[OOC] Word on the street

[hafrogman]

Originally Posted by Roekahs

For some reason I am drawn to Cole here. The proposal for that would be something like: Cole is recently returned to being a mortal and is doing his best to protect Victor from getting caught up the way he did back in the day. On the other hand, Victor is young and curious and gung-ho and getting himself caught up in all the stuff before it even filters to Cole.

Yes. I think Cole made an honest effort at mentoring but is such a bad teacher (Or Victor is such a bad student. Or both) that Victor ended up being a lightning rod for all sorts of trouble that might otherwise have ended up on Cole’s doorstep. Cole feels a little bad about how things worked out, but not bad enough to actually change the situation.

Originally Posted by Elanir

Cole is the direct descendant of Anne’s husband, Thomas Beall, who remarried some time after shooting his wife. Anne has a love-hate relationship with Cole, as she did with his father and generally with all of Thomas Beall’s descendants. In fact, it is possible that she had something to do with the death of Cole’s father - she needn’t have caused it, but she was somehow involved. Cole’s patron protected the Veteran from the Spectre’s interference, but now that he doesn’t benefit from such supernatural powers, Anne makes her presence felt, possibly more often than Cole would have liked. At the same time he could be feeling sorry for her. Did she deserve death at the hands of her husband for having been mentally ill?

Yes, but I do think it's important that his father's death remains a mortal failing, without any supernatural influence to blame. Perhaps the descent comes through his mother? How does Anne feel about her husband's female descendants? Perhaps Cole still remembers stories his maternal grandfather told about being haunted.

One note, one feature of Cole’s workshop is magical wards that may hamper Anne’s ability to interfere with his work. Still perfectly free to haunt him the rest of the time, though.

Originally Posted by wodine

Cole.

– A Letter

My Dear Sir,
I wish to enlist the services of one, such as yourself, to provide a service of which I am confident that you possess the necessary skills and abilities to complete with the utmost discretion. I am, of course, making reference to your skills and abilities with which you excelled at your previous position, though I do not doubt that you also make a fine tailor. There is a man to whom I have grown oddly attached and he is in the profession of finding himself in unnecessary danger, particularly when it comes to issues that are outside of his traditional occupational jurisprudence. I must reiterate for both our sakes that you should not interfere with his work, lest any of our connections come to light in an unflattering manner, but instead ensure that any interactions with those shadows of which we exist within, are not altogether unpleasant. I am not asking you to do this out of charity. The margins in fashion are now, and have always been, rather small for one of such skilled craft, and enclosed with this letter you will find 3000 American, as well as a small key. Consider this original sum a thank you for taking the time to read this letter, should you agree to my request, you will find this same sum on the 1st of the month, every month for as long as you remain in my employ in the matching PO box at 1400 L St NW Lbby 2. The name of the individual I wish for you to protect is also currently in the PO box. Should you retrieve that envelope I will consider that as acceptance of this request.
Warm Regards,
فرهاد

– A Second Letter
Special Agent Daniel Kensington[/fieldset]

Maybe? My main concern here is that Cole no longer really has access to the "skills and abilities" of his previous position. That doesn't mean he couldn't be providing protection, just that it would of necessity be of a subtler sort. His workshop has magical wards (That he presumably placed himself. Maybe. Note to self: discuss the nature of magic with the group.) He could have warded the agent's home, perhaps revisiting monthly under the guise of pest control. If this strays too far from your thoughts, Cole may not be the best fit, but I'm happy to tweak.

My only other thought is that if you're paying Cole, it's not really a debt. I think he may have done it for other reasons. We'll circle back to this in a moment when I get to my debts.

Someone relies on you for training or knowledge. They owe you 2 Debts. So Victor's "training" has already been covered. In the interest of spreading it around, @Vislands what do you think about Brassavola for this. Definitely more on the knowledge side than training. One of Cole’s regular customers is a fae lordling, a clothes horse and inveterate gossip. He cannot help but yammer about all of the goings on in the courts during his fittings. Brassavola in turn uses Cole as a way to keep informed of such matters without involving or exposing herself to the courts themselves.

