Ask the Sage: Quick Rules Questions volume 6 - DnD 3.5 and Pathfinder) - Page 6 - RPG Crossing
RPG Crossing Home Forums Create An Account! Site Rules & Help

RPG Crossing
Go Back   RPG Crossing > Feedback & User Resources > Gaming Advice > Game Rules
twitter facebook facebook

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #76  
Old Feb 27th, 2010, 03:57 PM
ArcaneLizard's Avatar
ArcaneLizard ArcaneLizard is offline
Very Old Dragon
 
Tools
User Statistics
Last Visit: Jun 20th, 2010
RPXP: 244
ArcaneLizard ArcaneLizard ArcaneLizard
Posts: 690
Wait, you can use a weapon to initiate grapple?
I mean, sure, you can obviously use the Whip, the Chain, the Bolas, but a Sword? A Crossbow?
I had thought you had to be bare-handed or use a weapon that specifically allows it.
__________________
Hello peoples. Sorry I've been away, and sorry I'll stay away. One of my grades was lost on a bureoucratic mishap, and I've been trying to fix it, to no avail. I'll try to catch up when that is fixed, assuming my characters still live by then. Sorry again.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old Feb 27th, 2010, 04:32 PM
NEON725's Avatar
NEON725 NEON725 is offline
One of them
 
Tools
User Statistics
Last Visit: Oct 29th, 2016
RPXP: 1656
NEON725 NEON725 NEON725 NEON725 NEON725 NEON725 NEON725 NEON725 NEON725 NEON725 NEON725
Posts: 4,937
If the crossbow had a rope attached to the bolt... Hilarity?
__________________
"I'm signaturing that" - dirkoth
I'll take a chip... AND EAT IT! *dramatic music*
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old Feb 27th, 2010, 04:43 PM
Jondera's Avatar
Jondera Jondera is offline
FOR SCIENCE!
Good People  

Event Judge  

Former Staff
 
Tools
User Statistics
Last Visit: Feb 18th, 2023
RPXP: 11985
Jondera Jondera Jondera Jondera Jondera Jondera Jondera Jondera Jondera Jondera Jondera
Posts: 13,913
There's a feat in CAdventurer that allows you to initiate grapple checks with ranged weapons by pinning peoples clothing (or anatomy) to solid objects.
__________________
Are you on Steam? Join our Steam group! (Currently under construction, but open for membership)
Like folk music? Interested in Swedish folk culture? I have videos on Youtube.
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old Feb 27th, 2010, 07:00 PM
chaosaccountant's Avatar
chaosaccountant chaosaccountant is offline
Anarchic Actuary
 
Tools
User Statistics
Last Visit: Jul 8th, 2013
RPXP: 2744
chaosaccountant chaosaccountant chaosaccountant chaosaccountant chaosaccountant chaosaccountant chaosaccountant chaosaccountant chaosaccountant chaosaccountant chaosaccountant
Posts: 3,650
Alright, something that has been confusing me for some time. When a Grey Ooze, Ochre Jelly or similar 'split', what are the stats for the component parts? I know they both have half the HP, but is that their maximum HP, or could they both be healed to full? Do they have the same BAB, HD total, saves etc? Do they have the same strength? What size would they be, and does that affect their attack/AC/grapple/stats/damage in the normal way?
__________________
For the Night is Dark and full of Terrors
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old Feb 27th, 2010, 07:48 PM
GeoAvanti's Avatar
GeoAvanti GeoAvanti is offline
Warrior of Derpness
 
Tools
User Statistics
Last Visit: Mar 28th, 2023
RPXP: 14324
GeoAvanti GeoAvanti GeoAvanti GeoAvanti GeoAvanti GeoAvanti GeoAvanti GeoAvanti GeoAvanti GeoAvanti GeoAvanti
Posts: 5,875
Chaos, my impression of that dilemma is as follows:

Direct from the SRD.

"Split (Ex)

Slashing and piercing weapons and electricity attacks deal no damage to an ochre jelly. Instead the creature splits into two identical jellies, each with half of the original’s current hit points (round down). A jelly with 10 hit points or less cannot be further split and dies if reduced to 0 it points.
"

In this case, it should follow all of the same rules as a normal jelly/ooze of its kind-- there shouldn't be any stat changes from the original you are using. BAB, saves, size, etc. should be the same as the original creature used.

HP probably shouldn't be its maximum, since it should be the same HD, so it could probably be healed more-- though someone willing to touch it may have problems of their own.

However, I pose a further question, if a Jelly is under the effects of a spell with a duration, an it splits itself while still under those effects, do both Jellies suffer from the effects of the spell? For example, an Ochre Jelly is affected by a Ray of Enfeeblement. While suffering from this spell, it splits. Does the new Jelly also suffer from the same effects? What about the same numeric amounts?

If yes, does this cascading effect of magic ever technically end solely because of excessive amounts of splitting?

I assume it to be so, since Split calls for an identical creature-- identical would imply suffering from the same negatives for the same durations (or buffs, for any odd reason) that the original creature had problems with.
__________________
Assume I am a bear that woke up from a five-year-long nap. Three minutes ago.

