build new chars here

[Fil kearney]

AXE

Yours is the wierdest to play with. Simply because to my knowledge, no one has ever allowed race advancemnt on both sides of the gestlat, much less allowing an extra race to stack on top of a second.... so I appreciate your patience while we work our way through how this works.

Now, I don't use standard mnster advancemnt rules.. I use Frank and K's monster revision rules... I"m not making you find the PDF; I will do the work ad show you what it makes. we can switch to something more traditional if you wish.
1. we determine ECL by CR.. unless it's a really awesome class like the astral deva, then it's CR+2... Templates are the normal cost in levels.

SO,
1/2 dragon: 3LA
stoechild ECL 3 (just a judgement call.. nothing is written anywhere for this)
Stonegiant ECL 8
Astraldeva ECL 16

This would mean 1/2dragon2/stonechild3/stonegiant8/x1//astraldeva14(of16)

The Frank and K method figures stats against the elite array, rounding odd numbers down...
STAT SToneChiLD SToneGIant AStralDEva
15 18-15=4 27-15=12 22-15=6
14 10-10=0 15-13=2 18-13=4
13 18-14=4 19-14=4 18-08=10
10 12-13=0 10-08=2 18-10=8
10 10-10=0 12-10=2 18-10=8
08 08-08=0 11-10=0 20-14=6

STAT 1/2DR STCH STGI ASDE TOTAL
STR= 08 04 12 06 +30
DEX= 00 00 02 04 +6
CON= 02 04 02 10 +18
INT= 02 00 02 08 +12
WIS= 00 00 02 08 +10
CHA= 02 00 00 06 +8


Here's the progression for astral deva
full BAB , all good saves, all HD are converted to d6's (total 16d6) skills 6+int/level
01 .0 CL 0 NAC darkvision 60, low light vision
02 +1CL +1NAC protective aura
03 +1CL +1NAC 30' fly clumsy, 1/day—aid, continual flame, detect evil, discern lies, invisibility (self only)
04 +1CL +1NAC uncanny dodge, 1/day: cure light wound, see invisible
05 0 CL +1NAC resistance to acid 5 and cold 5, +4 vs. petrification, resistance to electricity 5 and fire 5
06 +1CL +1NAC 2/day: cure light wound, see invisible
07 +1CL +1NAC 3/day—aid, continual flame, detect evil, discern lies, invisibility (self only), remove disease, remove fear
08 +1CL +1NAC 60' fly average, 3/day: cure light wound, see invisible
09 0 CL +1NAC change shape
10 +1CL +1NAC stun 4/day: cure light wound, see invisible
11 +1CL +1NAC immunity to acid, cold, and petrification, resistance to electricity 10 and fire 10, spell resistance 5/level here forward
12 +1CL +1NAC tongues, 5/day: cure light wound, see invisible
13 0 CL +1NAC 100' fly good, At will—aid, continual flame, detect evil, discern lies, dispel evil, dispel magic, holy aura, holy smite, holy word, invisibility (self only), plane shift, remove curse, remove disease, remove fear
14 +1CL +1NAC DR 10/evil, 6/day: cure light wound, see invisible
15 +1CL +1NAC 1/day blade barrier, heal
16 +1CL +1NAC 7/day: cure light wound, see invisible

So you've got up to 14th level right now.. only missing th e per day blade barrier and heal, 2 caster levels (so yer 1th right now), 2 natural ac, 10 points of SR, and 1 extra use of see invisible and cure light wounds.

er, I don't htink I left anythin out.

Plus full stonechild stuff and stone giant stuff.

That free level on the giant side could be spent an prc you want... hulking hurler if you wish, or a cleric PrC... I'd recommend master thrower to get ranged trip. . though you can't progress cleric casting more than once per level.