You’re working on something big for someone, and it’s nearly ready. They owe you a Debt. @jbear How would Andre feel about a costume that doesn't look like he made it himself? Because he didn't. Cole has never been a fan of professional wrestling, but he ended up at a local amateur performance. (Bout? Whatever they call it.) He got overly invested in the costuming... but that wolf. Cole just knew he could make something inspired using the same basic concept, but a touch more skill.

Someone keeps pulling your ass out of the fire. You owe them 2 Debts. Something our illustrious MC said made me want to reinterpret this. Rather than a metaphorical fire, perhaps someone pulled Cole's ass out of the much more tangible hellfire, playing a role in Cole’s emancipation (and knowing more of the actual events than just rumor). @wodine From a timing, influence and power standpoint, Farhad feels like the best bet here, providing access to an ancient tome or perhaps some rare ritual components that enabled or aided Cole in slipping the bonds of his contract. It does make for a slightly reflexive pair of debts, but I feel like the story beats make up for that.

Cole comes to Farhad seeking aid as someone knowledgeable enough to have value, independent enough to not already be invested in one side or another and established enough to not become a target of retribution. Then, with a prior relationship already established, Farhad can simply ask for Cole’s aid regarding his agent associate. Or, maybe not even ask, just sort of... hint at.

Interesting wards you have here. I wonder if I could get something similar in place for... a friend of mine."

Then Cole hops at the chance to offer his assistance in a hope to somewhat level the playing field between them.

[Wynamoinen]

By the way, please "ping" me with a bold @Wynamoinen if you want my thoughts in these debt discussions. For the most part, I want to trust you guys to build the stories that work for your characters. So I plan on mostly taking a viewer's perspective here. But I'll add my thoughts, if you want them (or if I see a critically-necessary place to step in).

I don't see anything that needs my intervension so far. But @wodine and @Elainir, Anne the spectre has three lost artifacts built into her playbook, one of them the weapon used in a notorious murder that, hm who knows?, might have acquired some magical properties after such traumatic events. I'd love to see that in the hands of the Ordo Draconis.

[wodine]

Originally Posted by hafrogman

Maybe? My main concern here is that Cole no longer really has access to the "skills and abilities" of his previous position. That doesn't mean he couldn't be providing protection, just that it would of necessity be of a subtler sort. His workshop has magical wards (That he presumably placed himself. Maybe. Note to self: discuss the nature of magic with the group.) He could have warded the agent's home, perhaps revisiting monthly under the guise of pest control. If this strays too far from your thoughts, Cole may not be the best fit, but I'm happy to tweak.

Oh perhaps my letter wasn’t adequate – Fahrad didn’t mean physical protection, more like guidance. A gentle steering away from the supernatural. Agent Kensington is FBI so like, he can take care of himself if he runs into a robber, less so if he runs into a pack of hungry vampires while investigating something mortals are better off not knowing about. So pest control would work, or even being his tailor which could be covered with the money (below). “Give him a good suit but charge him for off the rack.”

Originally Posted by hafrogman

My only other thought is that if you're paying Cole, it's not really a debt. I think he may have done it for other reasons. We'll circle back to this in a moment when I get to my debts.

Oh, well maybe Cole wouldn’t consider it a debt but Fahrad certainly would. Fahrad would see it as… social lubricant, like inviting you over for tea. Well maybe not tea. Unless he really likes you. But if you think that’s too much, we can certainly remove the payment.

I picked Cole since he seemed the most able to actually protect someone without putting them in significantly more danger.

