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Old 05-29-2019, 12:49 AM
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Alternity Style Roll Suggestions

I'm bring back Dark*Matter: The Hoffmann Institute hopefully sometime in July this year.
One little problem I'm looking for advice for. Both the old and new alternity dice mechanics use a control die (d20) and a situation die (+ or -, d4, d6, d8, d12, d20, 2d20, 3d20).

Turns out there is an OK way to add different dice say, 1d20 +1d6 like this:
[dice]1d20 1d6t = 182618186 [/dice]
Dice Roll:
1d20 18
1d6t 5 Running Total = 23


but subtracting the results is something altogether different. say 1d20 -1d6 like this:
[DICE]1d20 -1d6t[/DICE]
Dice roller error:
[dice]1d20 -1d6t[/dice] is a badly formed tag (please see the FAQ for help)


Anyone out there run been through something like this before and can help a buddy out? I've read through all the material here and I seem to be missing it. Help is greatly appreciated. I'd love to run this game in this format as a tip of a hit to the original game and creators.

Thanks! - Savoy
Warning: rolls have been deleted from this post.
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Last edited by savoylen; 05-29-2019 at 07:16 PM.
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Old 05-29-2019, 07:46 PM
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So this is the roller I found that works for Alternity elsewhere:

Quote:
d20-1step d20 = (6) -d4(2) = 4
The way it works is the 1d20 (control die) then its + or - a situation die (step die)
The steps are...
1step = 1d4
2step = 1d6
3step = 1d8
4step = 1d12
5step = 1d20
6step = 2d20
7step = 3d20

If there was a way to roll a die and then have the modifier also be a roll (plus or minus) it would be a simple matter to just type it out.

The forum and chat bots we use use the format I put in the quote.
On Fantasy Grounds, we just save die pools that match the steps (on both the plus and the minus side) in our trays.

I'm not sure how to handle this on my favorite site (here of course) so I'm open to all suggestions.
The just roll them separately and to the math yourself thought, has already occurred to me

For complete solution. see this next example:

Quote:
d20+1step score 10 Attempting to hack the dataslate d20 = (20) +d4(4) = 24 Stellar Success (Attempting to hack the dataslate)
In this example the situation die was +2 steps (harder is plus steps (mods) and easier is minus steps (mods), average success is higher than the number. excellence success is the score +5, and stellar success is score +10.

- Savy
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Last edited by savoylen; 05-29-2019 at 07:49 PM.
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Old 05-29-2019, 08:51 PM
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Sorry savoylen, at present there does not appear to be a method to subtract dice, unless Birched steps in and corrects me. The dice program here is already unwieldy and modded to excess, I believe there was some hope to correct that in either rewriting it entirely for a more streamlined program, or seeking something new... keep in mind this is my Swiss cheese memory informing me on a subject I have no real understanding of, merely a seat in the bleachers. You could make it your CS wish, but our volunteer coders have been very busy of late, I don't know how swiftly it could be done.

Sorry.
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Old 05-29-2019, 09:21 PM
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No worries... I was thinking that was the case but I wanted to be sure I wasn't missing something - I can be a bone-head with code sometimes!

Do you think it would be a system abuse to link to an external roller if I can find one that will do the job? The guys over at *** (another dice bot website for forum gaming) think they might be able to work something out.
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Old 05-29-2019, 09:29 PM
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No idea...
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Old 05-30-2019, 08:09 AM
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Hm. If there's a way to add rolls to dice, then you could probably simulate subtracting them by taking the die size then subtracting it plus an additional 1 from the total. 1d4-5 is essentially equal to -1d4, just that the bigger rolls lead to a higher result rather than the other way around. I'm not too familiar with the site, so I haven't seen many examples and there's probably a more elegant way to do this, but this would work for the time being.

1d20 xdn-(x+n)t, x being the number of dice being rolled and n being whatever step dice you're trying to use. Take the running total as your result.