Due to the enourmous amount of HD a cr 8 giant has, they are all converted to d12's. 8d12 + 3d8 is better than 14d6... we max yer hitpoints or the fun of it... so that would be
120 HP before con mod which is a min of 16 before adding pont by. (base 8 plus 18) would be a minimum of 104 con hp + base 120 = 224... pretty respecatble before adding point buy and level ups.. you'll probably be around 300. good tank.

size large good flight 100', spells, SLA, good stats, CL12 cleric casting, full bab perfct saves immunities and DR. nice.

This making sense? I think this guy is a winner. just need to figger out what you want to focus your attacks and feats towards... ranged stuff, casting, or melee... you don't even need DMM!


.

[DaveTheMagicWease]

Originally Posted by roaddog41

wow Dave you lost me on alot of that... and there is no way swordsage is a better monk... while they have similar attack skills..... Monk has so many defensive and immunities... that Im gonna stick with monk. Besides it fits the concept which is always more important to me....



You lost me form here on out.

Basically I want to boost her AC as much as possible... and then use the maneuvers to get her from point to point as quickly as possible..... and really take advantage of her superior number of attacks to wear away at opponents... kind of like a smoke screen type character that is all over the field defending the spellcasters that are the real damage output.

Okay, as an example:

A 14th level Swordsage has 19 maneuvers known and 9 readied. As a baseline that's 2 of each level, but with maneuver swaps factored in you end up of 3 at each level. So you can easily fill your readied slots with 3 7th level maneuvers, 3 6th level and 3 5th level.

However, if you want to ready any low level maneuvers (counters in particular tend to be low level, but scale very well) then you have to sacrifice the ability to ready your more powerful high level maneuvers.

Now, add even a single level of Warblade to the other side of the gestalt - Warblade gets 3 readied maneuvers, so you can easily use that to ready all three of the Diamond Mind counters which effectively frees up 3 readied maneuver slots for the Swordsage (altho if you take Warblade I'd also recommend a look at Wall of Blades and Iron Heart Surge).

As an added bonus, those Warblade maneuvers count towards meeting prerequisites for maneuvers chosen on your Swordsage side (a single classed ToB character tends to have to focus on a limited number of disciplines - Warblades can do 2, 3 at a push, Swordsage can probably stretch to 4 on his own).

Re: boosting AC - the best counters are actually, imho, the ones that bypass AC. Wall of Blades for instance (it's great for use against touch attacks, although a Monk won't have to worry too much about that), Counter Charge stops the attack before they even get to roll an attack, One With Shadow gives a miss chance, etc. Not to say you shouldn't have a high AC, just that you should have more as well.

It also sounds like the Gloom Razor feat (ToB p. 35) would fit what you're looking for, as would the Invisible Fist Monk from Exemplars of Evil (trade Evasion for immediate action invisibility - and since you can get evasion from Swordsage anyway I'd definitely make the trade).

As for being "all over the field" - the Shadow Jaunt/Stride/Blink maneuvers would fit the bill, but I would also have a look at the Telflammar Shadowlord PrC in Unapproachable East - lots of shadowy teleporting tricks (I'd suggest use the Shadow-Walker template in the same book to qualify.for it and then buy off the LA). If you can fit it in, 1 or 2 levels of Totemist (Magic of Incarnum) could also give you a short ranged Dim Door at will (the Blink Shirt soulmeld, bound to the totem ideally), and later on you can use a feat to open up the Shoulder Chakra (then use Phase Cloak for at-will etherealness).

Shadow-Walker would also have the advantage of giving you darkness as an SLA - which lets you qualify for a variety of cool feats in Drow of the Underdark.

[Amy]

Originally Posted by Fil kearney

AXE

Miraculously, I followed most of that.

Except hit points. Can anyone walk me through that?

Thanks

[roaddog41]

I think I followed alot of that.... but some of it confuses me.... in particular

Originally Posted by Fil

Here's an idea:
swordsage5/enlightenedfist9/shadowsunninja6 // monk5/swordsage+1/shadowsunninja4/swordsage+5/enlightenedfist+1/swordsage+4

swordsage maneuvers + spells IL20 (in fact, a little extra, since shadow sun adds some extra)
FULL monk ability progression
FULL enlightened fist advancement
FULL shadow sun nnja advancement

worth considering. you could replace any of that with shadowdancer, but you'll sacrefice either monk progression or swordsage maneuver/spells.
or I can take a hike. lemme know.

how would taking 5 monk levels give me the full monk ability progression??? does that include unarmed damage and the +40 to movement?