Originally Posted by hafrogman

Someone keeps pulling your ass out of the fire. You owe them 2 Debts. Something our illustrious MC said made me want to reinterpret this. Rather than a metaphorical fire, perhaps someone pulled Cole's ass out of the much more tangible hellfire, playing a role in Cole’s emancipation (and knowing more of the actual events than just rumor). @wodine From a timing, influence and power standpoint, Farhad feels like the best bet here, providing access to an ancient tome or perhaps some rare ritual components that enabled or aided Cole in slipping the bonds of his contract. It does make for a slightly reflexive pair of debts, but I feel like the story beats make up for that.

You had Fahrad at Ancient Tome.

“Come, I have the perfect text from the Tomb of Shahanshah Brahm V. Now tell me, do you have access to a lion…” Fahrad placed a warm arm around Cole's shoulders as the gentleman led the Veteran into the back room.

@Wynamoinen Is it alright that our debts are tit for tat or would you rather I redirect my protection debt to someone else. Perhaps Brassavola. I did make reference to working with the Fae in my backstory so I think she’s the most logical second.

[Elanir]

@Wodine, Hafrogman, Wynamoinen: I modified my original post to reflect your suggestions. Tell me what you think!

[Wynamoinen]

@Elanir & wodine: I'm fine with moderating the "stolen" bit of the debt to be more of a "contentious chain of posession" issue, if the rest of the new proposal is fine with y'all

Originally Posted by wodine

@Wynamoinen Is it alright that our debts are tit for tat or would you rather I redirect my protection debt to someone else. Perhaps Brassavola. I did make reference to working with the Fae in my backstory so I think she’s the most logical second.

I'm not going to say "no, never"; I'm sure there can be compelling reasons to have criss-cross debts. But I will say that I have a strong preference that we avoid them, at least initially. They don't exactly cancel out if debts are mutually held, but they do hold less impact since there is less imbalance of power. And I'd like to create as much reason for PCs to interact as possible. So I'm just going to say: avoid tit for tat debts as we begin where possible or practicable. If there's another reasonable way to assign debts, please try. If not, it's not a huge problem.

[Roekahs]

Originally Posted by hafrogman

Yes. I think Cole made an honest effort at mentoring but is such a bad teacher (Or Victor is such a bad student. Or both) that Victor ended up being a lightning rod for all sorts of trouble that might otherwise have ended up on Cole’s doorstep. Cole feels a little bad about how things worked out, but not bad enough to actually change the situation.

I almost want to call this something like they are "talking past each other", which is probably just semantics for saying they are both at fault: Cole has his experiences and does his level best to generalize them to Victor's experiences... but generalizing means losing specificity and Victor maybe ends up having the lesson Cole was trying to teach click just as **** hits the fan. Regardless of how it ends up flavored (we will likely find the "voice" for the relationship as we get into the game), this one seems settled!

Originally Posted by Elanir

Victor & Anne: You're leveraging dirt you have on someone to get their help with something. You owe them a debt.

Yes (!), but…

Normally, Anne isn’t interested in what others think or say about her. Her name has been whispered in horror or openly cursed more times than she cares to recall. But there is one person she doesn’t want to find out the truth about her - Annie Hayes, a descendant of her favorite sister, Mary Adelaide. Annie’s forefathers came to the States generations after Anne, but the girl was born in DC and was even given Anne’s name. This is merely a coincidence, but in the Spectre’s mind, searching for hidden truths that aren’t always there, this is a gesture made to honor her. The twelve-year-old girl is nothing like Anne was at her age, but the spirit has a soft spot for her. While doing research for a school project, Annie has recently become aware of her distant ancestor, who lived in the same city as her, and decided to learn more, if she could. Anne does her best to sabotage the girl’s search and has even succumbed to Victor’s extortion, who threatened to help Annie find more about her infamous ancestor, though she does bear a grudge about it.

If Victor knows Anne's history and hasn't told anyone, that would seem to imply that most people - possibly including all/most of the other PCs - are not fully aware of Anne's history - or at the very least have not made the connection between the spectre and the old story. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me, but I just want to make sure that jives with your intentions for the character and relationships.
Scratch that. I am mixing up debts. This is dirt, not secrets. I think it works as you described.