That is how I feel.
Reply With Quote
  #81  
Old Feb 27th, 2010, 08:17 PM
ArcaneLizard's Avatar
ArcaneLizard ArcaneLizard is offline
Very Old Dragon
 
Tools
User Statistics
Last Visit: Jun 20th, 2010
RPXP: 244
ArcaneLizard ArcaneLizard ArcaneLizard
Posts: 690
I assume they would be fully affected, but the duration would be split.
Since the halved hp stems from the creature halving its own mass, and the magic could be assumed to "reside" in the creature's body.
__________________
Hello peoples. Sorry I've been away, and sorry I'll stay away. One of my grades was lost on a bureoucratic mishap, and I've been trying to fix it, to no avail. I'll try to catch up when that is fixed, assuming my characters still live by then. Sorry again.
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old Feb 27th, 2010, 10:40 PM
Damionte's Avatar
Damionte Damionte is offline
Great Wyrm
 
Tools
User Statistics
Last Visit: Mar 25th, 2022
RPXP: 914
Damionte Damionte Damionte Damionte Damionte Damionte Damionte Damionte
Posts: 5,251
I could rule that going either way based on the circumstances. In most cases I think i would rule it continuing on with the same duration it had before.

To reinforce an answer to an earlier question, there are times yes where you can make grapple, or trip attempts with weapons. Some weapons can do one or the other or both as part of the ability for the base weapon. Some feats allow you to do one or the other or both with certain weapons as well.
__________________
Darryl "Damionte" Harris
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old Mar 1st, 2010, 08:14 AM
chaosaccountant's Avatar
chaosaccountant chaosaccountant is offline
Anarchic Actuary
 
Tools
User Statistics
Last Visit: Jul 8th, 2013
RPXP: 2744
chaosaccountant chaosaccountant chaosaccountant chaosaccountant chaosaccountant chaosaccountant chaosaccountant chaosaccountant chaosaccountant chaosaccountant chaosaccountant
Posts: 3,650
That would make Ooze Pupet a fantastically powerful spell...
__________________
For the Night is Dark and full of Terrors
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old Mar 1st, 2010, 10:11 AM
ArcaneLizard's Avatar
ArcaneLizard ArcaneLizard is offline
Very Old Dragon
 
Tools
User Statistics
Last Visit: Jun 20th, 2010
RPXP: 244
ArcaneLizard ArcaneLizard ArcaneLizard
Posts: 690
That's why I theorized that the duration be divided evenly. It's not a failproof anti-exploitation device, but it helps downplay it.

Now I've got a question about Favored Souls. Don't they gain any bonus feats? I can't find any listing about it.
__________________
Hello peoples. Sorry I've been away, and sorry I'll stay away. One of my grades was lost on a bureoucratic mishap, and I've been trying to fix it, to no avail. I'll try to catch up when that is fixed, assuming my characters still live by then. Sorry again.
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old Mar 1st, 2010, 11:41 AM
Jondera's Avatar
Jondera Jondera is offline
FOR SCIENCE!
Good People  

Event Judge  

Former Staff
 
Tools
User Statistics
Last Visit: Feb 18th, 2023
RPXP: 11985
Jondera Jondera Jondera Jondera Jondera Jondera Jondera Jondera Jondera Jondera Jondera
Posts: 13,913
Favored Souls are in CDivine, so not OGL... however, I can answer your question without violating anything...

They get weapon focus and specialization in their deity's favored weapon. That's it.
__________________
Are you on Steam? Join our Steam group! (Currently under construction, but open for membership)
Like folk music? Interested in Swedish folk culture? I have videos on Youtube.
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old Mar 1st, 2010, 11:47 AM
Asztirejan's Avatar
Asztirejan Asztirejan is offline
If it swells, ride it
 
Tools
User Statistics
Last Visit: Mar 7th, 2010
RPXP: 240
Asztirejan Asztirejan Asztirejan
Posts: 513
No.

Why would they gain bonus feats?

The reason you can't find any listing is because there is none.

Well, for a truly complete answer, in theory an epic favored soul would acquire bonus feats and would thus have a bonus feat list, although I've never seen it. A quick check online could probably tell you whether or not an official epic favored soul progression has been released.

As for the question of magical effects in regard to an ooze splitting, this is just my personal opinion, and I doubt you guys will agree--but I've always ruled that when an ooze splits, the resulting "new" oozes are treated as literally "new" creatures. Anything effecting the "parent" ooze just effectively dissipates when the splitting occurs; thus the "new" oozes don't come into play under any pre-existing effects or conditions.

If you check the features of the Ooze type, you'll find that oozes are unaffected by most kinds of detrimental conditions, and although they aren't officially immune to spells such as ray of enfeeblement I've always houserules that the vast majority of non-damaging spells and effects just don't work on them. To me, this is just a natural extrapolation of the existing game rules (immunity to stunning, polymorph, critical hits, etc.) and the sensical assertion that an ooze is about as basic and simple a creature as it gets, and therefore just isn't affected by much other than pure damage. I suppose an argument could be made for a spell such as ray of enfeeblement--after all, there's no reason why strength-diminishing magic wouldn't work on anything--but I wouldn't worry about adjudicating that until and unless it came up in play, which is pretty unlikely in the first place.

