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  #151  
Old Jul 2nd, 2023, 10:05 AM
Roekahs Roekahs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbear View Post
Corruption: I don't yet understand the effect of corruption. I am literally as naive as Andre.
Corruption is, I think, the toughest piece of the game to grok. Just ask Elanir! Which is only to say that you aren't alone in not seeing the interplay of Corruption right out of the gates! I think we had several side discussions in my game that eased the mystique, and perhaps the apprehension, surrounding the unknown of "Corruption".

In an effort to ease some of that here as well, a couple simple explanations, but perhaps not so simple in uptake, so if anything doesn't make sense I am certainly happy to elaboratevery simple descriptions.
Mechanics of corruption - you can mark corruption 24 times in a game. there are some exceptions, but for simplicity these are your concept numbersThe 25th time you mark corruption you lose control of your character and you have to start a new one. In PbP marking corruption 25 times is a multi-year effort - I think we had 1 player get over 10 pips* marked (might have been Elanir) in well over a year. Just a note: filling the Corruption pips the first time is the slowest process. If you look at your Corruption moves likely all, but I am not going through every playbook just to verifymost mark Corruption on use. So once you get a Corruption move, it becomes a LOT easier to mark Corruption on command.
Narrative Corruption - Mechanically you have to retire your character but... why? If each pip of corruption marked represents giving in to your character's darker instincts - the Wolf to hunt, the Fae to manipulate through promises broken, the Veteran and Aware for getting way too entangled in the Shadows - then that much Corruption marked represents your character actually becoming the Monster they always had inside. They are no longer under any kind of "societal norms" control; their decision-making process is one-dimensional. They are the junkie. They ARE the thing that goes bump in the night.

tl;dr - marking Corruption is not something to shy away from, the leash is pretty long before you would have to retire... and the narrative juice is super tasty!


*pips (maybe obvious, but just in case): the little empty boxes to be marked. E.g., the Corruption advancement has 5 pips, then they get cleared upon picking a Corruption advance and then filled again. Rinse repeat.
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  #152  
Old Jul 2nd, 2023, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbear View Post
@Roekahs Thank you for your feedback! I don't really know what I am doing so it's really helpful! I will take that into consideration going forward when a hunt is declared or not.

Intention: I think Andre is going into this with good intentions which may not line up with the Hunt narrative Roekahs describes. Should I be making a keep calm roll instead maybe? His intention is to take out the weak minions so that he can face their leader and get some idea of why they were looking for him first.
Oh, yes, we missed a key feature: you chose the option "When you transform, you keep your cool or declare a hunt." So you absolutely should make that roll. You're going to be cracking some heads, so making your Let it Out roll was appropriate for the first round of action. And establishing that you don't necesarily WANT to go all-out means that given the choice, you wouldn't want to Declare a Hunt. But you might not have a choice! So please do make that "keep your cool" move roll, as well.

In terms of Corruption: again, I'm on board with what Roe wrote. Corruption is meant to be seductive. It's an easy route to power, and initially, corruption does makes you more powerful. But once you walk the Dark Path.... Anakin Skywalker and Sith Lords and all of that. Once you're a Sith Lord, you're no longer a PC and I'd take the character away from you. You've pretty literally lost your humanity at that point. That's how I think of corruption, as a loss of humanity (and tbh Andre seems like he's written to be the most humane traditional hero of the group).

You're all going to gain corruption, you pretty much can't avoid it. But with a hero, another analogy might be Batman. Are you hoping to be the squeaky clean 1960s Batman? Or are you 1980s grimdark Dark Knight? Corruption transitions you from one to the other (and eventually turns you, I dunno, Two-Face? you might think you're a hero, but you ain't).

Edit: All the above said, jbear, since we're learning the game and the meaning of "Declare a Hunt" was perhaps not clear when you were choosing options, I'm OK with you swapping that feature for another, if you're not happy with its implications. It's just a small re-spec and I don't want to force you into it if you feel like its meaning is changing undearneth your feet.
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  #153  
Old Jul 2nd, 2023, 01:53 PM
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I see. 25 points does not seem like that many given I have chosen to transform every night and when I do I have a good chance of having to declare a hunt.