Originally Posted by wodine

Well, that was quite rude. What's a poor guy got to do to make a living in this town?! I do think this puts an interesting twist on things - Victor has been forced away from selling drugs reliably, so he has been looking for other "quick cash" type schemes and is beginning to dabble in the art of selling "black market" supernatural "drugs". I don't know that this is specifically supernatural narcotics or whatever, but more related to the concept of black market drugs than to the concept of black market really-really-cool-artifacts side of the supernatural


p.s. just noting that I am still holding on to the last Aware debt as the dust settles a bit here: someone told you their secrets and you haven't told anyone yet.

[hafrogman]

Originally Posted by Elanir

@Wodine, Hafrogman, Wynamoinen: I modified my original post to reflect your suggestions. Tell me what you think!

Looks great! Calling this one done.

Originally Posted by Elanir

... his mother -Cole doesn’t mention her at all, I think. Why?-

I originally had her be the one who committed suicide, but I decided on reconnecting with his father through tailoring (and to avoid the fridging trope) and rewrote that section. So what about his mother? Ultimately his background doesn't have a specific niche for her to fill. Wynamoinen reminded me that this game is about a City, so there's my answer. She retired to Boca Raton (to get away from a ghost who had been plaguing her) and is not part of this story.

Originally Posted by Roekahs

Regardless of how it ends up flavored (we will likely find the "voice" for the relationship as we get into the game), this one seems settled!

Agreed. Calling this one done.

Originally Posted by wodine

Is it alright that our debts are tit for tat or would you rather I redirect my protection debt to someone else. Perhaps Brassavola. I did make reference to working with the Fae in my backstory so I think she’s the most logical second.

I don't think I can swap my "fire" debt without creating a double (pending acceptance of my proposals) or else I would volunteer. We'll get it hashed out one way or another, but I'm going to call this one up in the air until we firm up the precise relationship.

Originally Posted by Wynamoinen

So I'm just going to say: avoid tit for tat debts as we begin where possible or practicable. If there's another reasonable way to assign debts, please try. If not, it's not a huge problem.

I will be the first to admit that combinatorics was never my strong point, but I think doubling up may be impossible given the number of PCs and links involved (Unless we add NPCs to the mix).

@Wynamoinen Or are doubles okay, but just specifically avoid debts where we owe each other (barring the Aware's debt where it's built in)? So instead of two people owing each other, I might combine Cole's "you owe them two debts" along with Cole being the target of someone else's "they owe you one debt" so Cole ends up owing someone three debts.

[jbear]

Originally Posted by Elanir

You are haunting someone and they know it. You owe them a Debt.

Andre: Anne is fascinated by the relationship between Andre and his mother. Her illness reminds her of her own days of sickness during and after her pregnancy and she originally expected that Andre and his brother would make things worse for their mother. In fact she was about to attack the Wolf to keep him from harming the poor woman, when she realized that Becky was actually delighted to see him, having waited for him the whole day. Instead of harming the youth, she has been following him ever since, trying to understand what it is that makes him different from her own children, a source of strength and hope for his mother. She still hasn’t reached a conclusion. Perhaps she never will.

 

This is a great connection. I love it. So Andre's mother is aware of his transformations and accepts and protects him, even in her fragile state as he climbs up to her hospital room to visit her at night and make sure whatever or whoever plagues her has not come to finish the job.

I imagine Andre smells something on his mother that goes beyond a simple illness. Something supernatural. When he hunts he seeks out the source of that scent, an activity that has had little success up till now. I think there may be some similarity to Anne's scent which makes the hunt more confusing and difficult for Andre, accidentally leading him off track.

