[OOC] General Discussion

[sanitas infirma]

@ Beez: Here are a few more collected rules to help you get started (unfortunately the brainstorming for this game took place throughout many pages of the OOC and Q&A thread, in addition to the rules in the Information thread).

On that note, while I cannot speak for Pendragon, I don't think that a district based upon undead labor is practical given the costs. The population of each district is around 40,714 people, and hiring PC classes to work for a district costs 50gp per level, so hiring enough necromancers/clerics to manage an undead workforce large enough to feed and staff your district alone (never mind exporting) would be prohibitively expensive. Sorry .

Originally Posted by sanitas infirma

There's no specific list for what districts can cover, beyond player interest and common sense.

As for caster integration into districts, the vast bulk of your forces will probably be npc classes with adepts providing most of the magic. PC classes can be hired at a cost of 50gp per level per month (which will quickly eat into your income, if its anything like ours) compared to 1gp+0.5*lvl gp per month for npc classes (or .05gp+0.25*lvl gp per month for militia, npc classes which take time to muster). You must also pay to equip your forces out of your starting gold, but at half cost for non-magical equipment due to subsidizing from Kingdom.

Powerful spells and magical items are purchased at full market price, probably after much searching for a caster powerful enough to provide them. Note that two of your fellow district leaders are powerful casters in their own right, one arcane and one divine, and both of themhave connections to other casters .

Some other useful notes:
- Starting level is nine, starting personal wealth is 250,000gp, and abilities are determined by 3D4+6 with one reroll if needed. If you do not roll an 18 you can replace your lowest roll with an 18 instead.
- You have 4 million gold to build your district, which houses around 40,714 people (exact population and demographics up to you). You are responsible for paying for housing out of your district funds, but grand houses and houses can be subdivided to shelter 20 and 5 people respectively. You also begin with a free Governor's Mansion in the capital of your district, and are encouraged to use your personal funds make personal contributions to your district.
- Information on building costs can be found in the information thread

[Beez]

Yeah, I planned on looking into it more to see how much it would cost. Animate Dead is actually under the Adept spell list as well, so I might be able to do something with that. If I have to, I'll have a mix. Not sure yet how many farmers it takes to feed a population, haven't looked at that yet.

[Yuul]

Those are pretty high up in the adept level though, like 7 or 8.

Honestly I'm not sure why the kingdom would accept such open necromancy though. Carradyn is not likely to favor you at all, and Quinn(Neqq's character) is likely to have a much worse opinion.

[Beez]

Got my questions answered. Lesser Animate Dead for 2nd level spell, 4th level adepts. It'll take under 1000 gold per month to feed my district, about 700 by current back-of-the-napkin calculations, depending on how I build them, and they're able to flex into military should we have an emergency.

Maybe it's accepted because it's not evil, doesn't keep the souls from judgement, and the goddess accepts it? It's also on a completely voluntary basis, minus potential extreme-emergency drafts, so there's that as well.

[Yuul]

There was once ONE Paizo method for necromancy creating creatures that weren't evil(Juju Oracle), but they retconned that a long time ago. So the undead will likely still be evil.

Alternatively, you could take one of my own backup ideas. Maintain a positive(or at least neutral) appearance and personality by day, and keep the necromancy has some secret thing your character and his followers and recruits do at night or in secret.

[Beez]

Homeruled to be not evil, as per Pen, luckily. Also, I'm White Necro, so that's not evil as well.

[Pendragon]

Yuul, he is making a goddess of life and death and undead will be entering into a voluntary contract, more neutral than evil. I would say that Beez district was stricken by a plague that luckily didn't spread, but out of need the dead have been raised to aid those that remain. Interesting idea.

[sanitas infirma]

If alignment is to be houseruled as a roleplaying choice rather than a mechanical one, would it be possible to take the stats for demons and devils and put a neutral alignment on them? Essentially rebrand outsiders generically as 'spirits' running the whole range of alignments so that enterprising conjurors have summoned muscle when needed without having to worry about ethical considerations?

Come to it actually, if level 4 adepts are all that are needed for mass-reanimation of a free undead workforce/militia, and if there is no prejudice in the land against the walking dead or sentient undead, then all magically-inclined districts might profit from employing them. Is there a reason why they haven't?

[Beez]

Wasn't there a whole class based around "I summon demons to do good things, and force them to do so against their will, so I'm not evil"? I'd imagine that line of thought could be used similarly. Anything else would be Pen's domain.

For the second, I can't completely answer that at the moment, it'd take some thought. Though I am partial to the whole plague idea. Maybe it became necessary only recently, and it hadn't occurred to us prior. If that's to be a thing, I could maybe take a hit to population size, if necessary.

Also, just because there's no prejudice from the religious side doesn't mean there wouldn't be prejudice from others, either because they're living and find it icky, or they think it's a blow against nature, or some other reason. It could very well be that my welcoming of necromancy makes me not as welcome in the eyes of some of the other councilors.

[Pendragon]

I see your point Sanitas. But what Beez is asking for isn't so far of a stretch, it is one thing to reach out to a powerful extraplanar being and another to raise someone from the dead to be a mostly mindless and in Beez' case mostly harmless undead. I am not removing all alignment restrictions, I am just making the followers of Beez character able to make soft and cuddly undead. The main reason I am going for it is the character is a white necromancer and his clerics/adepts will follow a neutral goddess of life and death.

You can always try and work out a "flesh trade" with Beez' character (this is verging on evil, but I think it may pass as neutral), but undead raised in the traditional manner would be evil. The key to Beez' character coming into power was that he stepped up with a solution to a decimated population. I am not saying your characters would be ok with it, but it works for his district design.

[Yuul]

Okay, finished updating my section of the map, added Carradyn's Retreat, gave general locations/areas for Vineyards, Sheep farming, and Food Farming, as well as individual locations for all 5 mining complexes.

[sjsilver]

So it seems as I'm coming back all be is on the Island of Ice so bit of demotion I guess as Pen put it but I see no reason not to given Beez work.

Sadly this also means no more Von Ruuth Banking as most people have dissolved there branches that's no real work for them. I have most of tomorrow of beyond a management meeting in the AM but afterwards I'll be quickly at work at rebuilding a different district. This one should come together quickly *crosses fingers* since I've made one before.

Sad top loose all the work, please don't delete the Von Ruuth post until I have a chance to save it somewhere else.

[Yuul]

Regardless of the alignment of the undead, Carradyn will still frown on the practice.

[Beez]

I could see a Von Ruuth Banking still, Silver. I mean, is a large tract of land necessary to run a bank?

Id've taken the island if I'd known you were coming back. Ice isn't a large problem for undead.

Actually... How much land *is* there on that island? Enough to farm, as I'd planned? Even if there were a single other counselor willing to let me farm their land for a share of the food, that would still work nicely, and it'd explain why the plague didn't spread. Pen, any thoughts on the matter?

[Yuul]

Perhaps, a trade might make sense.

But as far as the banks go, you will have to hammer out new deals for the branches silver. I have already respent the personal money I used up on the bank, and at this juncture would charge(tax really) a small portion of the bank's profits if you wanted to build one in Argent. Call it a penalty tariff for unfair dealings in the past.

Even if we are resetting the time line.

Oh, and Pen, when you get a moment remember to update Carradyn's private income in the private thread.