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  #61  
Old Nov 15th, 2021, 02:26 PM
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@S I'll just keep this secreted because the conversation started out that way above, and it still pertains to some of that.
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  #62  
Old Nov 15th, 2021, 03:02 PM
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@Phett
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Last edited by Saratek; Nov 15th, 2021 at 03:40 PM.
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  #63  
Old Nov 15th, 2021, 03:18 PM
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I suppose you may have a typo in my name there, as I can't see the secret text (no gm rights in an ad thread, sadly).
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  #64  
Old Nov 15th, 2021, 03:41 PM
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Something like that... Being in the Heroes game made me momentarily lazy when it came to the secret tags.
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  #65  
Old Nov 15th, 2021, 04:07 PM
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Your feedback didnít come across as a critic at all. I actually appreciate that you take the time to look at my character in depth. Your comments have been nothing but constructive as far as I am concerned.

I donít intend on changing Keishi too much really but I like to create and play characters that make sense and that are credible. I rushed a bit my first draft, and it showed. And yesterday, I was throwing things at the wall to see what was sticking and I got a bit excited.

The business to make money idea was just me trying to fit the narrative to meet the ambition of my character but it ignored a number of facts already established in the universe. Also, from the start, this ambition of Keishi to push the clan toward conquest was created in a vacuum, without taking into account the strengths and weaknesses of the clan.

As I mention earlier, I checked the Sword Chronicles rules about the noble houses yesterday and it gave me a more precise outlook on the clan situation. It also gave me new ideas on what Keishi can do to influence the power of the clan. Some that may be more logical for the type of character I am trying to create and that may also be more impactful at the clan level as well.

What I was thinking about was having him improve the stability of the region. In game term, the Law resource of the clan. He could be the captain of the guard and in some way keep his military ambitions.


With that in mind, I still have a few more things Iíd like to throw at the wall:

First, If Keishi had been granted an estate at the end of the civil war, would that necessary make him a vassal house that would have to be included as a Power item? Because obviously the clan doesnít have this kind of resource right now.

Second, I still like the idea of having Keishiís wife as an influence in his life and you writing about her not really being able to have as much of an impact on the story because she is an NPC (and that make total sense, mind you) made me think: what if? How would you feel about me spending a destiny point in the Cohort quality to have her as more than an NPC in game?
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  #66  
Old Nov 15th, 2021, 04:23 PM
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@S No problem, I have the same thing when secreting only to myself in my folders.



@Lunarc I was just writing a post to Saratek, so yours only showed up when I submitted that. I'm not ignoring you, I'll answer when I get home in a few hours. It'll be in a separate post, so no need to keep looking at this one for edits.

Last edited by Phettberg; Nov 15th, 2021 at 04:25 PM.
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  #67  
Old Nov 15th, 2021, 05:09 PM
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Huhu, no worries. I am not on a schedule here.
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  #68  
Old Nov 15th, 2021, 06:30 PM
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@Lunarc Now that I've got the time let me go through this: Fine to drop the mercantile angle, even though I thought that was quite a niche one.

I think focusing your character on a specific resource is not a bad idea either, that can be a very suitable guide to make something that may have similar abilities to other people but is still different.

Now the captain of the guard is a thought, but they are commanding a force that is entirely focused on the specific castle or town that they are defending and not that effective outside of it. That makes it hard to use them for things like bandit hunting in the hinterlands - they could actually be crushed badly in the wild. That's thinking a bit about the meta, but it's a good reminder that the guard's captain is very bound to the castle or town.

You might think about law a bit more literally, as in serving as a magistrate to advise the Clan on legal matters or to oversee some of the lands as something like a judge. There are scores of Samurai that fulfil functions like this in times of peace, serving as majors, sub governors, tax collectors, judges, advocates and so on. Some of these are more often jobs for the non-martial aristocracy, but those do not exist to the same extent in the countryside.

So what I'm saying is, you may want to consider creating a character that is not only focused on enforcing the law, but one who has actually studied it in detail. The guard is usually the executive, not expected to have in-depth knowledge of the ins and outs. It wouldn't take a huge investment to simulate this, at least a knowledge 3 and a speciality in law of one dice maybe.

That there have been two decades of peace (eight years for Tokunaga) is actually important to remember here - while the Samurai might rattle their swords, there has been a bigger need for administrators than warriors in many places these days. So just food for thought - there is no dearth of fighters in the group at the moment, and Samurai come in all shapes and sizes.