[jbear]

Originally Posted by hafrogman

You’re working on something big for someone, and it’s nearly ready. They owe you a Debt. @jbear How would Andre feel about a costume that doesn't look like he made it himself? Because he didn't. Cole has never been a fan of professional wrestling, but he ended up at a local amateur performance. (Bout? Whatever they call it.) He got overly invested in the costuming... but that wolf. Cole just knew he could make something inspired using the same basic concept, but a touch more skill.

 

Very cool idea. Perhaps when approached Andre confessed his needs with the suit are somewhat more complex than it appears. Andre has been attempting to make a suit (and failing) that can deal with his painful transformation (not ripping or shredding) and is able to make his wolf form look more like a cosplay suit than a true transformation so that he could wrestle in actual wolf form as many of the gigs are after dark.

That would give Cole a challenge on a whole other level with the suit and put Andre's debt with him to a very deep level.

[jbear]

My debts to solve are the following:

Debt 1 • Someone is hiding you from someone, or something, powerful. You owe them a Debt. @wodine Perhaps Fahrad. For some reason, I am imagining a Neverending Story scenario. Where a book with amazing pictures in the window of the shop caught Andre's eye or maybe he was ducking trouble like in the actual movie. Fahrah maybe sensed the chaos clinging to Andre. the residue of whatever plagues his mum. He left a book (Andre is obsessed with comics and drawings and illustrations that tell stories) deliberately for Andre to pinch. The book has an amulet on the cover that is unwittingly keeping him safe from some supernatural force that means Andre and his family harm.

Debt 2 • Someone hired you for a job and you ****ed it up. You owe them 2 Debts. @Vislands Maybe Brassavola: Maybe Andre was hired as part of a show. He hadn't considered the timing with his nightly transformations. He thought he could control it, but with all the heat of the club, the sweat, blood and passion pumping, the Wolf came out and ... a **** show ensued.

Debt OWED • Someone lives in your territory, benefiting from your protection. They owe you a Debt. @Roekahs Victor seems like he's struggling a bit financially. Maybe he lives in Anacostia, Andre's territory. Maybe one of the gangs had put a hit on him cos of some business at the police station which Andre shut down.

I believe this would give Andre some connection to each character.


Status: awaiting your replies

[wodine]

@Elanir Accepted.

@jbear, yes but... (I don't have time to make the addendums but it'll be mostly cosmetic.)

@hafrogman Accepting your debts, with my above addendum "Come, I have the perfect text from the Tomb of Shahanshah Brahm V. Now tell me, do you have access to a lion…” Fahrad placed a warm arm around Cole's shoulders as the gentleman led the Veteran into the back room."

I will withdraw my debt handed to you, so that we get more interconnectedness I'll probably come up with a similar pitch for Brassi.

When I get a chance I will be adding a debts page to my character thread for easier upkeep as the OOC is getting... crowded.

[Roekahs]

Originally Posted by jbear

I like the idea that Victor lives in Anacostia and has protection from Andre.

I guess the question I pose to you is: do you want the gangs to be a prominent player in Andre's story? I know they are the +crime, but are they more important to Andre's story than just that? I am only asking because I see you spent time fleshing out several other aspects of Andre's life with minimal focus on the gangs. If you definitely want them to be a big player, then I am absolutely on board to rope them into this debt and put Victor in their cross-hairs.

I did have another thought in case you want to keep the focus away from the gangs (not that they won't be fun playthings for Wyn), and more on some of the other aspects of Andre's story: Andre is protecting Victor from the FBI, which was set on his trail by Farhad. I think we probably have the FBI entwined in the story enough already, but just wanted to mention in case getting entangled in an awkward triangle was appealing to you .

[jbear]

Originally Posted by Roekahs

I like the idea that Victor lives in Anacostia and has protection from Andre.

I guess the question I pose to you is: do you want the gangs to be a prominent player in Andre's story? I know they are the +crime, but are they more important to Andre's story than just that? I am only asking because I see you spent time fleshing out several other aspects of Andre's life with minimal focus on the gangs. If you definitely want them to be a big player, then I am absolutely on board to rope them into this debt and put Victor in their cross-hairs.