Dice Alternity Dice Roll 1step:
1d20 3
1d4-5t (3)-5 Running Total = 1 Total = -2

Dice Alternity Dice Roll 2step:
1d20 13
1d6-7t (3)-7 Running Total = 9 Total = -4

Dice Alternity Dice Roll 3step:
1d20 2
1d8-9t (8)-9 Running Total = 1 Total = -1

Dice Alternity Dice Roll 4step:
1d20 7
1d12-13t (10)-13 Running Total = 4 Total = -3

Dice Alternity Dice Roll 5step:
1d20 11
1d20-21t (12)-21 Running Total = 2 Total = -9

Dice Alternity Dice Roll 6step:
1d20 19
2d20-42t (8, 16)-42 Running Total = 1 Total = -18

Dice Alternity Dice Roll 7step:
1d20 5
3d20-63t (18, 17, 15)-63 Running Total = -8 Total = -13


Hope this helps!
Warning: rolls have been deleted from this post.

Last edited by Niblooey; 05-30-2019 at 08:20 AM. Reason: Oh darn. Did the math wrong, forgot something
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Old 05-30-2019, 08:46 AM
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Nice work, Niblooey, but I think I liked your d4*-1 version better, it was cleaner. d4-5 will confuse people, and there'd be complaints about getting a low roll and getting stuck with the worst result.

From Niblooey's testing in the dice test thread:
Dice Roll:
1d20 20
(1d4*(-1))t ((3)*(-1)) Running Total = 17 Total = -3
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Old 05-30-2019, 01:33 PM
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Nice catch! Must've gotten it confused with another failed roll. Guess I should look a little more carefully, huh.
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Old 05-30-2019, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aethera View Post
Nice work, Niblooey, but I think I liked your d4*-1 version better, it was cleaner. d4-5 will confuse people, and there'd be complaints about getting a low roll and getting stuck with the worst result.

From Niblooey's testing in the dice test thread:
Dice * Roll:
1d20 20
(1d4*(-1))t ((3)*(-1)) Running Total = 17 Total = -3
Nice... thanks for the help and suggestion. The *-1 approach seems the easiest to understand/explain. I think I'll go that way - thanks! - Savoy
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Old 07-11-2019, 10:34 AM
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Thanks for the help with this... and there is what I ended up using for the game - which is rolling along quite nicely. Again - thanks for the tips!!

I'm dropping this here in case anyone else tries using Alternity-style rolls here.

- Savoy



Penalty Step Side -6 -5 -4 -3 -2 -1 0 +1 +2 +3 +4 +5 +6 Bonus Step Side
-2d20 -d20 -d12 -d8 -d6 -d4 d0 +d4 +d6 +d8 +d12 +d20 +2d20

To make it easy for you, I'll put the code used for each step in the table below so you don't have to guess on the code. AND when we get an actual Alternity roller function added to the site, I'll let you know. (I'm an optimist in addition to being a great knife thrower.)

Difficulty Die Modifier Step DICE Tag Code
Now You"re just showing off +2d20 Step 6 1d20 2d20t
Piece of cake +d20 Step 5 1d20 1d20t
Extremely easy +d12 Step 4 1d20 1d12t
Very easy +d8 Step 3 1d20 1d8t
Easy +d6 Step 2 1d20 1d6t
Moderately easy +d4 Step 1 1d20 1d4t
Ordinary Step 0 1d20
Moderately hard d4 Step -1 1d20 (1d4*(-1))t
Hard d6 Step -2 1d20 (1d6*(-1))t
Very hard d8 Step -3 1d20 (1d8*(-1))t
Extremely hard d12 Step -4 1d20 (1d12*(-1))t
Brutal d20 Step -5 1d20 (1d20*(-1))t
Insane -2d20 Step -6 1d20 (2d20*(-1))t

OR put another way, you can look at it like this:

Penalty Step Side -6 -5 -4 -3 -2 -1 0 +1 +2 +3 +4 +5 +6 Bonus Step Side
-2d20 -d20 -d12 -d8 -d6 -d4 d0 +d4 +d6 +d8 +d12 +d20 +2d20
[DlCE] 1d20 (2d20*(-1))t 1d20 (1d20*(-1))t 1d20 (1d12*(-1))t 1d8*(-1))t 1d20 (1d6*(-1))t 1d20 (1d4*(-1))t 1d20 1d20 1d4t 1d20 1d6t 1d20 1d8t 1d20 1d12t 1d20 1d20t 1d20 2d20t [/DlCE ]
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