The spells really don't interest me all that much... I don't mind being a pure melee(with maneuvers).... Note Im not really configuring for damage here.... more like configuring for annoyance and the smokescreen job. Like a meatshield only I use the combination of the monk/swordsage AC buffs and the maneuvers... in particular the counters to keep melee opponents away.
All high saves combined with 17 ranks in concentration and the ability to substitute that occasionally should keep me free from most spells. Heck I have spell resistance as a monk.
Now I have never heard of some of these PrCs... but if they are gonna keep the monk abilities the same while giving me more maneuvers... and some more dimension door stuff Im all for it. Right now I have the monks abundant step and the shadow dancer's shadow jump. Worst comes to worst I can step into Rock's shadow and jump into the enemies shadow.... a fun flanking maneuver.

[DaveTheMagicWease]

Enlightened Fist (Complete Arcane iirc) and Shadow Sun Ninja (ToB) both advance Monk abilities. I'm pretty sure Enlightened Fist advances the speed bonus, not sure if SSN does. But anyway, that's where the monk progression is coming from.

Errr... however, something that has occurred to me might be a problem - Gwyn permanently sheds bright daylight in a 180 ft. radius, and that counters just about every darkness spell ever printed.

So, if you do want to do something that relies on being in darkness then you will need some way of dealing with that (I can't actually turn it off without dismissing half my buff spells).

EDIT - Actually, a Rod of Invisible Spell should do the trick, since I can See Invisible I still get the benefits of the bright light without it ruining the entire party's stealth ability.

So, nevermind me, carry on.

[Amy]

Rock can throw you a hella distance... If we use the Stone Giant's range that's 180 feet. But wait... you have to weigh less than 6 tons...

EDIT: Also, do I get five feats for the Astral Deva progression? The Astral Deva has five feats...

[Amy]

RockFoot AllKiller (name subject to slight change)

Stats:
Str: 47
Dex: 20
Con: 38
Int: 20
Wis: 18
Cha: 20

F/R/W: 28/19/18
HP: 288 (really not sure of this)
AC: 42 (no armor yet)

Special Abilities:
Change Shape
Stun
Tongues
Protective Aura
Magic Stone
Low Light Vision
Darkvision 60'

Feats:

01 Feat: Improved Unarmed Strike
03 Feat: Improved Grapple
06 Feat: Improved Rock Hurling
09 Feat: Two-Hand Hurl Trick: Meteor Strike (+ x2 str bonus)
12 Feat: Two-Hand Hurl Trick: Overburdened Heave (weapon up to two sizes larger or medium load)

Uncanny Dodge (deva)
Blind Fighting (StoneChild)
Throw Anything, Catch Weapon, Really Throw Anything (Hulking Hurler)
Rock Throwing, Rock Catching (Stone Giant)

At Will Powers:
Aid, continual flame, detect evil, discern lies (DC 19), dispel evil (DC 20), dispel magic, holy aura (DC 23), holy smite (DC 19), holy word (DC 22), invisibility (self only), plane shift (DC 22), remove curse (DC 18), remove disease (DC 18), remove fear (DC 16);

6/day Powers:
Cure light wounds (DC 16), see invisibility

DR: 10/evil, Resistance to electricity/10

Immunities: Acid, cold, petrification, sleep, paralysis, fire, poison

Skill Points: 187

[Fil kearney]

Dog: dave is correct, but the enlightened fist requires casting.. if yer not gonna take any spells then you'd need to consider a diferent build.
H are maxed each ldve.

