Grease spell vs mounted opponents

[Raylorne]

So I’ve got a player casting grease at a square where I have a mounted enemy.

Player feels both the mount and the rider need to save, but I felt only the mount needed to save as they were the one standing on the grease spell. If mount fails the rider has to save.


I’m curious what others think.


Player states they’re making the rats greasy, but I read the spell description as a surface such as a floor or wall, not the actual mounts themselves. I suppose the character could cast grease on the saddle as an item?

[Wynamoinen]

(Assuming you're talking about 5e....) I think the key word in the spell description is *standing*. It effects creatures standing in the area. The mount is standing. The mounted rider is not standing.

The spell gets a little wigglier when it says that in subsequent turns since the spell just says you must save on a DEX check if you end your turn there. I guess that's what the player is pushing on? But given that the initial effects are described as effecting standing creatures, and the spell explicitly coats the ground, I personally wouldn't entertain this debate for a moment. My ruling would be that if you're not standing on the ground, you can't be impacted by of the spell.

[Menzo]

You are correct. Grease would be cast on the ground underneath the mount. Mount would do a Dex save to remain upright. If the mount failed the save, the rider would then do a Dex save to dismount safely. Also, very high chance, depending on the type of mount, that the mount would injure itself in the fall.

However...

If you were feeling amenable, you might allow the player to do an Arcana check with a reasonably high DC to target the saddle instead of the ground underneath the mount. However, this is completely non-standard. There's no rule for this, and you're perfectly within your rights to stick to the RAW for Grease.

[Admin Dirk]

It's Pathfinder and the wording of the spell is:

quote A grease spell covers a solid surface with a layer of slippery grease. Any creature in the area when the spell is cast must make a successful Reflex save or fall.

One school of thought is that the grease covers every surface in the area of effect... Like a mist of grease coating everything (imagine spraying a ten foot square with Pam cooking spray).

The second sentence seems important as well: Any creature in the area of the spell must save, not just certain creatures.

[Raylorne]

Yeah I’m sorry. Totally gapped on listing the version. It is PF.


But is the area the 10’ square encompassing the floor or a 10’ cube?

I feel if they wanted the spell to be a cube area they’d have specified it.

I recently played PF Kingmaker. Yes I appreciate that it’s a video game, but apparently they faithfully followed the rules. In this game and every other dnd game I’ve played it’s a spell that forms a puddle of grease on the floor.

Obviously in 9/10 encounters this never comes up, but this time there happens to be mounted enemies and I honestly wasn’t planning for a grease spell.

[Admin Dirk]

I will agree, it does not specify cube.

However, the line "any creature in the area" is specific context to the spell. I would read that as "any creature in the area of effect", which is a 10' x 10' section of the earth (floor, deck, ground, etc.).

[Raylorne]

Any creature in that 10x10 section of earth would have to have their feet/hooves/whatever planted on the ground to be considered in that area of effect imo. Somebody sitting on the back of somebody standing in that area of effect is fine as long as the creature with its feet on the ground successfully passes and remains standing thereby preventing the feet of the rider from touching the ground..

Alright I started googling. I still just ended up back at the spell description.

Originally Posted by description

Any creature in the area when the spell is cast must make a successful Reflex save or fall.

I'd be able to read that as mount and rider in this instance, but a mounted rider walking through the grease spell after it has been cast would only affect the mount as long as the mount remains standing.

[Sarge67]

I wouldn't make the rider make a save... but possibly make him roll a riding skill check to remain on the mount which is out of control and spooked.

[Admin Dirk]

It warms my heart to make your ulcer flare up, Raylorne...

[jj_wolven]

The grease spell coats "one object or 10' square". Only the floor and cannot target creatures. Since it specifies a square (not cube) it is only what is touching that square that needs to save.

If you want to allow him to cast it on a creature (GM discretion), the target would make a save.
If he wants to cast it on the saddle, the rider would be able to make a save to cancel the spell as it is an 'attended object.

Ulcers cannot be targeted without GM discretion.

-me

[Raylorne]

I'd decided to go with any creatures in the 10' area when its cast need to make a reflex save.

Whether it's like spraying a surface with PAM, or a puddle of grease erupts from the floor I suppose either way everyone in that 10' stands a risk of getting greasy.

Walking through a grease spell after it's been cast will only affect the mount first. Possibly toss a ride check in there to see if the rider can stay in the saddle.

It's an urban campaign, and I'm not expecting a lot of mounted enemies. I had never encountered this particular situation before, and said I would crowdsource some input before making a decision.

Thank you all for the input. I'm glad the overwhelming support seemed to fall on my side of this disagreement.

[EmperorNero]

Grease has always, at least in my experience, been one of the trickier spells because a lot of times a smart player will attempt to game the system with it. God knows I have.

[Raylorne]

Originally Posted by EmperorNero

Grease has always, at least in my experience, been one of the trickier spells because a lot of times a smart player will attempt to game the system with it. God knows I have.

I wouldn’t necessarily call him a smart player. At least not to his face.