In my experience, the universal method of dealing with oozes is straight damage anyway--I've never seen someone try to cast non-damaging spells on oozes. Why bother? Just stay out of range and nail them with ranged and area effect spells until they die. With their terrible initiative and speeds, unless you get taken by surprise you'd have to be either extremely stupid or extremely unlucky to actually end up in melee combat with one anyway.
__________________
Who says Dark Sun is dead?
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old Mar 2nd, 2010, 04:07 PM
Naresh's Avatar
Naresh Naresh is offline
Great Wyrm
 
Tools
User Statistics
Last Visit: Apr 27th, 2016
RPXP: 6365
Naresh Naresh Naresh Naresh Naresh Naresh Naresh Naresh Naresh Naresh Naresh
Posts: 18,545
Pathfinder: Dragon disciple Here

Quote:
A dragon disciple adds his level to his sorcerer levels when determining the powers gained from his bloodline. If the dragon disciple does not have levels of sorcerer, he instead gains bloodline powers of the draconic bloodline, using his dragon disciple level as his sorcerer level to determine the bonuses gained. He must choose a dragon type upon gaining his first level in this class and that type must be the same as his sorcerer type. This ability does not grant bonus spells to a sorcerer unless he possesses spell slots of an appropriate level. Such bonus spells are automatically granted if the sorcerer gains spell slots of the spell's level.
For what abilities does the DD add his levels to his sorcerer levels? Reading the first bit, it imples powers only, claws, wings, breath attack etc. But the next bit talks about gaining spells. This leads me onto feats, I assume they wouldn't gain feats, because DD has it's own class ability giving feats from the sorcerer draconic bloodline
__________________
The Phoenix also rises
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old Mar 2nd, 2010, 04:43 PM
Jondera's Avatar
Jondera Jondera is offline
FOR SCIENCE!
Good People  

Event Judge  

Former Staff
 
Tools
User Statistics
Last Visit: Feb 18th, 2023
RPXP: 11985
Jondera Jondera Jondera Jondera Jondera Jondera Jondera Jondera Jondera Jondera Jondera
Posts: 13,913
OK... After reading through both the DD entry and the Sorc entry, I've got it figured out.

If you have levels in Sorcerer, and then take levels in Dragon Disciple, you can add your DD level to your sorcerer level for the purpose of gaining Draconic Bloodline sorcerer abilities. For example, if a 5th level sorcerer starts taking levels in DD, then at Sorc5/DD2, they would gain a Bloodline Feat (just like a Sorc7 would), and at Sorc5/DD4, they gain a new bloodline power (just like a sorc9 would).

However, the bonus spells known granted by a bloodline are not learned unless the character can already cast spells of that level. For example, a Draconic Sorcerer 11 would usually learn the Spell Resistance spell, courtesy of their Bloodline. That spell, however, is 4th level, so while a Sorcerer5/Dragon Disciple 6 would normally gain all Bloodline abilities, they don't learn the Spell Resistance spell, because they cannot cast 4th level spells.

If, however, at some point in the future, they gain the ability to cast 4th level Sorc spells (say, through another PrC which grants sorc spellcasting), they would immediately learn Spell Resistance, in addition to any other 4th level spells they would know.

As for the feats... it looks to me like they would gain Bloodline feats from both sources... even a Sorc 10/DD 10 would only get 6 Bloodline feats (3 from sorc, 3 from DD), and there are 8 Draconic bloodline feats...

Does that clear it up for you?
__________________
Are you on Steam? Join our Steam group! (Currently under construction, but open for membership)
Like folk music? Interested in Swedish folk culture? I have videos on Youtube.
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old Mar 2nd, 2010, 04:46 PM
Naresh's Avatar
Naresh Naresh is offline
Great Wyrm
 
Tools
User Statistics
Last Visit: Apr 27th, 2016
RPXP: 6365
Naresh Naresh Naresh Naresh Naresh Naresh Naresh Naresh Naresh Naresh Naresh
Posts: 18,545
It does
Though I find it odd that you get feats from both sources...

Oh well, more power
__________________
The Phoenix also rises
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old Mar 2nd, 2010, 06:40 PM
jj_wolven's Avatar
jj_wolven jj_wolven is offline
*woof*
 
Tools
User Statistics
Last Visit: Mar 22nd, 2023
RPXP: 7922
jj_wolven jj_wolven jj_wolven jj_wolven jj_wolven jj_wolven jj_wolven jj_wolven jj_wolven jj_wolven jj_wolven
Posts: 18,890
You do not get the bonus feats, just the Bloodline Powers and the Bloodline bonus spells.

This was specified by Paizo in their forum errata.

-me
__________________
Fun Frog Facts:
The common species of frogs are unique in the animal kingdom because they are able to mate with either sex.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:12 PM.
Skin by Birched, making use of original art by paiute.( 2009-2012)


RPG Crossing, Copyright ©2003 - 2023, RPG Crossing Inc; powered by vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Template-Modifications by TMB