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  #61  
Old Apr 29th, 2022, 09:45 PM
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@Cat

Looking at Oracle curses, I think Blackened is a cool idea for my PC...

But, the flavor is all wrong. It's all about "burning hands in a fire" and then, scorching ray, fireball, etc.. and Timidus is a darkness kind of person.

could we do the same dynamic, and change it around?

 
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  #62  
Old Apr 29th, 2022, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Admin Dirk View Post
yeah, you can help me.

Let's say we survive and advance to the next "levels".

my 2nd level Gestalt Oracle//Witch would be what then?

4th level Gestalt//Witch? What if I wanted to go Mythic?

2 Oracle//Witch, 2 Mythic?
You went Gestalt for your first 2 levels. At level 4, you will have 2 choices.

You can advance one of your classes by 2 levels, depending which is your "primary," so you could be Oracle 4 // Witch 2 // Mythic Rank 1; OR Witch 4 // Oracle 2 // Mythic Rank 1 (You get one "Mythic Rank (or Tier, same thing) per 2 levels where you chose Mythic instead of Gestalt.

or you could advance Gestalt again and be Oracle 4 // Witch 4. No Mythic.


If you go Mythic:

As Mythic Rank 1, you get:

Depending on your Campaign Trait, you will get an Associated Mythic Path. You chose "Chance Encounter" so you must choose between the Trickster Path or Reluctant Hero

Trickster grants Trickster attack; your choice of Deadly Throw, Fleet Charge or Surprise Strike.
Reluctant Hero grants Reluctant Heroics; your choice of Anti-Hero, Cynic, Fluke, or Non-Combatant.

In addition to those, you get a Path Ability, which can be from the 1st Tier of your chosen path or from a Universal Path or Universal Path Abilities extra options. Also you can use the Mythic Spheres tabs for more options, including Universal Path Abilities and details of the various Mythic Traditions

You can also choose from Mythic Class abilities, which count as Universal Path abilities.

Mythic Oracle Options.
Mythic Witch Options.

After that, you also get a Mythic Feat, of which there are MANY. There are additionnal Mythic Feats on this page.

You must (usually) have the non-Mythic version of a Mythic Feat in order to gain its benefits.

Note that you can spend a Mythic Feat on the above Mythic Class Abilities as well.

Finally, your Mythic rank gives you 150% HP of whatever class you progressed, so 12+Con if Oracle, and 9+Con if Witch. Twice, once for each level.

You get +1 Inherent Bonus to an Ability Score of your choice.

and your choice of Mythic Bond; Companion or Object (see the Mythic Advancement Folder for details)




Quote:
Originally Posted by AdminDirk
and as a 2nd tier Mythic, I gain this?

Mythic Tier Ability Score Mythic Feat Base Mythic Abilities
1st — 1st Hard to kill, mythic power, surge +1d6
2nd 1st — Amazing initiative
You get only 1 Mythic tier since you chose Gestalt for level 1-2.

Also, Amazing Initiative has been removed as an option.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AdminDirk
Do I get my normal ability score increase as a 4th level PC?
Yes, as normal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdminDirk
And the mythic one? Or just one or the other?
You do get +1 Inherent bonus (As I outlined above) to any ability score as well as your level 4 untyped bonus.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AdminDirk
And my 3rd level feat as a normal PC, then a 1st Mythic?
You get your 3rd level Feat and a single Mythic Feat for your 1 Mythic Rank (Tier)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdminDIrk
Hitpoints... if I choose Mythic (archmage, for example), how does that work?
You can't choose Archmage if you keep the Chance Encounter Campaign Trait. If you want Archmage Mythic Path, you must select the Riftwarden Orphan Campaign trait.

You get a fixed number of bonus hp as expressed by the +150% of HD for both levels for which you chose to advance as Mythic rather than Gestalt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdminDirk
Also, if I go Mythic.. I get no skill points, or BAB advancement, or save advancements?

So, I get some hitpoints, some ability score boosts, and some nice powerful feats, but... my Hitpoints are going to fall way behind, as are skills and BAB.
You will not fall behind since you still advance 1 of your classes if you went Mythic (Oracle +2 or Witch+2, your choice) so will get those BAB, HP, Skills, Spells, Class Abilities, ETC.

Your ONE Mythic Rank replaces only the Gestalt side for 2 levels, basically.

Hope that helps. (Also hope I got that right)
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Last edited by LeoByron; Apr 30th, 2022 at 02:12 AM.
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  #63  
Old Apr 30th, 2022, 02:35 AM
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So, lot's of chatter, but I'll make sure to restate the main points.