As for your other two questions: No, there is no need for a vassal house. If there had been enough resources for one then we could have talked about making this character the leader of said house, but at this point your character just has "some" land that sustains him - a small parcel on a rice field and a hut is all that is necessary for the status. That is to say, you do not need any qualities for this, I'll let you buy status 3 regardless. The other players are also assumed to have some unimpressive bit of the Clan lands that generates enough wealth to sustain them, but not too much more.

I never mentioned this anywhere specifically, but I don't need people to pick up "sponsor", then "landed", just so they can be considered samurai - because this is a world where there are thousands of samurai, a lot of which have at least a bit of land. In other settings, the ratio is different - lots of knights but few landed knights.

The wife would not be a cohort, as that represents a loyal servant - more like a bodyguard or page. However, even without a quality we can describe a wife (where she is from and what she is to her family) into existence, and that gives you an "in" during roleplay to work for certain things you otherwise could not achieve - i.e. you have somebody to ask for support that likes you where otherwise there would be nobody. It's not unlike some other character being the sibling, child, father of some NPC and therefore logically having an established relationship with them to exploit.

If you want something immediate I would pick a specific quality that gives you the thing that you want to gain from the wife, which we will then attribute it to her. For example, you could pick connections to a certain place or above-average wealth and say it's through your wife.

You could do the same for the land, by the way. Instead of having to create a vassal house, if your character has a lot of land or a specifically fertile one, then maybe that is how they got the wealthy quality.

Last edited by Phettberg; Nov 15th, 2021 at 06:32 PM.
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  #69  
Old Nov 16th, 2021, 12:44 PM
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Phettberg, I am sorry. You spent a lot of time answering my questions about Keishi, but I really feel that Saratek application make my character redundant here and let's be honest, I don't really want to have to compete against a player with his track record on the forum. So I am rinsing and repeating after all.


I have another character in mind. And hopefully, it will be a more straightforward to put together hopefully. I just need you to answer two more questions for me:

- I would like him to be a son of Shin'ichi, taken as child at the end of the rebellion and raised in the family by Ren as a not so subtle reminder of what happens to those who dare raise against him. Does it make sense?

I also would like the new Keishi to secretly be a sorcerer. Is it possible to learn magic from books in this universe?
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  #70  
Old Nov 16th, 2021, 01:24 PM
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Last edited by Sirius; Nov 21st, 2021 at 11:03 AM. Reason: Withdrawing application.
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  #71  
Old Nov 16th, 2021, 01:26 PM
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Lunarc: Due in part from my "track record on the forum", of which numbers lie when you consider how long I've been on this site, I can honestly say that I don't think there would have been any competition between our applications as I'm sure Phett doesn't look at applications for potential PCs that way.

I didn't see any issues with both of our PCs being accepted, and actually looked forward to such since the two would have had a commonality that could have bred a friendship unlike what could be made with others. Given their different origins, I easily saw them having different roles in the Clan as they would influence from different positions of prestige.

I would say that if you liked you original idea more, which could be evident from your lengthy discussions and musings on it, then you should go for it.

As most will tell you: make and play the character YOU want to play and will enjoy the most. Don't worry about other characters or "party composition". The GM, and especially Phett in this case, can always make sure that every PC gets moments to shine and be the character at the front and center of a scene.
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  #72  
Old Nov 16th, 2021, 01:34 PM
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@S ninja'd you. I might say something on this too at some point.

@L Well, I was trying to subtly and not so subtly point out how both the concepts could become their own thing, as they did not overlap everywhere. Picking where they didn't and focusing more on that would have been fine, but if you want to do something entirely new then go for it.

For the two questions:

I don't see a remaining child of Shin'ichi working in the game actually, for two reasons. I am not sure how it would be a reminder of a smashed rebellion more so than all the people that are dead and buried - Ren killed his own brother, had all the rebellious minor clans take their own lives, basically destroyed his own military power for a decade because he wanted to purge everything that was attached to this false notion that he should not be the Lord. It would seem strange to leave the one person alive that should be the Lord instead of him, would one subscribe to the notion that it was Shin'ichi's title by right. The intended implication was that the brothers family was killed as well, if that did not come across well.