I did have another thought in case you want to keep the focus away from the gangs (not that they won't be fun playthings for Wyn), and more on some of the other aspects of Andre's story: Andre is protecting Victor from the FBI, which was set on his trail by Farhad. I think we probably have the FBI entwined in the story enough already, but just wanted to mention in case getting entangled in an awkward triangle was appealing to you .

I would opt for the option that you feel is more fun for you. I haven't focused on the gangs to this point, but I think Andre is at a very naive point in his journey as a wolf. He might think he has settled things but it's a stewing pot waiting to overboil and make a mess.

Wyn suggested that maybe there is a supernatural element to the gangs. I thought that was a very cool suggestion and I have been letting that boil in my imagination. There is definitely room to develop their importance.

Having said that, triangles are fun. (not because I don't want to focus on the gangs; I'm very open to any and all story points and shy away from nothing). So my idea for Andre's hunt is that he hunts predators in his territory. Something like a Wolf version of Spiderman/Dexter mix ... a weird mix but hopefully it conveys my idea.

I think his Wolf forms allow him to sniff out the intention in someone's blood when they mean harm. So if the FBI agent was a monstrous predator, going beyond his role as a law enforcement agent, a psychopath using their position of power to hunt in their own way, he certainly could have come into Andre's radar and been shut down, thus unwittingly protecting Victor.

[wodine]

Brassavola is keeping a Special Agent Daniel Kensingtonmortal friend or family member safe on your behalf. You owe them a Debt.

Debt 3 Fahrad sipped his tea. He had meticulously placed two teacups on the table, one for himself and one for his guest. His was filled, ever so deliciously ironically, with tea from Yunnan, Se Zhong, Black Dragon. In the other he had poured fresh cream from a nearby dairy farm in Virginia, sweetened with honeycomb and raw honey. Fahrad didn’t know what to expect from Fae, but he knew enough to be polite. As he sipped his tea, uncrossed, and recrossed his legs, drinking in the woman who sat across from him as much as the tea. You’re not what I was expecting Miss… Fahrad waited for her to offer a name. Regardless, I have a proposition. I require someone with unique talents. I’ve grown rather fond of a particular human. A human with a penchant for sticking his nose where mortals would be better served minding their business. I need someone to be a… Peri… a Good Neighbor to him. Steer him away from the worst of it. Fahrad sipped his tea again as he let the request sink in. I, of course, offer recompense. A smile spread across Fahrad’s face, his teeth pearly white against his coppery skin, they almost looked like fangs.

[Roekahs]

@jbear - thanks for clarifying; I am good with the gangs, I was just trying to mold a story and didn't find a ton of info (definitely missed the supernatural bent), but there was a lot of other really good stuff so thought I would ask.

Originally Posted by jbear

I would opt for the option that you feel is more fun for you. I haven't focused on the gangs to this point, but I think Andre is at a very naive point in his journey as a wolf. He might think he has settled things but it's a stewing pot waiting to overboil and make a mess.

Wyn suggested that maybe there is a supernatural element to the gangs. I thought that was a very cool suggestion and I have been letting that boil in my imagination. There is definitely room to develop their importance.

I do like the supernatural element to this and the idea that both Victor and Andre might be naive together, but separately. Victor got tied up with the "mortal side" of the gangs selling drugs and guns (sort of unofficially, maybe even selling for both as time and supply dictated). Then the FBI came sniffing around. Both gangs were on edge, but Victor quickly pulled the plug on his business ventures to let things cool off. Of course, he still needed money and started selling the "supernatural" equivalent of specifics tbddrugs and gus, but this time he was doing it alone and was accidentally infringing on the gangs' sales. Stuff happens one night and Andre steps in on Victor's behalf. All Victor knows is that the gangs are both upset with him now, but he doesn't know that they are supernatural in nature and have a stake in the supernatural sales in the area. And Andre thinks he handled it that one time and that is that.