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  #76  
Old Sep 16th, 2022, 09:01 PM
chaincomplex chaincomplex is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triedtherest View Post
The description for Alchemical Simulacrum (and by extension, the Greater version) specifically call them out as being Creatures instead of Supernatural Effects like regular Simulacrums. Coupled with the fact that the cost to repair a regular Simulacrum is the same as the cost to make the Alchemical version, infer that the Alchemical Simulacrum should heal like a regular Creature of the type it's based on.
That description refers to lesser simulacrum having duration greater than instantaneous, which means lesser simulacrum is a supernatural effect. Consider that the actual simulacrum is not itself a supernatural effect—it's not subject to antimagic, disjunction, or anything, and has duration instantaneous rather than permanent—and thus can't be the referent because then creature instead of supernatural effect doesn't apply.

Lesser simulacrum inherits the healing clause from simulacrum, which Alchemical Simulacrum then inherits from lesser simulacrum. From inspection it's clear the healing clause is meant to be exclusive, because there would be no point in adding it if it weren't: natural healing is better, and magical healing—certainly available to any caster who can use a simulacrum—is much better. Plus, based on similar spells such as ice assassin in 3.5e, it's clear the original intent was for the healing clause to be exclusive. As Pathfinder imported the wording directly from 3.5e, I believe this ruling is as close to RAI as it can be.

This is barely a nerf to simulacrum as it is and isn't intended to be one, for the record. If I didn't want the spell I'd get rid of it in totality. My goal for this campaign is to allow anything short of breaking the world, but otherwise read strictly. One advantage of play-by-post is our ability to be incredibly precise with rules that IRL DMs have to intuit.

As an aside, you can't assume the unique material component of simulacrum is free, it's clearly not intended to pop out of a spell component pouch. This is something you'll either have to convince me your character has access to, such as Midas being able cast simulacrum on himself or Elvira, or wait until the campaign begins to accumulate the needed material to start the simulacrum spam of solars or whatever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by triedtherest View Post
How do you rule on the SLA's of Simulacrum's?
Very standard house rules. Access to SLAs to arbitrarily cancel expensive or unique material components or foci are a no-go because this can accomplish arbitrarily much. (Unless of course explicitly intended by mention or precedent, such as in a class feature.)

The point of this game is to explore 20th-level Pathfinder, not how badly Pathfinder fails as a simulation.

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Originally Posted by triedtherest View Post
So, theoretically, would Midas be able to use the mechanic's I described in game after play began?
Yes, otherwise the only option would be to ban Downtime, which would be lame. You're trading time in campaign to build things, anyways, so it's not going to create perverse incentives in character building.

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Originally Posted by Maghnuis View Post
How much "time into wealth" would each character have available? Where would the simplest version of this be explained?
Thx
The only way I'm allowing the time-to-wealth conversion during character creation is by building a crafter character, with the appropriate item creation feats and skills, which then permits a character to get more out of their wealth (as befits a crafter build).

After the campaign begins all the usual tools of Downtime (and maybe Kingdom) will be available. You'll want to assess the Ultimate Campaign rules for Downtime to determine whether this kind of gameplay is something you want to indulge in, because it's taking a backseat, even if it is quite a bit of money.

Last edited by chaincomplex; Sep 16th, 2022 at 09:11 PM.
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  #77  
Old Sep 17th, 2022, 12:39 AM
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Would a Lantern or Hound Archon be reasonable Simulacrum's for Midas to start out with?
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Old Sep 17th, 2022, 11:42 AM
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Samurai Hirakawa [Character Sheet Pathfinder] [Mushu sheet]

Name: Hirakawa Daimyo (Toshi)
right-aligned image

Race: Human
Class: Samurai
Age: 60s looks 20ish
Gender: M


Origin: Minkai on the continent of Tian Xia
God: Kenzaki - LN God of Honor, Fortune, and Samurai.(Most know this deity as Shizuru from their 2nd Incarnation)
Celestial Relation: Before his ascension as Demi-god then full Deity, some say that Kenzaki was a man, a Celestially blooded man, Emperor, founder of a Dynasty.

Hirakawa Clan is related to this Imperial family, but at some distance in generations. That makes Kenzaki-kami a Revered Ancestor and long time Patron. Toshi's direct line has used the cognate Kirigawa until they reclaimed the blade and reclaimed leadership of the Family. Honorable living and Combat are the heart of his religion. Duty is preeminent. Toshi Honors all the Traditions, Deities and Kami, but Kenzaki/Shizuru and his own Ancestors hold the highest place of Honor.

