gex can also read scrolls and languages without knowing how to read and write, and can use size L pole arms even though he is size S, so why not?
I don't think I'm exactly breaking the rules in Chow's favor or anything. As for the first thing--keep in mind that both Read Languages and Use Scrolls are extremely limited. It's not like I'm going to be allowing Gex to not spend any proficiency slots to read and then succeed on a Read Language roll every time, instead. Similarly, you can bet that when he tries to use a scroll and rolls the 25% chance of "reading incorrectly" and "reversing the spell's effect", there will be catastrophic results. Going by the text of the PHB, the Read Languages skill is intended to simulate some sort of "randomly collected bits of knowledge" and is independent of the ability to read or write. The fact that it says "if the character knows how to read a given language because he has spent a proficiency slot on it, this die roll is unnecessary for documents in that language" indicates to me that even a thief who can't read or write at all can make use of his "exposure to languages" and at least get the gist of a treasure map or secret message.

As for the lucerne hammer/polearm usage thing, I had completely forgotten to comment on that discussion as we moved on to other (seemingly more important) subjects. Anyway, I'm sorry, but there's no way a kobold an wield a "normal" polearm. Given the absence of rules to govern the adaptation of weapons from one size to another, I'm going to say that the closest you can get is basically having something that looks like a lucerne hammer but functions as a warhammer for game rules purposes.

I'm inclined to agree with everything Honorius said on this topic (at least in the edits; I can't remember what was there originally). The rules do explicitly say that for a Small creature, Medium weapons must be wielded with two hands, and that they simply can't wield a Large weapon (in fact, a polearm is even used as an example). I also agree with the poorly-constructed rules that determine that a S creature can't wield a one-handed B weapon, so I would definitely be open to making some sort of houseruled weapons to make up for that (basically just scale down the damage, speed factor, weight, and cost). However, I'm not too keen on houseruling a "smaller" version of a polearm with most of the additional special damage qualities. I won't bother discussing the other 5 varieties of polearms, and since bardiche doesn't have any special damage qualities, I'll only talk abot the lucerne hammer: It makes sense to keep the "double damage when firmly set to recieve a charge" on a scaled-down lucerne hammer--but if you really want to get that specific, logically the speed factor of such a weapon should be greater than that of a warhammer (wielded in two hands). I'd say that you could have a warhammer that just looks like a smaller lucerne hammer--but the problem is that the only real difference between the two weapons is the exaggerated length of the lucerne hammer's haft...in which case there would be a measurable difference in wielding it from a warhammer, especially for a Small creature. So, I'll allow a Small lucerne hammer and/or a Small bardiche with the following statistics:

Edit: See next post.

Explanations being that cost and weight should be about halved (rounded up where applicable); speed factor should remain the same (even though the weapons themselves are much smaller, they're still proprtional to the Small character wielding them--and if anything, given the nature of muscle mass, if anything they should actally have a larger speed factor for a Small character); and damage should be slightly higher than that of a warhammer, but less than that of a longsword, which only has a speed factor of 5 and could be wielded as two-handed by a Small character.

The one caveat would be an explanation of how Gex acquired such weapons: Who is making tiny polearms? How did he get one? Not that this would be difficult, given his "rambling" nature.

Edit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kariel Lateef
Question.
No, that wouldn't be unusual at all. You got the rest of that right.
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  #99  
Old Feb 12th, 2010, 04:12 PM
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Well, I don't think it's too hard for him to get a bit smaller weapons. He has probably tried to give a shot for the polearms, but found them too big for him: however, he is a weaponsmith, and if he can figure out how a repeating crossbow works well enough to replicate it, it wouldn't be too big of a stretch for him to construct some smaller polearms for his own use, now would it?

Is that damage the same for small/medium and large creatures? Also, wouldn't those weapons be medium sized instead of small, considering how normal polearms are large sized and humans can still wield them all right? Finally, I also have a spear: can I use it two-handed?

As for the language issue... my intelligence allows me four languages, none of which is going to any weapons or weapon styles. Therefore, I know kobold, common, and orc - and I've still got one language left for me to pick up Midani fairly quickly after arriving to Zakhara.

Last edited by Chow; Feb 12th, 2010 at 04:21 PM.
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  #100  
Old Feb 12th, 2010, 04:40 PM
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Yeah...I don't really know what I was thinking with that table. Bit too hasty.

Anyway, as for the weapons acquisition: Yes, that's very reasonable. I had forgotten that Gex was a tinkerer and weaponsmith. In fact, I could even see him as trying to establish a niche by manufacturing and selling weapons for similarly "vertically-challenged" Zakharans. Maybe he could be seen as/advertise himself as not only a specialist in this strange crossbow device, but also a distributor of arms who caters to the desires of smaller people who are tired of not having weapons made for them. After all, why not? Even if you can wield a weapon, it doesn't mean it's comfortable--and given the number of dwarves and halflings in Zakhara, I can see that as being a large and profitable market.

Although the dominant weapons-dealing merchant houses probably won't like Gex very much for it...etc.

The table should look like this:

Pint-Sized Polearms Cost Weight (lb.) Size Type Speed Factor Damage (S-M) Damage (L)
Diminutive Bardiche 4 gp 6 M S 9 1d6 2d4
Diminutive Lucerne Hammer * 4 gp 7 M P/B 9 1d6 1d4
* The Diminutive Lucerne Hammer inflicts double damage when firmly set to receive a charge.

Yes, as a Medium-sized weapon, a spear could be wielded in two hands by Gex.
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  #101  
Old Feb 12th, 2010, 04:46 PM
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Gex the Pint-Sized Weaponsmith: arming the little people since 2010!

I could be the pioneer that eventually results in 3.5 weapon size gategories!

Last edited by Chow; Feb 12th, 2010 at 04:47 PM.
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  #102  
Old Feb 12th, 2010, 04:47 PM
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Hrm, Size (S/M) doing more damage than Size L... I think I need to downsize my dwarf to a midget.
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  #103  
Old Feb 12th, 2010, 05:32 PM
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No...in 2e, the Damage categories refer to the damage inflicted upon creatures of the given size, not the damage inflicted by weapons of the given size.

The difference between the two damage ratings are mainly noticeable either with a weapon like knife or broadsword doing less damage to L creatures; a weapon like a quarterstaff or arrow doing the same damage to both S, M, and L creatures; and a weapon like a lance or an awl pike (most polearms, in fact) doing more damage to L creatures.
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  #104  
Old Feb 19th, 2010, 02:39 PM
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You may have already answered this, but how do racial adjustments work with the Method VII deal?
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  #105  
Old Feb 19th, 2010, 03:05 PM
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Simple, I think: you divide the scores the way you want, then add the penalties.
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