Axe... looking good. you've got SR of 20 right now, 25 at level 15 and 30 at level 16. since HP are maxed, it was a matter of which side of the gestalt would allow for better HP progession... I had to fudge the hd per level for both the giat and the deva... and it falls n the giant's favor with 8d6 supported by 3d8 from the stonechild... both outweig the deva's modified d6's.


Dave, I can't believe you're playing a character that is a perpetual beacon of light.. you realize EVERY radom encounter in a 10 mile radius is gonna be drawn to you...

[Amy]

This is the other side of the Gestalt, with HD included. You pushed the Giant HD to 12. The half dragon pushes the others up one die (max 12) from d8 (stonechild) and d10 (hulking hurler). I started off with a level of Stone Giant (for size) then StoneChild (for half-elemental) and then Half Dragon (for half-dragon).

D12 01 Stone Giant – +11 Natural Armor, Rock Throwing, Rock Catching
0 02 StoneChild - Feat: Improved Grapple, Magic Stone 1/day
0 03 Half Dragon – +4Natural armor, claw/claw/bite (d6/d6/d8), fly at 2x land speed
D10 04 StoneChild – Magic Stone 2/day
0 05 Half Dragon – Breath weapon, immunity to sleep/paralysis/fire
D10 05 StoneChild – Blind fight, +4 natural armor, Magic Stone 3/day
D12 07 Hulking Hurler – Throw Anything, Catch Weapon, Really Throw Anything
D12 08 Stone Giant
D12 09 Stone Giant
D12 10 Stone Giant
D12 11 Stone Giant
D12 12 Stone Giant
D12 13 Stone Giant
D12 14 Stone Giant

[Fil kearney]

That works for me... hmm.. I can't shake the feeling something is missing though...
probably because it's so straight forward.

oh, regardig the feats.. deva had 5 because of the 12 hit dice... so fill ot yer feats, skills and gear ad yer done.

Now I need to figger out how to put you in the mix.

[Ascendant]

Fil - can I get an answer on the "Saves" question I asked before? Namely, does this psychic warrior/soulknife hybrid you've created use Soulknife or Psywarrior base saves?

Also, how much XP do we start off with, exactly? I'm considering some kind of possible LA buyoff, so the exact number kind of matters.

Thanks a lot for accepting me into the game.

[Fil kearney]

Originally Posted by Ascendant

Fil - can I get an answer on the "Saves" question I asked before? Namely, does this psychic warrior/soulknife hybrid you've created use Soulknife or Psywarrior base saves?

Also, how much XP do we start off with, exactly? I'm considering some kind of possible LA buyoff, so the exact number kind of matters.

I am going to assume you missed this response from above to your original questions:

Originally Posted by Fil kearney

ASCENDANT

A) take soulknife.
B) There are no racial prereqs for feat or PrC's unless it makes no logical sense. So enjoy eternal blade as you wish.
C) Dave put it right for LA buyoff... Yer all starting with 96310xp... so you can be level 14 with one LA bought off for 3k, or you can be 13th level with 3LA bought off. LA oly takes one side of gestalt... which is a bit annoying because your build will shift around if you use LA buyoff... but whatever. you can take it or leave it.

Be welcome to put a build forward, and if you don't mind some tweaking, we can all have some fun for you rbenefit.

A meant to use the soulknife saves, since you prefer them.
B verifies eternal blade can be taken by anyone.
C answered your xp question before asking it... am I good or what?

[Ascendant]

Seriously? With my name in bold and underlined and caps, I missed that?

Man, maybe I need my eyes checked. But thanks. I'll have a basic build idea up soon . . .

[Fil kearney]

It's okay. I haven't found anything really worth mocking you openly for yet.

[Embrodak]

OK, Going Elf

Ranger (Urban Variant)
Warlock

Taking 5 levels of the Dragon Marked Heir Prestige Class.


Can you mix which "Side" takes the levels in the Prestige Class.

Say can he be.

Ranger 12/Dragon Marked Heir 2
Warlock 11/Dragon Marked Heir 3 (Levels 3-5)