Early life: Toshi had no real friends, although he is friendly to most. Since his birth he has been on the move. with his Mother avoiding warfare, or later, with his Father training for Warfare. At the age of 16 his Father passed the family mission on to Toshi. His Father died the following year, supporting the Emperor, knowing that his son would carry on their Sacred Quest. He has family with a few manors near the Ancient Capital, but until his mission is complete, their position is of relatively little importance. Should he fail without heir, he has a cousin who will take up the mantle. The Clan Holy Men monitor his progress from afar, as best they may, but do not interfere. The Daisho he bears is that which his ancestor General wore before being elevated to the office of Shogun. He wore it at the side of the second Incarnation of Kenzaki.

Personality: Driven, Terse, No Nonsense. When it concerns his Family Honor or their Great Mission - Nothing will get in his way.

In other circumstances, he is relaxed, helpful, wanting to hone his talents and be useful to those in need.
His Lawfulness has to do with his personal discipline and the dictates of Bushido, honor, especially his family honor.
His Neutral tendencies mean that in light of his driving goals, he will do anything no matter how dreadful to fulfill his family quest and now, to protect those under his care.

In all other regards he is pleasant, charming and led by his better instincts. If it is not an absolute matter of duty he can be considered to be Lawful Good. Doing Good is to be desired, following Duty is required.

His apparent personality varies hugely based on the situation. At home in simple robes he can be found gently guiding a miniature Bonsai, or more energetically guiding a young stallion. In Battle, he is a poetic expression of Death delivering those who need to be removed into the hands of the waiting Shinigami. Quiet, quick and workmanlike his Katana is a master craftsmen tool of death. At Court he is either the calm restrained example of perfect courtliness, or else a passion filled adviser convincing all who hear him to do what is right and proper.

Initial impression: The Samurai Hirakawa is the Calm before the Storm... or before the Spring rains. Kinetic potential that will flow gently downhill, or descend upon you as rapidly as an avalanche. Raw potential, unaimed, but ready to launch as the direction is given, the objective discerned. Both as a youth, and as a semi retired Samurai Daimyo, he is the calm of sunshine and gentle rain, his earnestness and loquacious expressions soothe all but the most depraved or brutal. Upon them is released the raw power of the typhoon.

Save for the dishonorable, he seems ready to assist even the lowest of those who are without taint of dishonor, and who treat others well. He has not stooped to employment, yet will not hesitate to help a merchant with a broken cart or a peasant who needs assistance on the street. It is said that he has cut down malfeasors where they stand, when they have attempted to rob or hurt the weak or less fortunate. Those who know for certain, either owe him their lives, or have lost their lives. He has consequently, no end of invitations to dinner from those of humble homes, or from those who style themselves big fish in this little pond of a village. Sometimes, he even accepts them.

Physically, he stands five foot and ten inches, and in another culture would be said to move like a dancer. Those versed in the practices of Bushido can tell that his movement is as a man trained in combat with both the weapons of Samurai and without them. He is only slightly taller than most of his countrymen lithe and slim. Corded muscle power his expression rather than bulk. His long flowing black hair is presented as appropriate for the activity, his natural beauty is remarkable, but his only unusual feature are eyes of a rich golden color. Some would attribute them to his descent from the Celestial Dragon, others to enlightenment received in places and planes untraveled by most.

His dress is always perfect for the occasion whether working with the horses or receiving high delegates for Court or Temple.
 

And now:
Now it is, that Toshi has been contacted by Phillipe, the Gaijin Master of Time. With his mastery of historic time, he has spotted a threat to all. History seems to end, but the causes and details are obscured. Phillipe has seen that a group is gathering to avoid the inevitable, or rather set it aside until its proper time. Toshi packs his traveling bags and is transported to the meeting place. He knows that tampering with the timeline can be more dangerous than allowing a great tragedy to exist, but, as with the Undead Pretender, those of goodwill can sometimes repair the damages that have been done. May we be successful again in thwarting this apocalypse.
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Last edited by Maghnuis; Sep 20th, 2022 at 01:17 AM.
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  #79  
Old Sep 17th, 2022, 04:48 PM
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Cool photo!
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  #80  
Old Sep 17th, 2022, 06:28 PM
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This sounds like fun, but I lack the experience in both high level campaigns and Eastern culture to honestly have a chance. Good luck to everyone and have fun.
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  #81  
Old Sep 17th, 2022, 08:38 PM
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I'm going to withdraw Lucius Khel, I'm just not feeling him. Best of luck to all, plenty of awesome applications thus far!
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  #82  
Old Sep 17th, 2022, 08:48 PM
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Wow. So, this is really ambitious and inspiring. I love the timey-wimey take on facing down the apocalypse along with the upfront expectation that, while you can fight the coming end, you can't just chunk inevitability into the dustbin entirely. And the applications you've got in so far are a testament to the creativity and talent of the people here. I can't imagine that I can put together much that would compete, especially being very extremely new here. But that doesn't mean I don't intend to try!