Let me have a look at the other options now that I understand the consequences of Corruption. On this first occaision I will attempt to Keep my Cool.

EDIT: moot point: I have failed the roll so a hunt it is. Andre is going dark.
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  #154  
Old Jul 2nd, 2023, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbear View Post
<dice roll - "Andre - Keep Your Cool to avoid a mindless hunt">
To be clear, I wouldn't want to call it 'mindless'. You need to be able to to play your character, and Andre is still Andre. But it definitely also needs to be a seperate state of affairs from "doing dangerous things" or "being transformed". I think it's single-minded and animalistic. It must be something like "letting the beast take over" to the greatest extent that it happens.

But on the other hand, you need to maintain agency. And there must be SOME way to stop the Hunt (even if it's something as extreme as "if I continue on this hunt, I will lose my life"). Like, if Andre was on the hunt for someone and Andre's mother stepped in and said "Andre, you can't harm him without going through me!" would Andre then 'go through her'?

I don't think we need to answer these questions now - the drama and the narrative can answer them, when and if they become important! I just don't want to paint ourselves into a corner, or to take away your flexibility as a player and writer.
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  #155  
Old Jul 3rd, 2023, 11:08 PM
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@Vis & Frog: Victor is prepared to diffuse the situation by taking it outside. 'Street cred' and all. As a player, I am fully ok with such an event, but I will give it a bit if anyone wants to interject a different course of action.
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  #156  
Old Jul 4th, 2023, 01:54 AM
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Cole doesn't exactly want to get dragged into a brawl with these two guys behind him. But if Victor thinks he can handle it outside, so be it. His main concern is, of course, that these guys are directly or indirectly working for his former boss. They name dropped el Diablo, for one thing...

So I'll get up a post and try to Figure Someone Out before the other shoe drops on our necks.
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  #157  
Old Jul 5th, 2023, 11:18 AM
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@Wynamoinen From Figure Someone Out.
QuoteOn a hit hold 2. ... Spend hold to ask questions.

My reading of this is that I don't have to ask all my questions now. I can hold onto one of them and wait until I have a little more information to work with (at least until the end of the scene). Is that correct?
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  #158  
Old Jul 5th, 2023, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hafrogman View Post
My reading of this is that I don't have to ask all my questions now. I can hold onto one of them and wait until I have a little more information to work with (at least until the end of the scene). Is that correct?
Yup, I agree. In general, holds need to be spent in the scene that they are generated. The Figure Someone Out move says that you need to be in the character's presence in order to spend the holds. But within those two constraints, you can spend them at whatever time you please.
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  #159  
Old Jul 5th, 2023, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Wynamoinen View Post
To be clear, I wouldn't want to call it 'mindless'. You need to be able to to play your character, and Andre is still Andre. But it definitely also needs to be a seperate state of affairs from "doing dangerous things" or "being transformed". I think it's single-minded and animalistic. It must be something like "letting the beast take over" to the greatest extent that it happens.

But on the other hand, you need to maintain agency. And there must be SOME way to stop the Hunt (even if it's something as extreme as "if I continue on this hunt, I will lose my life"). Like, if Andre was on the hunt for someone and Andre's mother stepped in and said "Andre, you can't harm him without going through me!" would Andre then 'go through her'?

I don't think we need to answer these questions now - the drama and the narrative can answer them, when and if they become important! I just don't want to paint ourselves into a corner, or to take away your flexibility as a player and writer.
Yeah, I hear you. Honestly, I'm already thinking: Okay, 25 points is a short career. I need to be thinking of the character who is going to mercifully put Andre down when he becomes the monster himself. Hopefully it gives him enough time to save his mum though"

With regards to an 8 being a hit: I wasn't quite sure about this. I thought I read that a 10+ was required for a benefit, so I didn't really know how to interpret the roll. My intentions was to use the roll to take the high ground and use it to my benefit to divide and conquer. An 8 felt like that wasn't a complete failure but not the massive success Andre thought it would be. Maybe I misread the text, so I will go back and look at it.

