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  #1  
Old 04-16-2019, 09:18 PM
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Notre Dame de Paris

In case you haven't seen it: Notre Dame de Paris, the famed French cathedral, caught fire and was at least partially destroyed.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/notre-...side-1.5099419

At least part of the reason I enjoy fantasy as a genre is the "great civilization has been lost" trope - think the Fellowship of the Ring going down the river and seeing those gigantic statues at the falls of Rauros.

I'm not Catholic but find the loss (even partial) of an almost 900-year-old cathedral to be very sad . I'm glad I was able to see it - it may not be properly restored for many many years.

Last edited by astra; 04-16-2019 at 09:18 PM.
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Old 04-17-2019, 12:01 AM
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As a safety manager, I find the loss very, very, very likely to have been preventable.

I would bet the root cause will be found to be a welding/soldering operation, with a lack of fire watch and control.
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Old 04-17-2019, 04:17 AM
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I wouldn't worry about it honestly. There are hardly any completely original - as in without any rebuilt, replaced or remodelled parts in it - churches in the old world left, and this one as well will be rebuilt and look as good as it ever did. And it will still have plenty of old stones in it too - because those did not burn away. A church fire generally wreaks havoc on the roof, because underneath there is where you get most of the wood - so most of the buildings substance is left blackened but otherwise untouched.

As far as I am aware they were doing restauration works on it anyway - which meant they had removed a lot of the outside statues of the location in question. These are things that are harder to replace if lost. On the pictures I saw the spire above the crossing fall, but it's one of the best documented churches in paris, so that as well will be put up in exactly the same way again, using some of the old material.

So a tragedy, but one that will be reversed. But I'm with Dirk on this one also, it was surely preventable.
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Old 04-17-2019, 09:06 AM
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Well I wouldn't say I'm worried about it but I do have a cousin who's a structural engineer and he was telling me that often in large fires not only the mortar but the stones themselves can be structurally compromised due to the intense heat.

So I think Macron's 5-year timeline for rebuilding is a little optimistic. It took them 10 years just to widen a three-kilometre stretch of highway near me :P
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Old 04-17-2019, 10:01 AM
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The thing that has bothered me the most is they way people in the media are pronouncing it.

It's cool if you want to pronounce it the American way -- "Noter DAme".
It's fine if you want to pronounce it in the proper French - "Notra Daaame".
But nothing drives me crazier than people that can't make up their mind. "Noter Daaame".
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Old 04-17-2019, 10:29 AM
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Squeak's spot on. I'd also like to add that it's cool to pronounce it the way your region pronounces it. From Texas? I'm fine with you saying "Nodur Damn". But when you heap a spoonful of fake affectation and break your current accent to throw in an alveolar trill, and a an extended "aaah", and I'm done with you. ex: "Hey Jessica. Yeah, there's a huge tragedy here today in Paris at the Cathedral of Not<r>e Daaaaahhhhm..." Ugh.
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Old 04-17-2019, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astra View Post
Well I wouldn't say I'm worried about it but I do have a cousin who's a structural engineer and he was telling me that often in large fires not only the mortar but the stones themselves can be structurally compromised due to the intense heat.

So I think Macron's 5-year timeline for rebuilding is a little optimistic. It took them 10 years just to widen a three-kilometre stretch of highway near me :P
Your friend is correct: If you use a standard Portland Mortar (ie, cement of some standard type) between the stones, it can lose a lot of strength in a really hot fire. It loses the crystalline structure that gives it strength, and becomes weak (crumbly). You typically need somewhere over 1400 degrees F, but a fire can easily do that.
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Old 04-19-2019, 12:13 PM
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The damage to the building is very sad, but the really important thing is that nobody was killed and I don't think anyone was even hurt. I appreciate history and art and medieval architecture very much--I studied history and have a Master's degree in it. I'm also a Catholic, so I felt the loss in that respect as well. But churches can be rebuilt, and human life is far more important than things. So mostly I am just grateful and relieved.

Last edited by ruffdove; 04-19-2019 at 12:15 PM.
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Old 04-19-2019, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Admin Dirk View Post
As a safety manager, I find the loss very, very, very likely to have been preventable.

I would bet the root cause will be found to be a welding/soldering operation, with a lack of fire watch and control.
Looks like current thoughts are an electrical short, so... I was incorrect.
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Old 04-20-2019, 07:02 AM
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I visited Noter Daaame about a year and a half ago, it was incredible. I read that funds are quickly funneling back in, full force, to restore it in response to the fire, so I'm sure they will take extra care this time to reinforce it responsibly. The building can't stand forever, it simply can't, but at least they're doing all they can to keep it up in our life time. Just please just don't burn it down again!
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