2 mythic character levels = 1 mythic rank.
(I'm using rank and tier synonymously.)

If a character is level X a mix of gestalt and mythic: X = G + M, (G and M nonnegative.)
The character's mythic Rank is M/2.

You might think Gestalt gives you more, but mythic bypasses some damage and spell reduction, can get mythic boons, activate mythic items, attracts worshippers, etc. Mythic characters get boosted items or companions, they get limited same day retraining for mythic feats - so extra flexability. Gestalt vs. Mythic is intended to balance ... though whether balance is even possible with such a wide ruleset is questionable.

Thematically, the gestalt characters are like the "Legend" path in the computer game -- mortals at the very top of their potential but not on track to divinity. People on mythic "Paths of Ascent" are on the track for the game's "secret ending".

@Leo - on retraining, allowed as retraining a class feature. (For retraining my preference is that characters keep a coherent theme even if mechanics change, and that's your intent here.)

@LeoByron, exactly this verbatim:

Quote:
If the ability allows you to select from a list of options or grants more options over time, such as mageknight mystic combats or incanter bonus feats, you only gain one of those choices even if you would normally get more at higher levels. For example, you would only get one bonus feat from the incanter.
So only one of: Focused Push, Unconscious Deflection, Force Trample, Overpowering Force, Focusing Overload, and Kinetic Burst -- and if it depends on anything prior that cannot be taken as a prereq, it is not available at all.

Re: "Object of Desire" -- OK to swap to Enthrall, only when Enthrall is not enhanced by the use of any other talents beyond Expanded Charm. (That keeps the exchange at parity and does not make it stronger in Spheres.)

--

@Admin --

If you have a 2nd level Gestalt Oracle-2 / Witch-2, and you advance 2 levels, you advance only one of the branches.

So (assuming you just consider those two classes) you could be Oracle-4 / Witch-2, or Oracle-3 / Witch-3, or Oracle-2 / Witch-4. Plus you have Mythic Rank - 1.

You just gained 2 levels, so you get the normal skill points and 150% of the max hitpoints for the two levels you advanced.

(Errata: We aren't using Amazing Initiative for PCs, is a monsters-only ability.)

Quote:
Do I get my normal ability score increase as a 4th level PC?
Yes.

Quote:
And the mythic one?
Yes, additive.

Quote:
And my 3rd level feat as a normal PC, then a 1st Mythic?
Yes, additive.

Quote:
Hitpoints... if I choose Mythic (archmage, for example), how does that work?
You get 150% of the max base HP of the class you are advancing in, so if you added +2 Oracle, then +2*8*1.5 = +24 hp gained.

Quote:
Also, if I go Mythic.. I get no skill points, or BAB advancement, or save advancements?
No -- you get the normal advancements for your 2 class levels.

Last edited by CatCanCook; Apr 30th, 2022 at 02:46 AM.
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  #64  
Old Apr 30th, 2022, 02:42 AM
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@Admin - re: Blackened - The swap is OK, the spell levels need to be the same and the exchange should be for the closest matching spell.

@Admin, Leo -- I agree with almost all of Leo's explanation. It parallels mine, but also adds some details.

Notice one other change, I wrote that mythic advancement gives "+1 mythic bonus to an ability score"

That was deliberate, that mythic bonus stacks with inherent bonuses. So a mythic character can benefit from tomes/manuals and wishes to raise their stats with inherent bonuses (up to +5) and also get up to +5 from mythic bonuses -- net reaching a higher point than a non mythic character can.

Last edited by CatCanCook; Apr 30th, 2022 at 02:45 AM.
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  #65  
Old Apr 30th, 2022, 02:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythic Expertise
If the ability allows you to select from a list of options or grants more options over time, such as mageknight mystic combats or incanter bonus feats, you only gain one of those choices even if you would normally get more at higher levels. For example, you would only get one bonus feat from the incanter.
The difference, in this case, is that Mageknight Mystic Combats and Incanter bonus Feats offer OPTIONs whereas the Kinetic Overload has a progression, like the Incanter Specialization and its 3 leveled abilities.

I understand completely that Kinetic Overload has tons of abilities, though, so picking ONE of them is good enough for me.