Though assuming that he did, just as a testament that his rule is unassailable now and forever, the second reason I think it would be problematic is that the family would hate this character. Lots and lots of people died because of his father. Basically, I like to say "yes, but..." instead of no, but here it'd just be too much to deal with to actually run a group game.

About the sorcery - if you want secrecy then being a natural sorcerer might be the way to go, just somebody who figures these things out by themselves. There are books on magic, but they are not really for public consumption, in the sense that all the religions have their own rituals, plus some wise private masters. Rare that any are just kicking about, and if they are they are not easy to be just understood without some initiation. Natural sorcery is something only for people that are full or part Mononoke, but you could pick another entry point and say their sorcery is secret to the clan, not secret to everybody (as in, there is a master or organisation behind the scenes).

Last edited by Phettberg; Nov 16th, 2021 at 01:35 PM.
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  #73  
Old Nov 17th, 2021, 12:52 AM
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@Saratek: As I was informed by the person that welcomed me on the forum and by a couple of threads on the subject, one of the main risks to a game is players abandoning it. A good track record reduces this kind of risks and If I was in Phettberg shoes, I would much rather spend my time running the game than spend hours every other month recruiting new players that canít figure out their characters and have a hard time taking a hint. If he doesnít think like that, he certainly should.

I do agree with you about the roleplay implication of having 2 characters sharing the same original clan and the same interests and with most other archetypes, that wouldnít be a problem. You can have 2 warriors, 2 rogues, 2 sorcerers or 2 courtiers in a group and everyone would still all have their opportunity to shine but when time comes for line battles, in that game, you can only have one general. In that specific case you character would be general because of its superior status and mine would be relegated to provide yours with bonus dices for your Warfare rolls. And well... call me arrogant here - after all I am French Ė but I have higher expectations for my character.

And these considerations ignore the low military power of the clan. Expecting warfare in the game is already a long shot, so having 2 characters specializing in this ability doesnít make much sense.

Finally, I am already playing strategy game of sort here. There are 3 spots for 4 applications, and I see one too many arguments above in favor of my current character being the one kicked off.


@Phettberg: Oh I understood you were trying to steer me in these niches but I didnít know why, as your discussions with Saratek were hidden. In hindsight, I see a couple of the more subtle nudges here and there.

I think it simpler to restart form scratch. I had my vision for that character with a clear objective in mind. Making a trader or a lawman out of him was just a mean to an end. I still wanted him to be the general leading the army of the clan to war, if it ever came to that.

Ultimately, thatís not a big deal for me, I like to think that I can play any kind of character and the creation process is something that I thoroughly enjoy. Also, I was not emotionally attached to my would-be general, so he wonít be missed.


Now, as I mentioned earlier, I am increasingly aware that you may start to be frustrated with my antics. So, for the sake of your sanity, I encourage you to be blunt with me if I start pushing your button. I can most likely come up with a no question character.

In this line of thought, I will try to convince you once, below, that my character being Shin'ichiís son is a viable option. If I fail, I will just need an ďI am not convincedĒ and no other argument or justification from you, and I will drop it.


First, you tell me that everyone would hate the kid.
We are talking Theon Greyjoy living amongst the Starks here (Please, tell me I donít have to explain this reference). After the first few years of grief, I would expect most people with a modicum of grey matter to figure out that a 5 years old kid that never wielded a sword was not responsible for the death of thousands. I would understand not particularly liking him for what he reminds people of, but hating him for 15 years because of what his father did?! Really?

Now, assuming that after 15 years, everyone that had a loved one who died during the rebellion still hates him.
The current group is composed of 2 outsiders who donít have a ground to be emotionally involved, the third one is too young to understand the specificity of the situation. We have a potential fourth one that follows a school of thinking that states that bad karma accumulates even when someone has ill thoughts. And finally, we have Saratekís character that didnít lose a close family member that we know of during the rebellion. I donít see why the groupís dynamic would be really impacted here.


Then, you ask: why would Ren have kept the son of his rebellious brother as a ward? And Iíll ask you, why do warlords generally display the banners of the clans they defeated as trophies?

The rebellion may have been a dark time in the clan history, but it was also an incredible victory for Ren. With close to no support, and with no military power of his own he was still able to pull off a win.