The thing is, this sort of game. If my set playgroup was doing this, we'd probably have more than one round of Session Zero to discuss what sort of motivations we would want to have in common and to try to pretend like a whole party of level 20 PF characters can be built to be roughly the same-ish power level. But since we're auditioning for the character slots, that doesn't quite work.

Clearly, I'm not trying to ask what you want in terms of characters. You wouldn't need people to pitch you stuff if you wanted specific things! But maybe... what don't you want to see? PF characters at 20 can run the gamut from scry-and-teleport assassination engines to crazy toolbox wizards to... pretty normal characters with just bigger numbers than lower levels. My watchword for... all games, really, is to not make characters that I think make the other players' games less fun. But if you've got visions regarding stuff you don't want to see, that'd be helpful while I desperately try to figure out what to assemble here!
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  #83  
Old Sep 18th, 2022, 02:19 AM
chaincomplex chaincomplex is offline
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Is there a standard on this site for how combat mapping is done? I've been using Google Sheets on another site and it's been going fine for half a year, but if there are higher expectations here I'm happy to try to meet them haha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by triedtherest View Post
Would a Lantern or Hound Archon be reasonable Simulacrum's for Midas to start out with?
Well honestly anything you can gate—and pay the associated cost—is something you can reasonably say you consistently got access to. A small service of like plucking a few feathers from a solar, or scales from a dragon would probably fit the calling descriptor of gate.

I'm not opening this opportunity to certain options that require some success roll, like planar binding, because I don't want randomness or autosuccess in the character creation stage. Also summons (as in the specific subtype of magic, distinct from calling and other ways of "summoning") probably won't leave parts of themselves behind when they dematerialize.

If you can convince me there's another, consistent way to get access to a creature's parts you want a simulacrum of, then that's your road to starting with the simulacrum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damionovich View Post
This sounds like fun, but I lack the experience in both high level campaigns and Eastern culture to honestly have a chance. Good luck to everyone and have fun.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Grouchy View Post
I'm going to withdraw Lucius Khel, I'm just not feeling him. Best of luck to all, plenty of awesome applications thus far!


Quote:
Originally Posted by AmieGamer View Post
Clearly, I'm not trying to ask what you want in terms of characters. You wouldn't need people to pitch you stuff if you wanted specific things! But maybe... what don't you want to see? PF characters at 20 can run the gamut from scry-and-teleport assassination engines to crazy toolbox wizards to... pretty normal characters with just bigger numbers than lower levels. My watchword for... all games, really, is to not make characters that I think make the other players' games less fun. But if you've got visions regarding stuff you don't want to see, that'd be helpful while I desperately try to figure out what to assemble here!
Well, this is my first try at 20th-level Pathfinder, though I'm obviously familiar with the system and also know high-level D&D 3.5e well.

I'm explicitly welcoming scry-and-die tactics and Batman wizards. What I'm intending for this game to be is an exploration of 20th-level Pathfinder, so any crazy build that exults in the options available here would be welcome.

What I don't want is something that drowns out this focus, like how the recently banned trompe l'oeil is an arbitrarily powerful tool that makes most of the game's mechanics redundant or irrelevant. Part of that is, as you mentioned, not totally overshadowing other builds, though to some extent imbalance is unavoidable at level 20. At the other end, however, I don't want a pure-RP build that's reliant on the team to handle CR-appropriate challenges.

Ideally retraining availability, player goodwill, and commonsense will make this thing work. We'll see!

As an aside, now that Grouchy has dropped out I will mention that I was curious about the possibility of giving their character a place in the game as a solo semi-antagonist, since they accidentally wrote their character concept into one of the planned factions. This is something I'm still mulling—this would be ambitious, because time management with a split player group at this level could be challenging, especially with the slow posting rate.

Last edited by chaincomplex; Sep 18th, 2022 at 02:23 AM.
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  #84  
Old Sep 18th, 2022, 04:29 AM
SpatulaOdoom SpatulaOdoom is offline
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WIP
Finally got enough to post. I actually had a somewhat different character originally, but wound up finding a bit of inspiration and rewrote it.