Can I retrain it? I'd pick the lower one and then work my way up to Focusing Overload when it becomes available.
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Last edited by LeoByron; Apr 30th, 2022 at 02:52 AM.
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  #66  
Old Apr 30th, 2022, 02:49 AM
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I thought the Mythic Rules & Errata changed it to Inherent:

Quote:
Mythic ability score bonuses. Instead of granting PCs a +2 mythic bonus to an ability score every 2 mythic tiers, grant a +1 inherent bonus to an ability score every tier. Unlike the inherent bonuses granted by a wish spell, these bonuses are cumulative if an inherent bonus is applied to the same score more than once, with the restriction that a mythic character cannot apply this bonus to the same ability score at consecutive tiers. Making this an inherent bonus rather than an untyped ability increase means that it no longer stacks with inherent bonuses granted by a wish spell or similar effect.
If you are giving Mythic bonuses which stack with inherent, that is even better, however.
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  #67  
Old Apr 30th, 2022, 03:11 AM
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Quote:
I understand completely that Kinetic Overload has tons of abilities, though, so picking ONE of them is good enough for me.

Can I retrain it? I'd pick the lower one and then work my way up to Focusing Overload when it becomes available.
Yes you can retrain it. Note that retraining the ability is already part of tier advancement, as the mythic ability is defined.


Re: the errata -- I'll fix the errata to match my intended definition that mythic is additive to inherent. I meant to clone most of the Spheres recommendations, but intended to give mythic a bit more oomph in a few areas to counterbalance gestalt, and the ability score advantage is a big part of that.

Here it is:

Quote:
Mythic ability score bonuses. Instead of granting PCs a +2 mythic bonus to an ability score every 2 mythic tiers, grant a +1 mythic bonus to an ability score every tier. These bonuses are cumulative if a mythic bonus is applied to the same score more than once, with the restriction that a mythic character cannot apply this bonus to the same ability score at consecutive tiers. This mythic bonus stacks with inherent bonuses granted by a wish spell or similar effect.

Last edited by CatCanCook; Apr 30th, 2022 at 03:19 AM.
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  #68  
Old Apr 30th, 2022, 06:49 AM
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thank you for all the explanations. I certainly didn't understand the process. still not sure I do.

as for the blackened swap... I would be fine with keeping the same spell (scorching ray, burning hands, etc.) and just swapping the effects. Instead of a bright glowing flame, it can be exactly the same, just a dark black "flame".

For me, it's all flavor on that. I probably will not even use any of the spells. I just don't care for the shadowy figure to be all showy and such.
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  #69  
Old Apr 30th, 2022, 07:30 AM
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A question regarding the Mythic Boon You gain a single constant, permanent (transformation) form from the Alteration sphere, selected by the GM, that is thematically appropriate to the way you acquired your mythic power. Alternatively, the GM may select a basic form (limbs/speed) and apply any 3-5 Alteration traits to create a thematically appropriate form. This form is considered a natural part of your body and uses your character level as your caster level and uses your casting ability modifier or practitioner modifier (your choice, or your Charisma modifier if you lack either) to determine its effects. If the form requires the expenditure of spell points to use, you can only gain that form for a number of minutes equal to your mythic tier by spending a use of mythic power as a free action. At 3rd and 6th tiers, you gain an additional Alteration trait selected by the GM as a permanent addition to your form.Form of Power (Ex).

Since it says the GM decides what form is most appropriate from the Alteration sphere, what does that look like to you in consideration of Stolen Fury?
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  #70  
Old Apr 30th, 2022, 09:58 AM
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Ok, my application is complete, pending a review.
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  #71  
Old Apr 30th, 2022, 12:54 PM
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So can we start as a gestalt and mythic? 2 Fighter//1 wizard mythic 1?
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  #72  
Old Apr 30th, 2022, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Admin Dirk View Post
So can we start as a gestalt and mythic? 2 Fighter//1 wizard mythic 1?
No, because Mythic requires 2 levels of advancement to gain a Mythic rank.
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  #73  
Old Apr 30th, 2022, 01:09 PM
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LeoByron is correct.

If you want to be Fighter+Wizard the initial options are

- Gestalt fighter 2, Wizard 2

Or

- Mythic rank 1, Fighter 1, Wizard 1

Last edited by CatCanCook; Apr 30th, 2022 at 01:11 PM.
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  #74  
Old Apr 30th, 2022, 01:10 PM
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Looks like an exciting game with interesting mechanics. Sadly, I don't have the time for another game, but I did have a question.

I've never had a reason to look at the mythic rules myself but I glanced over them from this ad.

Could you combine the champion's limitless range ability, with mythic far shot and the throw anything feat to grapple someone, spend a mythic point, and then throw them into the sun?

The concept of a group of sentient enemies talking smack and just casually throwing their leader into space has put a smile on my face all day XD
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  #75  
Old Apr 30th, 2022, 01:14 PM
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Wow, Wrath of the Righteous and the spheres rules? Interest piqued.
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