Survey: As A DM On RPGX Do You Prefer Inline Rolling Or Separate Dice Thread? - RPG Crossing
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View Poll Results: How do you prefer dice?
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Inline All The Way!
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8 25.81%
Separate Threads
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6 19.35%
Separate Threads And No Editing Dice Posts
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11 35.48%
Whatever Is Easiest
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5 16.13%
They can Roll at home or make up a number for all I care.
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0 0%
Who needs Dice?
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1 3.23%
Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old Nov 12th, 2019, 05:34 PM
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Survey: As A DM On RPGX Do You Prefer Inline Rolling Or Separate Dice Thread?

The code has changed over the years and things are more secure, no doubt. But I'm still stuck on no inline rolling and largely no editing dice posts. It's really an eyesore to have a red warning flag scarring my game thread, and for people who don't label their rolls, editing dice posts could still elicit falsified labelling.

Not that anyone would falsify labels, and everyone is obviously so masterful at dice code that there is never a blunder so there's no chance of red flags marring the game thread.

Either way, this isn't about judgment, everyone has their own perspective and we're all entitled to it. This is a request for you to share your perspective and the reasons you ascribe to whichever method you prefer.

Thank you
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Old Nov 12th, 2019, 09:16 PM
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I voted for 'Separate with no Editing dice pools,' but it's mainly to keep the clutter, and yes, the eventual red bar from marring the Game Thread. In certain situations, I'll have the players put it in a spoiler in their posts, but that is rare. That being said, if someone wishes only to do Inline dice rolling, then all I would ask is for them to put a spoiler around it or use inum.
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Old Nov 12th, 2019, 11:23 PM
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I roll in secret tags in an OOC FIELDSET at the end of my posts unless I need the result before I post.

As a GM I roll in the dice thread before every post as there's always something I need to clear up before posting.

I label all my dice rolls, I preview my code, and I rarely edit, why add to my post count unless I have to?

I do check the edit logs of every edit on posts containing rolls and edits. Trust but verify they say!
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Old Nov 13th, 2019, 08:07 AM
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As a player, I always use tabletop code to place my rolls in my game post. So my character
Dice Attack:
1d20+7sch16 (15)+7 Total = 22
shoots her bow. If you mess up your code, you can correct it with no red flags. It's only if you do the code properly and then change it that you get a problem. If I were to do proper code, but forget a modifier or put in the wrong target number, I'd just alert the GM and let him adjudicate the roll based on the proper modifiers and target. No need to ever edit a properly coded dice roll. Even if you throw the wrong die, you can just throw the right one and ignore the erroneous roll.

As a GM, I do all my rolls in secret in the dice thread and then unsecret them when the post is up with a link to the dice post in the game post. This is primarily so I can narrate the scene knowing who hits and who misses.

All Dice rolls should be labeled with modifiers spelled out, as in:
Dice Thug #3 attacks Player A under partial cover, -2:
1d20+3-2sch16 (11)+3-2 Total = 12
Attack Roll.

I haven't had any dice roll edits yet, but if I did, I'd ask for an entirely new roll in the dice thread. Honestly, in four years on the site I have only seen two or three dice roll edits resulting in the red flag. I understand it doesn't look neat, but really it doesn't bother me that much when I do see it. Humans make mistakes.

NOTE: I voted "Whatever is easiest" to include whatever the player prefers. The only thing I ask is that game post dice rolls be enclosed in tabletop text ("tt") or a spoiler button in OOC.
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Last edited by ruffdove; Nov 13th, 2019 at 08:12 AM.
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Old Nov 15th, 2019, 03:12 AM
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I realize that to many this isn't something to even be concerned with. But I'm trying to get at least a small glimpse into what players on the site prefer and I'd really enjoy seeing some explanations in to accompany a vote.

I wasn't here when the site first opened, but not long after it opened I arrived. The dice code was still fresh and it wasn't super secure. It could be edited or deleted without penalty. Things evolved soon enough and securities increased, but many people had taken hold of a policy of no editing dice posts, and there weren't the fancy inum, tt, spoilerbutton, whatever you would use to hide dice. So to avoid having lines and lines of dice code in a game thread, people started designating threads specifically to rolling dice, or even private threads where dice could be rolled as well as ooc with the DM.