NassorName: Nassor (last name forgotten)
Other names and titles: Rovagug's bane, The Old Man of the River
Age: This is how old he was when he stopped agingPhysical 41, This means he was born in the year 2021sidereal 2690, Time in Nassor's pocket dimension flows at twice the rate as on the material plane, and while he isn't there permanently by any means, he does spend a lot of time there. He has also spent time in planar excursions to areas where time does not flow on a 1-1 rate.experienced relative 3381
Race: Human
Gender: Male
Alignment: True Neutral with good leanings (originally NG)
Class: Wizard 20 (possibly arcanist 20)
Place of origin: Osirion
Worships: Nethys


Appearance: Nassor is tall and broad-shouldered, but lanky in an underfed sort of way. His face is rawboned and angular, with a pronounced brow and cheekbones, and his skin, while olive tan, is oddly pale and waxy. His hair is kept very short, nearly shaven, and is dark, speckled with grey, and with a bald pate. His eyes are dark dark brown, almost black, and piercing. Nassor's look has a serious and somewhat sour cast, seeming to be annoyed or angry even when he is not.

Demeanor: Nassor is patient and his emotions seem subdued. He is also boundlessly curious. Despite his very long life, he still believes that there will always be something to learn or some new mystery to delve. He has a bit of a penchant for talking to himself due to many years spent in his own company (or that of servants). Despite his phenomenal power and wealth Svend prefers to live relatively simply in his day to day life.

History:
 
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Last edited by SpatulaOdoom; Sep 19th, 2022 at 09:20 AM.
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Old Sep 18th, 2022, 07:56 PM
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Quick note, if you want item creation feats to give a benefit during character creation but not be huge, what you can do is just say that each item creation gives you extra gold pieces in starting money, rather than having them track the crafting. They still pay for everything at full price and it still comes out of the same pool of money, they just have a little bit more.
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Last edited by SpatulaOdoom; Sep 18th, 2022 at 08:01 PM.
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Old Sep 19th, 2022, 06:31 AM
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I've been thinking about it and I don't know if I made my character epic enough for 20th level. I don't know whether to start a new one or come up with more, or even just leave it as is? What does everyone else think? If I go with a new one, it'll be an elf investigator who now leads an international crime syndicate (as of recently, so she hasn't turned it around like she plans to). Took Master Craftsman (and Craft Magic Arms and Armor) for Weapons, so she can make magic weapons as needed. Not as cool as tattoos, but can't do that with Master Craftsman.

I could switch her over to making clothes, but it doesn't fit the backstory I came up with. Plus I don't even know if I WANT to switch. I mean, Bai Ling is cool, I just don't know if she's epic enough or if she is even far enough away from pure RP to be viable in this game. Any opinions from anyone?

Last edited by Ermine; Sep 19th, 2022 at 06:37 AM.
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  #87  
Old Sep 19th, 2022, 09:31 AM
SpatulaOdoom SpatulaOdoom is offline
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There's nothing wrong with the basic concept. If you feel it's lacking, just imagine what sorts of adventures the character might have become involved in to make 20th level (feel free to be vague and generalize), and how reaching those heights of power would have affected them.
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Old Sep 19th, 2022, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaincomplex View Post
Is there a standard on this site for how combat mapping is done? I've been using Google Sheets on another site and it's been going fine for half a year, but if there are higher expectations here I'm happy to try to meet them haha.
Not any standards, really. DM preferences more like. I tend to run my battlemaps in my ancient CS 3 version of Photoshop (photopea.com works too) because then I can layer tokens and/or fog of war etc. on top of the background and move it all around as needed every round then export a .jpg which I attach to the game post. It does mean I have to make every tile and resize everything when I'm pulling screenshots from disparate sources, but it's a habit now. I've had DMs use the Google Doc, which is convenient because if what you've been doing is what I think you mean it cuts down on your workload some because we move our own pieces around for you. For that same reason a lot of people use Roll20, as it cuts down on all that labor of designing elements, and also lets the players move their stuff around. PbP also lends itself to a lot of "theater of the mind" especially since, when the narration is sufficiently descriptive, a review of the last few posts refreshes the memory without the constant "Wait, the chair is where?" you get in real-time theater of the mind games at the table.
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Old Sep 19th, 2022, 04:57 PM
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I don't think anyone would think their 20th level character would be epic. For me, it's the roleplay. I made a long background, but no way I could list everything he had done. He can kick butt, which is enough for me and being multiclassed, he may not be the best in one thing, but he's good at everything. If your character can handle itself in any given situation, then that's good enough. Also, if you read a lot of fantasy novels like I do, lot of the epic heroes aren't really epic or even feel epic. Besides skill, it takes a lot of luck as well.
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Leaning against the wall, watching the others rush by him, he grins. "Go ahead, go get that treasure that's laying there. Be more for me after you die."
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Old Sep 19th, 2022, 10:07 PM
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I think my Half-Ogre race is ready for a check. I think it is very close to the 23 RP.
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