After the rebellion, with a depleted military and potential power-hungry neighbors on the prowl, he would have used all the tools at his fingertips to remind everyone that he was no easy picking. Now, he could not display his own clan battle flag as a trophy. But the next best thing could be a living banner, a breathing reminder that he single-handedly achieved victory when all odds were stacked against him.

That's my speech!


And thanks for the precision about sorcery. I will go with the natural sorcerer option. That makes more sense with what i have in mind.
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  #74  
Old Nov 17th, 2021, 01:07 AM
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NAME: Toshiro
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CORE Concept: A brutish man, often dismissed as ignorant or slow when actually he is not. He respects might and sees the Samurai as the ideal, and one that can lead to a path of honor and privilege in the clan. But now he is an armorer making armor and weapons for the clanís fighter. One day he hopes to see himself in full armor with a Katana raised over his head leading troops forward in battle.
He smiles to himself at these thought as he pounds on a blade fresh from the fire and watches the sparks fly.

Toshiro is large with broad shoulders and muscular arms and hands, crisscrossed with burns from forging iron. Although large he moves with a easy grace especially at his forge. His face, while not handsome is fair, except for a scar from his left forehead to the cheek below missing the eye which is clear and light in color, unusual in an Oni. His speaking voice is deep and he speaks slowly, almost like he is weighing each word. While working he hums to himself and has been heard to sing softly as if he is singing to the iron as forges it.

Personal goals: Toshiro is an artist at heart and hopes to forge fine weapons for Samurai to use defending the clan. Secretly, his hope that he becomes a Samurai and defends his liege lord in battle,
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  #75  
Old Nov 17th, 2021, 02:59 AM
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@Lunarc: I'm a little disappointed, but not surprised you have that thinking on recruitment. While players disappearing from games is an issue, it isn't solely one seen by newer members to the site. Members of all activity levels and participation time disappear for a myriad of reasons. I've quit games I wasn't feeling after short stints, but I've also watched games I've played in die because the DM that has been part of RPGX for years and had good post rates suddenly disappeared. If DMs didn't take chances on new players, you couldn't see them become good, consistent and dedicated members of the community. Having played under Phett and DMs like them, I know they don't consider membership time a factor in their choosing. Most DMs judge based on the application and interest shown by the player, and I highly doubt anyone could complain about either of those measures given how you've presented yourself thus far.

Secondly, on your concern about duties when it comes to warfare, you're assuming that I would require or muscle my way in on such a role. It's, honestly, much to the contrary for me. I'd much rather have my character assist or stand silently by if it allows another PC to shine. It comes from a mix of wanting to bolster others and laziness on my part. I didn't imagine my character in this leading from the front, like I suspect you would. Taichi is going to be more focused on "wheeling and dealing" to get that military might that the Clan was promised, while in times of conflict operating from a war table as opposed to out in the field. In such a case, I very much see your character being the one rolling and me assisting.

Thirdly, no one should worry about the secreted convo. I'm looking to make a direct replacement for the heir PC that disappeared that could be slid in without any issues, so our entire conversation was me making sure I have all of the pre-established details right and am not going to mess up any of the timeline with my character. There's a lot of options I limited myself from by choosing this character type over others, but I could see by the game that there really should be one. From what I can tell by all of the other applicants, the details of our conversation would have zero impact on any others given I was making a direct blood relative. The conversation started and continued secreted because I didn't want to influence any others with it, because I don't ever wish to hinder the creativity of another.

Finally, be confident in whatever you write, whether that be an app or in-game post. If it is a character or idea you want to push because its what you want, don't doubt. That confidence will shine through in your writing, and others will recognize it. That confidence will take you much further than "playing the odds".

I hope.you settle on the character you want to play most. I would also advise you to calm your concerns about your chance of being selected. This is a very niche system, and those tend to not get a lot of attention. Generally speaking, I doubt we'll get more than 5 or 6 completed applications in here. We may already gained all of the interest for such a game that's out there. No matter what you apply with, if you show the same interest and dedication to seeing your application come together as you have information seeking, I have few doubts that Phett or any DM would not select you. It's much more difficult to find players as invested as you have presented than you might assume, and, as a former DM myself, DMs LOVE players that are invested and excited for the game. They tend to stick around and engage in the game better.

Regardless of whether any of this influences you, I do hope you the best in finding the character you can have the most joy playing, and hope that the RPGX community can be a welcoming home for you and anyone that gives us a chance.
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