As we have grown as a site and thanks to the ingenuity of the code monkeys, things are so much more secure on this site. It's pretty safe now to be able to roll dice inline and hide them in inum, tt, or spoilerbutton and post around it without issue.

However, part of the security measures means that if the dice are tampered with in any way, intentionally or unintentionally, maybe you previewed a post with dice in it, maybe you were editing some text and accidentally caught up some prerolled dice code into a cut/paste and moved the code around.. I don't even know all the ways that would trigger an error or a deleted dice flag, but I know that it is a reasonable chance that they can be evoked.

Many people would prefer to keep the dice out of the game thread. Maybe they are from the old school and it is just how things are done. Maybe the thought of having red flags of deleted dice in a game thread is just unappealing to some people, I know it is for me. Whatever the reasons, there appear to be three camps of players on site: 1) No dice in the game thread, 2) Do everything in the game thread, 3) People that just don't care and want to play however people are comfortable doing it.

I am someone who comes from an old school mindset with habits leftover from old, but also I am fastidious about the tidiness of my game threads and I feel that the red flags or error dice are like bleeding wounds on the page. But my adherence to these habits are causing friction with people who are now accustomed to always rolling in the same post that they compose their game post in. I can't imagine how that would be fun to do or how it would be any less work to roll and post and edit and post and edit and make corrections/addendums vs just rolling in a separate thread and composing in a word doc, then copy pasting the finished product.

Whatever, we all have our preferences. I don't really have any judgment for either of them I just am trying to get a better handle on what people's preferences are site wide. I tend to keep to myself so I wonder how out of touch I am with the rest of the users here. So say hello and give us a snippet about your take on the matter.

Thanks!
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Old Nov 15th, 2019, 04:36 PM
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I voted or a separate thread for dice rolling simply because it reduces the clutter of a main thread and doesn't take away from the players if they happen to be engrossed in the story as it's playing along.
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Old Nov 15th, 2019, 05:03 PM
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As a player, I like having all of my rolls inline in an OOC section with spoiler buttons. It keeps the clutter out of the way, the rolls easily accessible, and able to reference. I do, however, always use the dice* so that I can label my rolls - not only for the dm but also my own reference.

As a DM, I tell people to do whatever they prefer. I have a dice thread and allow inline rolling as long as it is behind spoilers. I even allow quick dice rolls in a discord channel that we have. Those are usually only used if I need one of them to make a quick save for something and they don't have time or access to get on the forum - or for flavor rolls (which, they seem to do more of now that I have a dice roller in our channel.)

As far as them possibly cheating... I have 4 kids at home, I don't need to babysit adults also. I'm far more concerned with the story-telling aspect than I am mechanics. If anything, fudging a die just results in a missed opportunity for an interesting or amusing post. If it became an obvious issue, I would speak to them about it, but I can't say that I've ever suspected someone of doing that. I suppose I might not have been looking hard either, though.
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Old Nov 16th, 2019, 04:00 PM
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I like dice roll threads best WHEN I'm not obligated to link results in the main thread. Otherwise, i'd prefer to roll in the main thread and add the result in edits. The reason is that it's really frustrating to copy/paste links on my touchpad laptop or phone. With a regular mouse, it's no issue, but I would almost always post and craft posts on either my laptop or phone and it was just a pain in the tuchus.
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Old Nov 16th, 2019, 06:29 PM
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Novitiate here with a question.

I surmise from reading this thread—as opposed to actual experience—that as a GM there is a way to view the edit history of a post, so if a player posted dice rolls in his or her in-character post, the GM could tell if there was cheating that involved editing? Or is that an imperfect method? Might there still be ways to cheat?
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Old Nov 17th, 2019, 02:02 AM
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It's not really about cheating. That was just something that cropped up back in like 2003-2008, I dunno. This site used to be called dndonlinegames.com and people were new at coding the site. I have no idea if you could view edit history of posts at that time. A lot of these security measures have evolved to deal with issues that cropped up over time.

All that's changed now. This site is locked down. If you look at your dice code inappropriately now, you will get a red flag. (kidding)

However, those times led to some habits and aesthetic preferences that, for many, still stand.