I am going into this with a very D&D-centric view of combat, but also knowing that is totally incorrect at the same time. So I'll take a bit to go and re-read and then take a run at my post in a day or so.
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  #160  
Old Jul 5th, 2023, 06:24 PM
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Combat mechanics in this system are very… non-mechanical. Fights that are resolved with one or two rolls are very common.

In all circumstances, 7 and up is a hit. 7-9 just gives less… usually either a drawback or tradeoff or fewer successful options. What really takes getting used to, though, is that rolls of 2-6 aren’t always failures! This is definitely a fail-forward system. Sometimes it means an action didn’t work. But sometimes the action does work but there are unintended consequences. AFAIAC, a low roll means I get to take an MC action, which will usually make things more complicated for y’all. In this system, the MC never rolls. The closest thing I get to rolling is to always take an action on a player roll of 2-6.
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  #161  
Old Jul 5th, 2023, 09:50 PM
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Very nice, hafrogman! Maybe Victor makes it out of the first scene alive. That would be swell! Probably won't get a chance to get a post up until the weekend.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jbear View Post
I am going into this with a very D&D-centric view of combat, {...}
It's ok. We all have our flaws. Wyn obviously sees something in you that is worth saving! We will show you the light


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynamoinen View Post
{...} What really takes getting used to, though, is that rolls of 2-6 aren’t always failures! This is definitely a fail-forward system. Sometimes it means an action didn’t work. But someone the action does work but there are unintended consequences. AFAIAC, a low roll means I get to take an MC action, which will usually make things more complicated for y’all. In this system, the MC never rolls. The closest thing I get to rolling is to always take an action on a player roll of 2-6.
The best part as MC in this system is that little twist. The player thinks they failed, but oh no. Not today. Today, not only did you succeed at what you were trying to do, but you succeeded at it SO well that it sucks for you. Favorite move by far just for the unexpected twist. And for not having to come up with some devious alternative. So, yeah, sometimes it helps with creative blocks too.


Just another note to all (that I think Wyn and/or any other veterans of PbtA will second): typically, the more dialogue in OOC in this system, the better. Keep the questions and ideas flowing! It really is at its best when it is as fully collaborative as possible. There are games where there can be an OOC post once every 6 months and everything works ... this probably wouldn't
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  #162  
Old Jul 11th, 2023, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Roekahs View Post
@Vis & Frog: Victor is prepared to diffuse the situation by taking it outside. 'Street cred' and all. As a player, I am fully ok with such an event, but I will give it a bit if anyone wants to interject a different course of action.
Based on the results of my Figure Someone Out I'm leaning towards Cole trying to make it up to be some big matter of honor how Lito is going to face you one on one, try and keep the other two out of it. Turn it into a fight instead of a curb-stomping.

Then again, Victor's Blood is just as bad as Cole's, so up to you if you wanna take it down that path...
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  #163  
Old Jul 11th, 2023, 10:04 PM
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Sounds like a plan to me, @frog. I think there is drama (which is good for the game) either fighting now or pushing it off until later. For me, from Victor's perspective, not selling in Anacostia anymore is a non-starter; he can't afford to lose the little income he still has (again his perspective, so an alternative plan could push him off that). If Cole can push for a more honorable fight, that would certainly be preferable, but I think Victor is probably prepared to take the beating here.

All that being said, I know Brassa has been a bit sidelined so far in the scene, so if @Vis has anything to try and wants to take this moment to jump front and center in the scene, go for it! I am unlikely to get to putting together a post for at least another day or so, so no rush on my end to have a little discussion on where we want this scene to go. If it is not fun for you both for Victor to get a beating and have to deal with that right away, another plan is great, but if that sounds like fun drama then I am all for it!
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  #164  
Old Jul 11th, 2023, 11:19 PM
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Sounds good. I'm totally fine with holding off a little to see if any better plans come along.
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  #165  
Old Jul 12th, 2023, 04:23 AM
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Sorry for the delay team, getting a post up tomorrow.
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