It seems like many don't know what I am talking about, and don't really care if there are dice in the game thread. That's fine.. I've still got my dndonlinegames.com t-shirt, so I will just do what I do.
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Old Nov 17th, 2019, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordo View Post
Novitiate here with a question.

I surmise from reading this thread—as opposed to actual experience—that as a GM there is a way to view the edit history of a post, so if a player posted dice rolls in his or her in-character post, the GM could tell if there was cheating that involved editing? Or is that an imperfect method? Might there still be ways to cheat?
Just like in real life, there are folks who find ways to cheat on dice rolls. In the older days of the site, it was a bit easier to find ways to do this, and in the older days of the site, the code was also a bit more finicky and less forgiving of being able to post, edit, etc, a post with dice rolls in it.

Things have changed over the years: the site has become easier to use, with more tools to use to accomplish formatting, and the code has gotten better and less picky, so there are fewer errors you can make when editing/formatting a code with dice rolls. In addition, the majority of methods people used to circumvent a poor roll have been closed too.

So yes, a GM can view post history. That doesn't necessarily spot a dedicated cheater (after all, a good cheater knows that you can look at the post history, and has a cheat for that). I would never go out and say that there is no way to cheat the system here: Every time someone invents an unbreakable X, someone else is already working on a hack to break it. We did the same with our dice at the table, too... I know a lot of ways to alter a physical die, after years of playing with folks back in the 70's and 80's.

As a GM, the bottom line is that if you believe a player is not "playing" (and instead, cheating), it's all about the communication. Talk to them, explain your side/concern/views, and make a decision about the situation.
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Old Nov 17th, 2019, 07:09 PM
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I just wanted to add to my post above that my preference for keeping dice rolls in a dice thread is more about keeping the Game Thread clean. I occasionally go through and read a game thread occasionally, and the red flag of doom is alway's distracting. I try to make my games easy to read with links to the next thread as I keep in mind that others might want to read my game at some later date.
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Old Nov 17th, 2019, 08:59 PM
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I prefer rolls to take place in the dice thread in unedited posts because I prefer that my players use the results of said roll and work them into their game post in a creative fashion because that's what I try to do. That being said I also roll in the game thread sometimes when the results of that roll don't influence my game post, but instead are for the DM to use in their update.

My problem with letting people roll in the game thread (red tags aside because those are definitely unsightly) is I expect them to adhere to proper formatting and at least bury them in a TT tag, and if they don't the game thread looks sloppy.

Rolling dice that affect your post in the post is a waste of good RP possibilities. I provide enemy AC values in my game spreadsheet, so there's no reason to write "I swing my sword at the orc" because if you prerolled you'd know if your attack was successful or not. Even with most skill rolls I've likely provided a DC already, or they could ask and I might tell them. You can't always tell if your skill was successful, but it's usually pretty obvious when you've failed. Write about that failure.
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Old Nov 18th, 2019, 06:53 AM
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Any method that prevents players from Cheating.
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Old Nov 18th, 2019, 01:15 PM
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I haven't had the time to read through everything to get a feel for what peoples' opinions are. I voted "separate threads", because that seems to work well enough. But I do both that and in-game-post dice, depending on my roll. As a player, I prefer to write out my post, determining intended actions and whatnot, and then once the post is written I like to include the dice at the bottom. This has some advantages for me, because (in combat in particular) it can be tempting to roll a die and possibly determine actions based on results. For instance, If you roll an attack and get a 15 while prepping a post, and you know that there are two foes with ACs 12 and 17, you may write your post to be attacking the lower-AC foe rather than the higher-AC one. I try not to let this metagaming influence my writing, but it's tough. Better for me to predetermine actions and not let me change my mind afterwards. But it has its problems-- e.g. sometimes it's fun to include flavor text based on the result of the die roll, describing an obvious massive success or crippling failure.

As a DM (since that's what this thread is about), I'm okay with either. I no longer mind if a post with dice rolls is edited so long as it's not edited in a way that modifies the die roll. If that happens, I'll either ask the player to re-roll, or I'll roll it myself. I always include a dice-rolling thread for people that prefer to post that way. For my own DM posts, I always roll dice first and write the narrative afterwards. It helps me make things as challenging or easy for the party as possible, based on what's best for the narrative. But it's always done in a secret thread, away from players' prying eyes.
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